Flipping Windows!

T

TitanTim

Elite
The past week my Dell XPS laptop running Windows 10 suddenly started dying, it's not the laptop itself but I think Windows as Microsoft stopped supporting it last year. I suspect it's lacking certain drivers as some websites won't load or take an age to load and then are missing images etc. Z4 Forum loads fine though :)

My Dell laptop was quite a high spec one, touch screen, carbon and aluminium chasis and wasn't cheap so was surprised to learn it won't accept Windows 11. I did a restore of Windows 10 the other day which got it up and running again but it's still not 100%. Seems a shame to right off a perfectly good laptop.

Although I'm not a great Apple fan I'm looking at the latest MacBook Air M5 in the hope it will last a few years over another Windows laptop.

Is my thinking right that I will get better mileage out of an Apple or is that wishful thinking.

Tim.
 
I’m still running a 2015 MacBook Pro and the only thing that’s poor now is the battery life

Having said that I have heard poor things about newer models hence me hanging on to my older one over upgrading
 
Anything with an Apple Silicon chip in (M1, M2, etc) is more than powerful enough for 90% of the population, much different to the intel days. MacBook Neo has a (kind of) iPhone chip in it and it'll do for probably 75% of the population. You'll definitely get more mileage out of the macs these days. (I've got an M4 Pro MacBook Pro for work, but I could've skipped the upgrade and stayed on the M1 Pro MacBook Pro for 99% of my job to be honest. I could probably still be pretty productive on an M1 MacBook Air in all honesty.)

For the current machine to keep running, I'd also look at running adblockers or trying Firefox/Chrome as the browser instead, often its not the machine itself but all the absolute hordes of shite various websites try and run on your machine that makes it slow. There's also the option of putting linux on which I understand usually has better support than windows for older hardware (although yours doesn't sound that old tbh), some flavour of Ubuntu shouldn't be too dissimilar to Windows 10.
 
It all depends on what applications you absolutely need, and where they are supported. I'm a serial recycler of old stuff that people throw away (I'm typing this on a decrepit old Dell that I picked up for free after it was thrown out for not supporting Win11) using Linux - but I realise that's not for everybody. I still have an old Win10 machine for BMW Scanner 1.4 and Garmin map stuff. And an old Macbook that I use for MIDI interface software because they just do it really well. You shouldn't *need* to go to Win11. For sure, it makes sense in terms of security patching. But you don't need to write the machine off yet.

If you fancy giving Apple a whizz, keep an eye out for a MacBook Pro. They're starting to become affordable secondhand now, and are very good at video and music processing, and you can run Bootcamp to install Windows as well. Mine is a 2017 model, and is still more than capable of supporting anything I'm likely to throw at it in the next few years. The one thing I dislike about it is the physical connectivity. It's got USB-C ports and that's it. So if you want to use, say, HDMI to an external monitor, or plug in an SD card, you need an adaptor. But that's the Apple way of doing things. Make one thing really well, and let other people worry about interfacing it to other technology.
 
The Dell might just need some extra BIOS and/or security settings enabled to allow the upgrade to W11…but I’d recommend a clean install over an upgrade to ensure that nothing that’s infested W10 - intentionally or otherwise - is left over (and that includes things like 3rd party AV, security, cleaners and the Dell support suite).

BTW, I work and play on both Mac and Windows PCs…but spend most of my casual time on my Mac Studio…and of course the Mac requires zero ‘tweaking’ to remove any OOTB unwanted/intrusive stuff.
 
bigwinn said:
I’m still running a 2015 MacBook Pro and the only thing that’s poor now is the battery life

Having said that I have heard poor things about newer models hence me hanging on to my older one over upgrading
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Thanks, I've heard you should get a good 10 years out of an Apple.

I've just remembered I do have somewhere an Apple iBook Laptop that my mum used, she passed away 11 years ago so I'm going to dig it out and see if it still works,

Tim.
 
caius said:
Anything with an Apple Silicon chip in (M1, M2, etc) is more than powerful enough for 90% of the population, much different to the intel days. MacBook Neo has a (kind of) iPhone chip in it and it'll do for probably 75% of the population. You'll definitely get more mileage out of the macs these days. (I've got an M4 Pro MacBook Pro for work, but I could've skipped the upgrade and stayed on the M1 Pro MacBook Pro for 99% of my job to be honest. I could probably still be pretty productive on an M1 MacBook Air in all honesty.)

For the current machine to keep running, I'd also look at running adblockers or trying Firefox/Chrome as the browser instead, often its not the machine itself but all the absolute hordes of shite various websites try and run on your machine that makes it slow. There's also the option of putting linux on which I understand usually has better support than windows for older hardware (although yours doesn't sound that old tbh), some flavour of Ubuntu shouldn't be too dissimilar to Windows 10.
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Thanks for that, I've been looking at comparisons between the latest Neo and Air and seems that Air would be the one to go for for not that more outlay, I wouldn't need the Pro and it's getting too expensive for what I need anyways.

I'm running Firefox on my Dell with Adblock Plus which is a boon for Youtube ads.

Tim.
 
Mrs Tidy ordered an R56 Mini in 2006 with a CD-changer, but they hadn't made one when her car was built. The salesman suggested she bought an I-pod instead - what a PITA that was!

Had to copy any music from our CDs she wanted in an Apple format and then again for anything I wanted in MP3 that everyone else used.

As a result I've never bought any overpriced Apple product to avoid being forced down the Apple rabbit-hole. My 2017 Dell laptop with Windows 10 that cost just under £325 is still working fine for now anyway. I hate to think what Apple would have tried to extort from me!
 
Mr Tidy said:
Had to copy any music from our CDs she wanted in an Apple format and then again for anything I wanted in MP3 that everyone else used.

As a result I've never bought any overpriced Apple product to avoid being forced down the Apple rabbit-hole. My 2017 Dell laptop with Windows 10 that cost just under £325 is still working fine for now anyway. I hate to think what Apple would have tried to extort from me!
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Apple definitely will play MP3 files - but I do agree with the Apple ecosystem sentiment. That's their business model, and it works for a large chunk of the population. You get sucked in, and before you know it, it's a new iPhone every two years just to keep up. That said, you can (and I do) use a MacOS machine without an Apple ID, just as a tool like any other. It's horses for courses really - I genuinely do understand why the Apple way of doing things just works for a lot of people. It's easy to use, upgrading is easy, and your data is always to hand. But I suspect that a lot of people who like to keep old cars running are also more than happy to tinker around with old tech as well :)
 
nr. said:
But I suspect that a lot of people who like to keep old cars running are also more than happy to tinker around with old tech as well :)
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I spend more than enough keeping old cars running to want to avoid wasting money on Apple products!
 
Mr Tidy said:
Mrs Tidy ordered an R56 Mini in 2006 with a CD-changer, but they hadn't made one when her car was built. The salesman suggested she bought an I-pod instead - what a PITA that was!

Had to copy any music from our CDs she wanted in an Apple format and then again for anything I wanted in MP3 that everyone else used.

As a result I've never bought any overpriced Apple product to avoid being forced down the Apple rabbit-hole. My 2017 Dell laptop with Windows 10 that cost just under £325 is still working fine for now anyway. I hate to think what Apple would have tried to extort from me!
Click to expand...
I know where you're coming from. I've had a couple of iPhones in the past but then there was that scandle of deliberate poor battery performance I'm assuming to encourage you to get a new phone. Whether true or not, I've not touched them since.

I think I'm just looking at an alternative to Windows. I find the regular updates that slows your PC down or the install goes wrong etc a pain at times.

I'm just surprised my DELL from 2018 has stopped working with Windows already as Windows 10 support only stopped last Autumn.

Tim.
 
It's a mistake to think Windows support ending is in any way a problem. All it means is an end to updates that 99.9999% of the time won't be even remotely relevant - the main bugs were worked out years ago. All of the hype about security patches is so overblown it's comical. Huge numbers of them are theoretical exploits and, for the ones that might allow some sort of breach, they're only relevant to computers that will be explicitly targeted in really complicated attacks - MI5, banks, government etc. Kevin from Birmingham isn't going to be going at your computer in the same way - partly because, owing to something called NAT in your router, he couldn't find your computer if he tried. You're already invisible.

I only updated my main desktop from Win 7 last year (installed 2013) because my CAD software (Fusion 360) wanted to move to Python 3.0 and that could only be installed on Win 10 (and I couldn't be bothered to bypass all that.) And the first thing I always do when I install Windows? Turn off the bloody updates. Huge waste of time and effort that actually does break more than it solves.

As for drivers: the core code of Windows has barely changed in 25 years (which is one of the reasons it's actually very stable) and the driver handling is part of that. If you ever go looking for specific drivers you'll often see them listed for every version of Windows from XP through to 11.

The only driver I've had problems with since moving to Win10 is my ancient scanner because they withdrew TWAIN support some years ago.

Backwards compatibility has always been a big thing for Microsoft because it's allowed people to keep using their legacy software for decades which is an important thing in business and industry. They're very careful not to break things to keep their market position.

The main reason computers get slower is the software running on them and, for most people, that's the browser which, with their endless and sort of necessary updates for new web technologies, get more and more bloated. Firefox for me is absolutely groaning lately. It seems to be one of my AdBlockers but, looking at how much junk pages now seem to hold, the alternative would be worse. I probably need to move back to Chrome for a bit.

Finally, Windows 11. No, just no. They've done what they always do. Add a whole load of new things that breaks stuff and quietly get removed later. As for the GUI, they've done another unnecessary redesign keep the shareholders happy by making it look new and exciting while being harder to find the things you only just found after the last redesign.

It's the same as Win ME, Vista and Win 8 - fundamentally borked. But under the surface it's still Windows 10 with some whizzy bits bolted on so there's no reason to upgrade. It certainly won't make your browser work any better.
 
Mr Tidy said:
Mrs Tidy ordered an R56 Mini in 2006 with a CD-changer, but they hadn't made one when her car was built. The salesman suggested she bought an I-pod instead - what a PITA that was!

Had to copy any music from our CDs she wanted in an Apple format and then again for anything I wanted in MP3 that everyone else used.

As a result I've never bought any overpriced Apple product to avoid being forced down the Apple rabbit-hole. My 2017 Dell laptop with Windows 10 that cost just under £325 is still working fine for now anyway. I hate to think what Apple would have tried to extort from me!
Click to expand...
Never had to convert any of my library of MP3s to 'Apple format' when I switched to an iPod. Did have to convert some of my hi-res FLAC files to Apple Lossless if I wanted to keep the quality and play on the iPod/iPhone.

Imagine all those music lovers who had to transfer all their vinyls to CD to play in their in-car CD players :rolleyes:

Sounds more like user error to me :ROFLMAO:
 
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smorris_12 said:
It's a mistake to think Windows support ending is in any way a problem. All it means is an end to updates that 99.9999% of the time won't be even remotely relevant - the main bugs were worked out years ago. All of the hype about security patches is so overblown it's comical. Huge numbers of them are theoretical exploits and, for the ones that might allow some sort of breach, they're only relevant to computers that will be explicitly targeted in really complicated attacks - MI5, banks, government etc. Kevin from Birmingham isn't going to be going at your computer in the same way - partly because, owing to something called NAT in your router, he couldn't find your computer if he tried. You're already invisible.

I only updated my main desktop from Win 7 last year (installed 2013) because my CAD software (Fusion 360) wanted to move to Python 3.0 and that could only be installed on Win 10 (and I couldn't be bothered to bypass all that.) And the first thing I always do when I install Windows? Turn off the bloody updates. Huge waste of time and effort that actually does break more than it solves.

As for drivers: the core code of Windows has barely changed in 25 years (which is one of the reasons it's actually very stable) and the driver handling is part of that. If you ever go looking for specific drivers you'll often see them listed for every version of Windows from XP through to 11.

The only driver I've had problems with since moving to Win10 is my ancient scanner because they withdrew TWAIN support some years ago.

Backwards compatibility has always been a big thing for Microsoft because it's allowed people to keep using their legacy software for decades which is an important thing in business and industry. They're very careful not to break things to keep their market position.

The main reason computers get slower is the software running on them and, for most people, that's the browser which, with their endless and sort of necessary updates for new web technologies, get more and more bloated. Firefox for me is absolutely groaning lately. It seems to be one of my AdBlockers but, looking at how much junk pages now seem to hold, the alternative would be worse. I probably need to move back to Chrome for a bit.

Finally, Windows 11. No, just no. They've done what they always do. Add a whole load of new things that breaks stuff and quietly get removed later. As for the GUI, they've done another unnecessary redesign keep the shareholders happy by making it look new and exciting while being harder to find the things you only just found after the last redesign.

It's the same as Win ME, Vista and Win 8 - fundamentally borked. But under the surface it's still Windows 10 with some whizzy bits bolted on so there's no reason to upgrade. It certainly won't make your browser work any better.
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Unsure about that 🤔

I reinstalled Windows 10 and tried a number of different browsers but to no effect. If you're saying the updates are a waste of time then why release them? To be honest I just want something that works than worry about the operating system, updates etc.

Tim.
 
It gives a lot of people a lot of work. From MS's point of view there is value in security updates as it protects the few people that actually need them but by talking them up, everyone assumed they need them. From out PoV, they're pointless. Most people just wants systems that work so don't question what goes on - as a software engineer, I can't understand how anyone uses these things out of the box!

How much memory has it got? Browsers have got very memory hungry in the last couple few years. My 4GB netbook now struggles with more than a couple of tabs open and will fall over when it fills it - it seems to ignore the swapfile and wants it all in at once.
 
smorris_12 said:
It gives a lot of people a lot of work. From MS's point of view there is value in security updates as it protects the few people that actually need them but by talking them up, everyone assumed they need them. From out PoV, they're pointless. Most people just wants systems that work so don't question what goes on - as a software engineer, I can't understand how anyone uses these things out of the box!

How much memory has it got? Browsers have got very memory hungry in the last couple few years. My 4GB netbook now struggles with more than a couple of tabs open and will fall over when it fills it - it seems to ignore the swapfile and wants it all in at once.
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Thanks, it's got 16GB of RAM, 4GB Graphics Card, 477GB of Storage and has a Core i7 7th Gen, 2.8GHz, currently has 375GB of free storage.

Tim.
 
That's a decent spec so it ought not to struggle. I'm on a second gen i7 that still pulls its weight.

Is that an SSD for storage or a spinning platter hard drive? For the age it could go either way. If it's a hard drive, moving to a solid state drive is a big step change - I reached the "oh dear this is getting slow, time to build a new one" five years or so ago and couldn't believe what a bottle neck the hard drive was when I idly went solid state instead. Absolute game changer.
 
Don't really agree with that the standard user is not attacked. On my network, someone came in via the Synology NAS (which had two factor authentication but apparently an exposed port) and from there, they encrypted all my online backups and two PCs and a server that is always on (which back up to the Synology drives, hence the way back into those machines once the Synology was compromised). All my PCs have anti virus (paid for versions) and did not stop it.

I could recover from my offline backup (taken once a month) so lost about 3 weeks worth of data). Since then, I also back up to iCloud and Onedrive.
 
A M series MacBook Air is appealing for the cost / year usage.

Alternatively consider a refurb laptop, I’d got a Microsoft Surface laptop which I picked up for £250 and is still plenty fast for most users (web browsing, emails, documents, streaming). MS hardware is fairly premium, battery life is great too. It’s been 2 years already, if I get another 2 I’ll be very happy.
 
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