Brake Bleed Issue - Not taking Fluid? Has Air?

[Nocturnal]

Hello,

I just changed my rotors and pads. I am working on flushing my brake fluid. I bought this European Power Bleeder - Motive Products 0100 kit and am using Motul 660.

Before beginning I used a baster and took out the old fluid in the reservoir in the engine bay. Then I filled it up with the new fluid.

I then put the rest of the new fluid inside of the Motive Power Bleeder.

I pressurized the system to 15 psi and my friend opened up the bleeder valve at the passenger rear.

The pressure in the system held for more than a minute when testing just to make sure.

The brake fluid initially started coming out smoothly, and then it had a bunch of air coming through. The stream effectively stopped. I then went into the car and pumped the brake pedal a few times and it helped and continued. But this entire time we noticed air was coming out of the bleeder valve.

We see air pockets in the Motive Product as it goes in and air at the bleeder valve.

We're super confused on what to do here so any help would be greatly appreciated.

As we bled, the pressure of the air came out and it dropped, I then pumped it back up (Motive).

One thing I did notice was that it was dropping brake fluid at this conjunction that I had to connect following the Motive guide. (Please see Picture).

Additionally, when I depressurized the system to post this, the reservoir tank was super full when I unplugged (literally at the brim!) Is that normal?

Any help would be super appreciated!

 

[enuff_zed]

You may find, if you've let the level get too low in the reservoir, that you now have air trapped in the ABS unit. You will need to use something like INPA to activate the ABS while you open the bleed screws to pump that air through.
Too late for you now, but for anyone else reading in the future, try to keep the reservoir as full as possible. You'll still be able to flush all the fluid through, but won't have the ABS issue.

 

[Nocturnal]

You may find, if you've let the level get too low in the reservoir, that you now have air trapped in the ABS unit. You will need to use something like INPA to activate the ABS while you open the bleed screws to pump that air through.
Too late for you now, but for anyone else reading in the future, try to keep the reservoir as full as possible. You'll still be able to flush all the fluid through, but won't have the ABS issue.

Interesting, so even though I made sure my reservoir was full of liquid air was still introduced? Might've been when I was using the baster get the liquid out.

In my case, I don't have INPA but I do have a carly w/o a subscription. Do you know if I can activate it w/ a carly subscription?

Also, when I work on my car tomorrow. What steps should I do to try to get this new fluid through to all sides and maybe fix abs?

Thank you!

 

[Nocturnal]

I only bought 1.5 L of the RBF 660. Curious if I can bleed the system, rid of air pockets, and be fine with putting this fluid in? I'm assuming I'll just need to somehow identify when it's made it through and swap and reuse?

 

[john-e89]

You’ll see the fluid colour difference when the new has made its way through the system.

15psi is too low in my experience to do a full fluid change, I keep mine to 30 psi to make sure any trapped air in the calipers is pulled through.

As Enuff Zed says the fluid reservoir should be full at all times during a fluid change, pulling it out of the res is asking for air to get into the system.

 

[Nocturnal]

You’ll see the fluid colour difference when the new has made its way through the system.

15psi is too low in my experience to do a full fluid change, I keep mine to 30 psi to make sure any trapped air in the calipers is pulled through.

As Enuff Zed says the fluid reservoir should be full at all times during a fluid change, pulling it out of the res is asking for air to get into the system.

I saw online most say 15 psi. If it’s higher it can break seals or lines if they aren’t meant for it. Can our cars support 30 psi?


I see I was watching a YouTube video where he had used a baster to suck up the old fluid then fill with new then attach power bleeder.



So it sounds like I’ll connect again tomorrow.

1. Crack rear brake valve
2. Attach bottle to cracked nipple
3 Attach power motive to reservoir
4. Pump to 15 psi?
5. Liquid should flow out?

If liquid doesn’t flow out, what should I do?

 

[Nocturnal]

From the bleed already I have half the motive bottle full. Is that usual amount to get till new fluid?

 

[john-e89]

I saw online most say 15 psi. If it’s higher it can break seals or lines if they aren’t meant for it. Can our cars support 30 psi?


I see I was watching a YouTube video where he had used a baster to suck up the old fluid then fill with new then attach power bleeder.



So it sounds like I’ll connect again tomorrow.

1. Crack rear brake valve
2. Attach bottle to cracked nipple
3 Attach power motive to reservoir
4. Pump to 15 psi?
5. Liquid should flow out?

If liquid doesn’t flow out, what should I do?

1. No, don’t crack anything until you have your bleeder bottle cap screwed on the reservoir with fluid in.
2. Pump the bottle to your desired psi.
3. Attach your clear pipe to the caliper nipple.
4. Crack the nipple and do approx one to one and a half full turns.
5. When you see the new fluid come through with no air bubbles let it run a few more seconds then close the nipple.
6. Check your bleeder bottle for fluid and psi, pump up if necessary.
7. Repeat for the rest of the calipers.

Golden rule is don’t undo anything unless you have fluid ready to pump in the system or you’ll introduce air.

 

[enuff_zed]

1. No, don’t crack anything until you have your bleeder bottle cap screwed on the reservoir with fluid in.
2. Pump the bottle to your desired psi.
3. Attach your clear pipe to the caliper nipple.
4. Crack the nipple and do approx one to one and a half full turns.
5. When you see the new fluid come through with no air bubbles let it run a few more seconds then close the nipple.
6. Check your bleeder bottle for fluid and psi, pump up if necessary.
7. Repeat for the rest of the calipers.

Golden rule is don’t undo anything unless you have fluid ready to pump in the system or you’ll introduce air.

However, if there is air in the ABS unit it will stay there even if you get flow from all the callipers.

 

[john-e89]

Indeed

However, if there is air in the ABS unit it will stay there even if you get flow from all the callipers.

Indeed, my post was the bleed procedure assuming op has dealt with the abs issue Enuff.

 

[enuff_zed]

Indeed

Indeed, my post was the bleed procedure assuming op has dealt with the abs issue Enuff.

Yup, was aimed at the OP John, not you.

 

[Nocturnal]

1. No, don’t crack anything until you have your bleeder bottle cap screwed on the reservoir with fluid in.
2. Pump the bottle to your desired psi.
3. Attach your clear pipe to the caliper nipple.
4. Crack the nipple and do approx one to one and a half full turns.
5. When you see the new fluid come through with no air bubbles let it run a few more seconds then close the nipple.
6. Check your bleeder bottle for fluid and psi, pump up if necessary.
7. Repeat for the rest of the calipers.

Golden rule is don’t undo anything unless you have fluid ready to pump in the system or you’ll introduce air.

However, if there is air in the ABS unit it will stay there even if you get flow from all the callipers.

Thanks! So it sounds like I needed to pump more pressure? Could that be the reason why the flow was paused? I’m assuming it’s safe to pump 30 psi for my e85?

I don’t have a windows laptop for INPA. Am I out of luck for the ABS brake bleed?

 

[enuff_zed]

Thanks! So it sounds like I needed to pump more pressure? Could that be the reason why the flow was paused? I’m assuming it’s safe to pump 30 psi for my e85?

I don’t have a windows laptop for INPA. Am I out of luck for the ABS brake bleed?

More pressure will bleed the rest of the systerm, but yes, you need to find someone who has the correct system to activate the ABS too.

 

[Nocturnal]

More pressure will bleed the rest of the systerm, but yes, you need to find someone who has the correct system to activate the ABS too.

Got it, and because I only opened the nipple for passenger rear. Do I need to just bleed that side or the whole car?

 

[Nocturnal]

More pressure will bleed the rest of the systerm, but yes, you need to find someone who has the correct system to activate the ABS too.

Also, am I able to do this with 1.5L of motul 660. Or because it’s so expensive should I buy something cheap and flush? I guess it’s hard to know bc I’d be using two different types of new fluid?

 

[enuff_zed]

Got it, and because I only opened the nipple for passenger rear. Do I need to just bleed that side or the whole car

Also, am I able to do this with 1.5L of motul 660. Or because it’s so expensive should I buy something cheap and flush? I guess it’s hard to know bc I’d be using two different types of new fluid?

If, as we suspect, you have air in the ABS unit, then there is no way to guarantee which direction it will migrate in. It would, in my opinion, be foolish to do anything less than a complete system bleed.
If you now buy cheap fluid, how will you know when that is all expelled and the expensive stuff has replaced it? It's not quite the same as flushing engine oil.

Oh, and the reservoir being very full hasn't been commented on yet. In my experience that is normal as the pressure system is obviously designed to force fluid through, not air, so it cannot leave an air gap at the top of the reservoir. Sometimes, if you have the pressure vessel lower than the reservoir and depressurise it while it's still sealed to the system, then it will suck back fluid and leave you with a better level. But usually I have to syphon a bit out afterwards.

 

[Nocturnal]

If, as we suspect, you have air in the ABS unit, then there is no way to guarantee which direction it will migrate in. It would, in my opinion, be foolish to do anything less than a complete system bleed.
If you now buy cheap fluid, how will you know when that is all expelled and the expensive stuff has replaced it? It's not quite the same as flushing engine oil.

Oh, and the reservoir being very full hasn't been commented on yet. In my experience that is normal as the pressure system is obviously designed to force fluid through, not air, so it cannot leave an air gap at the top of the reservoir. Sometimes, if you have the pressure vessel lower than the reservoir and depressurise it while it's still sealed to the system, then it will suck back fluid and leave you with a better level. But usually I have to syphon a bit out afterwards.

Gotcha, that makes sense. For INPA which adapter do I need to buy to get it to work?

I'm a little worries b/c the fluid that came out of the bleed nipple and the fluid that Motul's RBF 660 look the same (color wise). In your experience how much fluid does a bottle usually fill when bleeding?