Is it possible to steal a modern day car...

Zed_Steve

Senior member
Birmingham
..by bypassing all of the anti theft devices it has fitted, then driving off after hotwiring it?

The reason i ask is that i was talking to a friend recently, who told me he had his car stolen one night after leaving it on a public carpark in a nearby town he visited. He reported it to the police, who not long afterwards had found it burnt out a few miles away. Seemingly it had been broken into and driven off, then torched.
I found this quite surprising as i thought that anti theft devices on todays cars were virtually impossible to bypass. The car in question was a Vauxhall Insignia.

Thoughts??
 
maybe vauxhall are not as intelligent, i would be be suprised thought, i thought with out keys it would be be impossible
 
 Nothing is impossible but it looks like even the oldest have Cat 1. Would be a lot of effort and skill to bypass this lot only to then burn it out. My money would be on keys being used. I'd not be surprised if people kept quiet if they lost a key and the car was later stolen or left keys in it.

Category 1:

Combined alarm and immobiliser system with self-powered siren and two point engine immobilisation system. Category 1 systems meet Thatcham's toughest testing criteria. The category usually specified by car insurers.

Basic Features:

Alarm system
Flashes indicators when alarm operates
Battery backup siren
Automatic arming of immobiliser
Minimum 2 circuit immobilization i.e. Fuel pump & starter motor.
Anti scan anti grab remote controls
All black wiring
Anti tamper control box
Automatic arming
Thatcham approval number



 
 
7 years in the insurance business tells me that there is no way that insignia was taken without the keys, im so confident in this that im willing to call your friend a lier if he says the keys are with him!

most people use this excuse when they have got drunk, got into the car crashed and then run home and called the police to say it was stolen.
 
Glad an industry insider holds the same view. I was being more polite.
Def lost or left keys in it and would be good to just ask the person to show you his full set of master and any valet keys.

Low loaders, etc are a way but you don't do that to unload it down the road and burn it....
 
Nova2k7 said:
7 years in the insurance business tells me that there is no way that insignia was taken without the keys, im so confident in this that im willing to call your friend a lier if he says the keys are with him!

so the police would also know the keys must have been used

what would the insurers thoughts be on a pay out
 
Thought you either got car jacked or keys stolen from the house. Not heard of any other way of getting a car in the last few years (ignoring the loaders and very expensive cars of course that disappear to the MIddle East).
 
Squeaky Beckham's X5 was taken without keys using a laptop a few years ago, and it ended up being used as official Macedonian Government transport :rofl:

I'm not sure if the Insignia is vulnerable to the method but it has to be a theoretical yes. Did a sophisticated East European gang target a Vauxhall to burn it out down the road? Not a chance, keys were used - your mate is telling big fat porkies :thumbsdown:
 
cj10jeeper said:
Glad an industry insider holds the same view. I was being more polite.
Def lost or left keys in it and would be good to just ask the person to show you his full set of master and any valet keys.

Low loaders, etc are a way but you don't do that to unload it down the road and burn it....

+1

Have there been any bank robberies near by... :lol: could this be the remains of the getaway car?! Er, probables not :lol:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hmmm... seems my suspicions have been born true based on the responses. Even the police are dubious (not surprisingly) about his claim when he reported it stolen, and his explanation. Unhappy as he felt he was being interrogated when they questioned him.

Being a friend i will keep things polite, ask him for an update, and whether they requested him to produce all keys.
 
I believe that where the desire to steal something is strong then there is way to do it, however opportunity theft is something completely different and requires no planning or expenditure.

An example of this would be someone leaving the ignition keys on the passenger seat and wondering why the car wasn't there when you get back to it :o
 
If Iran can remote patch into a american stealth million $ un-maned plane and land it. Then I'm confident your modern day thief can nick any car that is parked up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
What about this then?

stolen.jpg


Not sure how accurate it is, if it applies to later models, or if it's even true, but have read briefly about it on http://www.babybmw.net also.
 
There is software out there that can open cars from outside the house if the keys are within range of a criminals laptop.A work colleague had his car opened on his drive and his laptop stolen and he didn't know about it until the next morning.The Police confirmed that this is now a common type of theft.He was lucky that they didn't know that they could've started it up and driven it away too as it had keyless entry and start.Scary stuff.
 
bigshurv said:
There is software out there that can open cars from outside the house if the keys are within range of a criminals laptop.A work colleague had his car opened on his drive and his laptop stolen and he didn't know about it until the next morning.The Police confirmed that this is now a common type of theft.He was lucky that they didn't know that they could've started it up and driven it away too as it had keyless entry and start.Scary stuff.


That's interesting and at the same time scary stuff.
 
Many years ago. My father had his old yellow Toyota pickup stolen from a military base. Police were called. About ten minutes after the police show up. My fathers truck pulls into the car park. Seems that against all odds. Another guy that owned the same year and color toyota truck as my fathers was also at that base at the same time. And had parked in the same row of the car park. Turns out that each set of keys operated both trucks. The guy who drove off just by chance saw a few items that weren't his and figured out it wasn't his truck. And came back to the base. In the end. Everyone including the police had a big laugh.
 
Its funny, my friend was at work and had a 54 plate fusion. There was an identical car parked in the car park and thought it was his it wouldn't open with the immobiliser but put the key in and it opened. Got in and the car was a sh1t tip and thought this isnt mine... and they say all keys now a days are lazer cut.

Its funny a property I lived in at uni, I could open the door with my key from home which is 130 miles north of my rented property. Was quite convenient because they were on different keys so if I lost one then I would still be able to get in! lol

I know its the movies but you just haev to watch Oceans 11,12,13 or gone in 60 seconds professional criminals can do anything they want.
 
Hi all

Here’s my basic technical explanation.

You may or may not be aware that BMW can remotely unlock the E89 (text message) and that the keys you are using are using RfID (somewhat like the chip device in your Credit Card)

I have played around with Tech security over the years (Ethically) and also recently developed an RfID solution for my business. I can confirm it is in fact relatively easy for the technically minded to crack car security if they know how to. However in this case I do not feel that is the explanation, as crackers using this tech are simply not interested in Vauxhalls, more £100K vehicles.

Easy as 1 2 3 4
Scan
Probe
Attack
Result

It’s relatively easy to scan the neighbourhood to intercept both text messages as well as wireless transmissions, whether for networking or for a range of other radio frequencies including mobile telephones, DECT and standard mobiles, or for radio frequencies covering the RfID technology currently used in various security equipment or for key systems that switch off alarms and open doors.

For example, when Beckams X5 was stolen, they hacked a Texas Instruments chip using only a laptop, with an antenna and scanner software to itemise the local RfID chip that controlled the Beemer. It really wasn’t that difficult. The result was that Texas Instruments finally introduced encryption (128 bit)

RfID can be passive or active, by using the tags in ignition systems (at 40 bit) all that was required was to be within vicinity of the transponder (RfID tag in the key or the ignition system) and crack the code, which used to take about 15 minutes using a program designed for the task at hand, but this is now approx 20 to 30 secs.

The industry knows this tech isn’t foolproof but it has still seriously reduced auto theft.

It is in fact easier with keyless entry systems as there is the alarm and door opening to deal with if it’s not keyless entry, however we are talking another minute at most for that.

Here’s how
You have the program on your laptop that replicates a car manufacturers ignition system ( lets say BMW) & you sit close to the owner (with the key in his / her pocket)
You scan the local area and pick up the transponder details (using software)
You decrypt the challenge / response pairs (using software) using at basic what is known as a brute force attack; the system will eventually find a pair that work and you can predict the sequence
You go to the vehicle and send out the correct response pair
Voila
You drive away fast (-;

2nd gen transponders are far better than the first, but it’s still possible.
For those of you with keyless entry, (especially 1st Gen) at the least consider keeping your key in a metal shroud as this minimises active scanning attacks, as wrapping your key in tin foil looks rather chav, don’t you agree?
 
Back
Top Bottom