All season tyres..a new option?

[Anonymous]

Here is Scotland we have what seems a very extended autumn / winter / spring season..

Long periods of roads covered in ‘gloop’ a mixture of mud/water sitting often at 2c-8c are common..

On the other hand we can often get two days in a row where the temperature swings from 2c to 15c...I’ve seen 5c to 18c on a few times.

Then we get the -1c to 2c damp roads..bits of ice , often over bridges and in dips..

So the issue is that summer tyres really struggle when we get to these conditions..i was running both Conti Sports 5 on 18” rims and most recently wearing out some older Conti Sports 3 on 17” rims.

I noticed that with my upgraded front brakes that the despite pretty good feel from the fronts the ABS was triggering quite often when pressing on and the front was drifting out but not really washing out...

I did have a set of Coni Winter Contact 830p on 103 17” Daisies earlier (before I fitted 28i 330mm discs..the wheels didn’t fit afterwards) which were really good in the winter but on the odd occasion when temps went above about 15c then they would go ‘off’ in a way reminiscent of a F1 race :rofl: Plus very rapid wear rate..like 2mm in one afternoon.. :tumbleweed:

So fast forward to a review of what wheels and what tyres (first world problems) both sizes and types..

An unforeseen puncture prematurely ended a set of Conti sport contact 5 on my Zito 935s so I’ve replaced them with some Goodyear Asymmetric 5s in 235/40 18 and 265/35 18..these are to be plugged in next summer..we will see if they equal or better the Conti Sports 5..

So back to this post...

I looked at fitting winter tyres to my 17” Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 wheels but the issue of I’m not planning to do much driving in snow but the temps can go way above the 8c magic transition point which may result in the tyres ‘going off’..

One of the big issues with winter tyres and also all season is they don’t do many in the lower profiles fitted to a Zed..

So I decided to give all season tyres a go...

After much head scratching I narrowed it down to either the Bridgestone Weather Control which got very good reviews in everything but snow..the Michelin cross climate’s crown was slipping as they await the 2nd generation....the new Goodyear Vector Gen 3 was a new rIsing star...Conti’s offering was a more hard core snow oriented tyre..and Vredstein Quatrac also came up with some good reviews

So I went with the Goodyear Vector Gen 3 in 235/45 17 and 245/45 17 on 8j and 9j rims

I was trying to avoid to big a variation in net diameters to avoid confusing the DSC system..

An interesting anecdotal test was the trip to/from the tyre fitter,,

On the way there , the car felt well planted but the ABS kicked in occasionally provoked plus pushing it hard resulted in the front starting to wash out..if enough boot applied the rear would start to go but less so..

On the way back after a few miles to scrub the tyres in (not that they ever felt that they needed it) the car just felt much more planted..the car did feel like it was wearing some chunkier tyres but I guess the car becomes a pothole crusher now..

Turn in on damp / slimy roads at 4c was much more solid and I never got the ABS to kick in..

Accelerating hard again grip was good with no traction control lights..

So good news so far..

Obviously not to everyone’s taste especially darn sarf..

 

[mr.tourette]

I think its a good choice for north of the border, I've run all seasons on my dailys for the last 10 years and they're just fine even when pressing on in summer.. the cross climates I fitted last year have been faultless through summer and last winter on a 260 bhp rwd merc. I don't think you'll have any issues with them Pete

 

[sars]

I’ve just spent the last few weeks contemplating fitting four new all season tyres onto a set of Veemann V-FS36.You’re right about winter tyres, last week we had a few frosty mornings, today the temperature is in double figures and then those winter compounds start to wear like crazy.

It’s an horrendous decision, scouring test reviews for confirmation and reassurance, I’ve opted, I think, for the Continental All Seasons Contact,

However, the Michelin’s look good too, unfortunately I can’t seem to get the Goodyear’s in my size 255/35 R19. Bridgestone’s Weather Control seem to get good reviews but having that makes horrid RFT’s fitted to every BMW I’ve owned puts me right off

 

[mr wilks]

today the temperature is in double figures and then those winter compounds start to wear like crazy.

That is a fallacy , simply not true .

 

[sars]

today the temperature is in double figures and then those winter compounds start to wear like crazy.

That is a fallacy , simply not true .

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but the last set of winters I had lost 2mm over a season, anyway please quote your source or reference to dispute

Both the AA and the RAC state the maximum temperature is 7 C, as temperature rises above that the compound gets softer and thus wear increases,

 

[Mr Tidy]

It's an interesting topic, although not for my Z4 as that stays at home if it gets down near zero and/or there is any salt around!

But my 3 Series came on summer tyres with a spare set of wheels fitted with winters so for now I'll keep swapping wheels twice a year. :roll:

Although I'm not sure I can justify keeping it given how few miles I'm doing these days, so if I replaced it All Season tyres would be pretty appealing.

Does anyone know if they still perform OK without increased wear when it's over 20 degrees for a few months like it was this summer?

 

[Anonymous]

I’ve just spent the last few weeks contemplating fitting four new all season tyres onto a set of Veemann V-FS36.You’re right about winter tyres, last week we had a few frosty mornings, today the temperature is in double figures and then those winter compounds start to wear like crazy.

It’s an horrendous decision, scouring test reviews for confirmation and reassurance, I’ve opted, I think, for the Continental All Seasons Contact,

However, the Michelin’s look good too, unfortunately I can’t seem to get the Goodyear’s in my size 255/35 R19. Bridgestone’s Weather Control seem to get good reviews but having that makes horrid RFT’s fitted to every BMW I’ve owned puts me right off

It is one of the main issues getting winter/all season tyres in direct replacement sizes, especially if you have asymmetric sizes..often you have to go I click up on the profile ie 35 to 40..

In theory you’re supposed to have equal rolling radius front n rear to avoid upsetting the DSC systems,,

That’s why I went with my size differences down to about 1.4%...1.8% is alleged to be the limit before the DSC starts to get confused..

The Bridgestones failed the grade simply because of their reputation as an OE fit..they scored well in most reviews were snow was a significant weighting factor..

No doubt that Michelin pioneered the real all season tyre..the consensus seems that like all these things technological is that some of the new guys have just nibbled ahead..but I’m sure Michelin will be back..

 

[sars]

From what I’ve gleaned so far, the compound is close to a summer tyre, though with a lower minimum operating temperature but the tread pattern is more like a winter tyre

Good articles here and various test reviews

https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2020-All-Season-Tyre-Market-Overview---32-Tyre-Braking-Test.htm

 

[Anonymous]

It's an interesting topic, although not for my Z4 as that stays at home if it gets down near zero and/or there is any salt around!

But my 3 Series came on summer tyres with a spare set of wheels fitted with winters so for now I'll keep swapping wheels twice a year. :roll:

Although I'm not sure I can justify keeping it given how few miles I'm doing these days, so if I replaced it All Season tyres would be pretty appealing.

Does anyone know if they still perform OK without increased wear when it's over 20 degrees for a few months like it was this summer?

My understanding having spent many of these winter evenings boning up on this subject is that they can run all year at elevated temperatures...

You have to remember the primary driver for all season tyres is the continent where many countries mandate 3 peaks snow tyres during the winter...these all season tyres can meet the 3 peaks winter spec but can rumble down the autoroute at 35c at naughty speeds...

Much as I respect the supreme omnipotentence of Mr Wilks I have to disagree with him on winter wear rates at elevated temperatures..

In 2018 I went on a road trip with some other Zeds to Skye..

I had my digital tyre gauge with me..

I measured the tyres shortly before we departed the rears on average we’re about 0.5m more worn than the fronts ..can;t remember the absolute numbers but we were at 5-6mm.

First day, in April was a typical April day with temps around 7-11c during the day..

Second day temperatures were 23c..I saw the traction control light coming on a few times..

That evening I measured the tread depth..I’d lost at least 1.0mm to 1.5mm over the whole tread compared to the front with pronounced feathering on the rear tyres..so that’s worn off in 200 miles albeit very serious hooning..

 

[sars]

I’ve just spent the last few weeks contemplating fitting four new all season tyres onto a set of Veemann V-FS36.You’re right about winter tyres, last week we had a few frosty mornings, today the temperature is in double figures and then those winter compounds start to wear like crazy.

It’s an horrendous decision, scouring test reviews for confirmation and reassurance, I’ve opted, I think, for the Continental All Seasons Contact,

However, the Michelin’s look good too, unfortunately I can’t seem to get the Goodyear’s in my size 255/35 R19. Bridgestone’s Weather Control seem to get good reviews but having that makes horrid RFT’s fitted to every BMW I’ve owned puts me right off

It is one of the main issues getting winter/all season tyres in direct replacement sizes, especially if you have asymmetric sizes..often you have to go I click up on the profile ie 35 to 40..

In theory you’re supposed to have equal rolling radius front n rear to avoid upsetting the DSC systems,,

That’s why I went with my size differences down to about 1.4%...1.8% is alleged to be the limit before the DSC starts to get confused..

The Bridgestones failed the grade simply because of their reputation as an OE fit..they scored well in most reviews were snow was a significant weighting factor..

No doubt that Michelin pioneered the real all season tyre..the consensus seems that like all these things technological is that some of the new guys have just nibbled ahead..but I’m sure Michelin will be back..

I’ve gone square, so 255/35 R19 all round, my current rears are 285/30 R19 so the new set up equates to a slightly larger circumference on the rear, 245/35 are a closer match for the rears but then the fronts would be down in size

 

[Jembo]

Fit the best tyre for the conditions is IMO best common sense - good choice OP for where you live

 

[Mr Tidy]

It's an interesting topic, although not for my Z4 as that stays at home if it gets down near zero and/or there is any salt around!

But my 3 Series came on summer tyres with a spare set of wheels fitted with winters so for now I'll keep swapping wheels twice a year. :roll:

Although I'm not sure I can justify keeping it given how few miles I'm doing these days, so if I replaced it All Season tyres would be pretty appealing.

Does anyone know if they still perform OK without increased wear when it's over 20 degrees for a few months like it was this summer?

My understanding having spent many of these winter evenings boning up on this subject is that they can run all year at elevated temperatures...

You have to remember the primary driver for all season tyres is the continent where many countries mandate 3 peaks snow tyres during the winter...these all season tyres can meet the 3 peaks winter spec but can rumble down the autoroute at 35c at naughty speeds...

Much as I respect the supreme omnipotentence of Mr Wilks I have to disagree with him on winter wear rates at elevated temperatures..

In 2018 I went on a road trip with some other Zeds to Skye..

I had my digital tyre gauge with me..

I measured the tyres shortly before we departed the rears on average we’re about 0.5m more worn than the fronts ..can;t remember the absolute numbers but we were at 5-6mm.

First day, in April was a typical April day with temps around 7-11c during the day..

Second day temperatures were 23c..I saw the traction control light coming on a few times..

That evening I measured the tread depth..I’d lost about 1mm to 1.5mm over the whole tread compared to the front with pronounced feathering on the rear tyres..so that’s worn off in 200 miles albeit very serious hooning..

Thanks, that's really helpful.

Luckily I don't tend to hoon too much in my 3 Series so my winters don't suffer too badly, but it looks like All Seasons would save me swapping wheels twice a year!

I do know from when I had a 123d in 2010 that any RWD BMW with summer run-flats is just a driveway ornament in snow. :headbang: Whereas my 3 Series on winters during the Beast from the East in 2018 was just fine.

 

[mr wilks]

today the temperature is in double figures and then those winter compounds start to wear like crazy.

That is a fallacy , simply not true .

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but the last set of winters I had lost 2mm over a season, anyway please quote your source or reference to dispute

Both the AA and the RAC state the maximum temperature is 7 C, as temperature rises above that the compound gets softer and thus wear increases,

No official source other than my own experience based over real world usage the past 5 years .

C class estate i fitted Hankook Ice Bears then covered 25k over 4 .5 yrs including multiple summer euro touring holidays . Sold it with 4mm on rears & 5 mm on fronts

Yeti i bought Jan 2020 fitted Nokian WR4s straight away , as of today its covered 19k with a 3 month stint through summer pounding the M6 for 160m a day at 75mph. The fronts are currently measuring 6mm.

I agree winter tyres did once have issues with wear rate on warm tarmac but clearly technology has progressed so they can be used all year round.

I also fitted the WR4s 19s to the Si coupe i recently had & can say they performed as good in warm temps as cold .
3 vehicles in household having multiple sets wouldn't work so its a good all year round option for us .

Pic shows WR4 after 19k on front of fwd Yeti

 

[sars]

That is a fallacy , simply not true .

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but the last set of winters I had lost 2mm over a season, anyway please quote your source or reference to dispute

Both the AA and the RAC state the maximum temperature is 7 C, as temperature rises above that the compound gets softer and thus wear increases,

No official source other than my own experience based over real world usage the past 5 years .

C class estate i fitted Hankook Ice Bears then covered 25k over 4 .5 yrs including multiple summer euro touring holidays . Sold it with 4mm on rears & 5 mm on fronts

Yeti i bought Jan 2020 fitted Nokian WR4s straight away , as of today its covered 19k with a 3 month stint through summer pounding the M6 for 160m a day at 75mph. The fronts are currently measuring 6mm.

I agree winter tyres did once have issues with wear rate on warm tarmac but clearly technology has progressed so they can be used all year round.

I also fitted the WR4s 19s to the Si coupe i recently had & can say they performed as good in warm temps as cold .
3 vehicles in household having multiple sets wouldn't work so its a good all year round option for us .

Pic shows WR4 after 19k on front of fwd Yeti

So that’s a no to any scientific data or journal review just your opinion then, thanks but I’ll stick to what the professionals think, which is that winter tyres are optimised to work below 7 C.

It’ not just about wear though, the blocky tread pattern of winter tyres creates more work as the tread moves which generates added heat, reduces feel and lateral grip. so it’s not just about the ambient temperature. I’d wonder about the sanity of anyone running winter wheels on a performance car in summer.

Back on topic, which you seem to have missed, rather belittle, than be constructive, all season tyres were developed for climates such as our own rather than the cold winter climates like Scandinavia etcetera, in my view are a more suitable choice and it would seem the manufacturers would agree

 

[mr wilks]

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but the last set of winters I had lost 2mm over a season, anyway please quote your source or reference to dispute

Both the AA and the RAC state the maximum temperature is 7 C, as temperature rises above that the compound gets softer and thus wear increases,

No official source other than my own experience based over real world usage the past 5 years .

C class estate i fitted Hankook Ice Bears then covered 25k over 4 .5 yrs including multiple summer euro touring holidays . Sold it with 4mm on rears & 5 mm on fronts

Yeti i bought Jan 2020 fitted Nokian WR4s straight away , as of today its covered 19k with a 3 month stint through summer pounding the M6 for 160m a day at 75mph. The fronts are currently measuring 6mm.

I agree winter tyres did once have issues with wear rate on warm tarmac but clearly technology has progressed so they can be used all year round.

I also fitted the WR4s 19s to the Si coupe i recently had & can say they performed as good in warm temps as cold .
3 vehicles in household having multiple sets wouldn't work so its a good all year round option for us .

Pic shows WR4 after 19k on front of fwd Yeti

So that’s a no to any scientific data or journal review just your opinion then, thanks but I’ll stick to what the professionals think, which is that winter tyres are optimised to work below 7 C.

It’ not just about wear though, the blocky tread pattern of winter tyres creates more work as the tread moves which generates added heat, reduces feel and lateral grip. so it’s not just about the ambient temperature. I’d wonder about the sanity of anyone running winter wheels on a performance car in summer.

Back on topic, which you seem to have missed, rather belittle, than be constructive, all season tyres were developed for climates such as our own rather than the cold winter climates like Scandinavia etcetera, in my view are a more suitable choice and it would seem the manufacturers would agree

I haven't in any way attempted to belittle the topic , I thought it was entirely relevant to point out your facts on winter tyres weren't true & seemingly just something you have read about on the web as opposed to actual experience.
Thanks for your barbed snipe Re my sanity , I'm touched but really there is no need , I.m quite capable of making sound & rational decisions when it comes to tyres .

 

[Anonymous]

Let’s not get into personal related spats..(I know that’s rich coming from me)

To square the circle between various statements...

It would appear that I drive my car harder than some others as I never get close to other people’s tyre mileage expectations.. :driving:

Also I think it’s a truism that whilst most tyre reviews applaud the general performance of most Conti products a common thread seems to be an above average wear rate..at least until the arrival of the latest Conti tyres this last year.

So the Conti TS830s fitted to my Zed did wear out much faster than the same tyres fitted to SWMBO F56 Cooper SD Mini..

Also the Sports Contact 3 and Sport Contact 5 also wore out quickly...

So in under 20,000 miles I’ve gone through two sets of summer tyres and one set of winter tyres...

When I say ‘gone through’ ..in all cases the rears have either close to the legal limit or have gone well below the manufacturer’s specified replacement limit..

Of course other people with other tyres experience may well be different..

Hope that clarifies the matter..

 

[Flyingfifer]

Being a proper lazy bass (and not having a spare set of wheels or anywhere to keep them) I have never swapped out my "normal" tyres over winter and have (mostly) managed except where Siberian levels of snow came our way. I have driven cars with winter tyres however and it is undeniable that in the more icy and snowy conditions they do perform noticeably better. Unfortunately that just deprives me of being able to wag the tail with little to no effort :thumbsdown: :rofl:

 

[sars]

I would have probably gone with the Goodyear’s if they did them in that size and unfortunately they don’t

 

[Z4M-2006]

Let’s not get into personal related spats..(I know that’s rich coming from me)

To square the circle between various statements...

It would appear that I drive my car harder than some others as I never get close to other people’s tyre mileage expectations.. :driving:

Also I think it’s a truism that whilst most tyre reviews applaud the general performance of most Conti products a common thread seems to be an above average wear rate..at least until the arrival of the latest Conti tyres this last year.

So the Conti TS830s fitted to my Zed did wear out much faster than the same tyres fitted to SWMBO F56 Cooper SD Mini..

Also the Sports Contact 3 and Sport Contact 5 also wore out quickly...

So in under 20,000 miles I’ve gone through two sets of summer tyres and one set of winter tyres...

When I say ‘gone through’ ..in all cases the rears have either close to the legal limit or have gone well below the manufacturer’s specified replacement limit..

Of course other people with other tyres experience may well be different..

Hope that clarifies the matter..

I did 3 rear sets of Conti’s in 9k on my first C63

They are made of bubblegum, didn’t seem to offer any better grip either

 

[mmm-five]

What is this new option the title suggests?

Is it simply the Gen 3 of the Goodyear Vector?

The Goodyear Vector itself is not a new offering...my dad's last Motability car (went back in March this year) had the Vector Gen 2 fitted as standard and is used all year round?

For 'midlands' use commuting in all weathers between Liverpool & London (and a couple of hoons) I've stuck to either Michelin Cross-Climate, Cross-Climate Plus or the Bridgestone WeatherControl. Each of those have lasted more than 20,000 miles on either a FWD Alfa or the RWD e46 330D.

If you're in London or 'The South'...then a high performance summer tyre may be fine all year round - and just get an Uber on surge pricing when the weather turns

If you're further north then a winter-biased all-season (Goodyear) will be the better choice to a summer-biased all-season (Michelins)...with the Bridgestone in-between (cold/wet).