Pagid brake discs - a quick heads up. Update!

[Roberltd2]

The Zed was booked in yesterday to have new rear brake calipers and pads fitted. My mechanic advised having new discs at the same time because the original items were in a pretty ropey state by now.
I thought I'd grabbed a pretty good deal when I bought a pair of Pagid discs from my local Halfords store for £34.87 each (same things are £39.87 on their website).
However, after fitting the yesterday, the long and short of it is that after a lot of head scratching on his part, my mechanic finally realised that the brake drum was not concentric with the centre of the disc and so the (handbrake) shoes could not be adjusted to fit properly.
So now I'm having to order another pair of new discs (this time Brembo from Autodoc) and hopefully Halfords will refund me for these items of cr*p.
I don't want to criticise Halfords - especially my local branch who are always very helpful - but it seems to me that Pagid have gone downhill a bit recently.
Just reporting my own personal experience here in the hope it might be useful to others.

 

[j3nks79]

Over 20+ odd years in the garage and many 1000’s of brake discs I’ve never seen this problem.
So the centre bore of the disc isn’t in the centre?

 

[Roberltd2]

That's my reading of it. He's had to adjust the handbrake quite loose now (so the handle comes up much higher than usual) and I can still hear rubbing sounds increasing with revs. Calipers work fine. Been my mechanic since 2007.

 

[j3nks79]

I’m going to say I think either the discs are the wrong ones or the shoes haven’t been fitted correctly.
With modern factory tolerances and tooling I’d find it hard to believe that the centre bore is offset.

 

[Rockhopper]

I'd suggest its more likely a problem with the way the handbrake has been adjusted/set up but it'll be interesting to see what happens when you get the new disks!

 

[enuff_zed]

Surely a minute with a rule would soon confirm the problem?

 

[Beerman]

I’m going to say I think either the discs are the wrong ones or the shoes haven’t been fitted correctly.
With modern factory tolerances and tooling I’d find it hard to believe that the centre bore is offset.

Mistakes happen. They churn out brake discs by the thousands and it wouldn't surprise me at all that parts out with tolerance reach the customer.

I would expect a mechanic to measure the brake disc to prove it's eccentric rather than just offering his opinion.

 

[j3nks79]

I’m going to say I think either the discs are the wrong ones or the shoes haven’t been fitted correctly.
With modern factory tolerances and tooling I’d find it hard to believe that the centre bore is offset.

Mistakes happen. They churn out brake discs by that thousands and it wouldn't surprise me at all that parts out with tolerance reach the customer.

I would expect a mechanic to measure the brake disc to prove it's eccentric rather than just offering his opinion.

Most mistakes are made by human beings and not machines/computers.
I think with brakes or tyres etc the quality control would be at a very high level.

 

[Beerman]

I’m going to say I think either the discs are the wrong ones or the shoes haven’t been fitted correctly.
With modern factory tolerances and tooling I’d find it hard to believe that the centre bore is offset.

Mistakes happen. They churn out brake discs by that thousands and it wouldn't surprise me at all that parts out with tolerance reach the customer.

I would expect a mechanic to measure the brake disc to prove it's eccentric rather than just offering his opinion.

Most mistakes are made by human beings and not machines/computers.
I think with brakes or tyres etc the quality control would be at a very high level.

I expect quality control on cheap brake discs is low. Inspecting things in detail takes time.

The standard of machining on cheap discs is poor.

It is easy to mount something wrong and be out of concentricity. The way discs are fired into machines it's hardly a surprise some are wrong.

 

[j3nks79]

Mistakes happen. They churn out brake discs by that thousands and it wouldn't surprise me at all that parts out with tolerance reach the customer.

I would expect a mechanic to measure the brake disc to prove it's eccentric rather than just offering his opinion.

Most mistakes are made by human beings and not machines/computers.
I think with brakes or tyres etc the quality control would be at a very high level.

I expect quality control on cheap brake discs is low. Inspecting things in detail takes time.

The standard of machining on cheap discs is poor.

It is easy to mount something wrong and be out of concentricity. The way discs are fired into machines it's hardly a surprise some are wrong.

Over 20 years in the garage and 1000’s of discs and I’ve never seen it.
If it was how you say it is I would have come across it more than once I’m sure.

 

[Beerman]

Most mistakes are made by human beings and not machines/computers.
I think with brakes or tyres etc the quality control would be at a very high level.

I expect quality control on cheap brake discs is low. Inspecting things in detail takes time.

The standard of machining on cheap discs is poor.

It is easy to mount something wrong and be out of concentricity. The way discs are fired into machines it's hardly a surprise some are wrong.

Over 20 years in the garage and 1000’s of discs and I’ve never seen it.
If it was how you say it is I would have come across it more than once I’m sure.

27 years in the engineering/machining game and it's common to find parts outwith tolerance or completely wrong.

 

[Roberltd2]

All will be revealed when the Pagid items are swapped out for Brembo. I will be sure to post photos and measurements.

 

[j3nks79]

I expect quality control on cheap brake discs is low. Inspecting things in detail takes time.

The standard of machining on cheap discs is poor.

It is easy to mount something wrong and be out of concentricity. The way discs are fired into machines it's hardly a surprise some are wrong.

Over 20 years in the garage and 1000’s of discs and I’ve never seen it.
If it was how you say it is I would have come across it more than once I’m sure.

27 years in the engineering/machining game and it's common to find parts outwith tolerance or completely wrong.

I understand in mainstream manufacturing and production you find items outside tolerances etc.

But we are talking about brake discs which have the ability to cause serious injury or death.

Regulation 90 is the ECE safety standards for all brake pads/discs sold in UK Europe.
So I still find it hard to believe that a disc can slip through quality control with these standards in place.

In this case the op has posted it would be two discs that have been made out of tolerance and the hub not centric. What would the odds be on that?

 

[Pondrew]

Are brake discs CNC machined, or 'pressed', or 'cast'?

I presume by the scoring marks when new they are at least finished on a CNC lathe, or machining centre.

 

[j3nks79]

Are brake discs CNC machined, or 'pressed', or 'cast'?

I presume by the scoring marks when new they are at least finished on a CNC lathe, or machining centre.

I always assumed they were cast. Then holes drills finished and balanced

 

[legin]

Halfords parts is ECP these days and pagid is ECP. Make your own mind up but I avoid ECP own brands. Halfords online parts is shocking in my experience so dont feel for calling them out.

 

[Reamesy]

Never had issues with Zimmerman from AUTODOC. Very good quality and I always go with the sport coated. They still look new after a winter and 7000 miles

 

[TomK]

So now I'm having to order another pair of new discs (this time Brembo from Autodoc) and hopefully Halfords will refund me for these items of cr*p.
I don't want to criticise Halfords - especially my local branch who are always very helpful - but it seems to me that Pagid have gone downhill a bit recently.

At this end of the price spectrum both Pagid and Brembo discs are just licensed names and almost guaranteed to be made in china, quite possibly the same factory and both as bad as each other.
As above, better off going for something made in germany like ATE or Zimmerman.

 

[enuff_zed]

So now I'm having to order another pair of new discs (this time Brembo from Autodoc) and hopefully Halfords will refund me for these items of cr*p.
I don't want to criticise Halfords - especially my local branch who are always very helpful - but it seems to me that Pagid have gone downhill a bit recently.

At this end of the price spectrum both Pagid and Brembo discs are just licensed names and almost guaranteed to be made in china, quite possibly the same factory and both as bad as each other.
As above, better off going for something made in germany like ATE or Zimmerman.

Never had an issue with Brembo.

 

[Beerman]

Over 20 years in the garage and 1000’s of discs and I’ve never seen it.
If it was how you say it is I would have come across it more than once I’m sure.

27 years in the engineering/machining game and it's common to find parts outwith tolerance or completely wrong.

I understand in mainstream manufacturing and production you find items outside tolerances etc.

But we are talking about brake discs which have the ability to cause serious injury or death.

Regulation 90 is the ECE safety standards for all brake pads/discs sold in UK Europe.
So I still find it hard to believe that a disc can slip through quality control with these standards in place.

In this case the op has posted it would be two discs that have been made out of tolerance and the hub not centric. What would the odds be on that?

I've seen critical components manufactured to the highest of standards, gone through multiple 100% inspections with dimensions documented, and still ended up at the customer wrong.

When you are producing components in vast quantities it isn't usual to find numerous components manufactured in sequence all have the same defects.

Look at the price of some of the brake discs. They are not manufactured to a high standard and inspected to critical depths for £34.87.