E89 advise please

NS66

NS66

Member
Been an E85 2.5 owner for many years and have now sold it on and looking to replace with an E89.

I was looking at either another 6 cylinder 2.5/3.0 manual or auto but have seen a 2.0 28i manual close to me and made me consider as the performance is better than the 2.5 and VED cheaper. So anything to watch out for on this engine? would I be mad or should in stick to another 6 cylinder?

thanks in advance.
 
Contentious one that engine

Some love the ability to tune it easily, however the chain issues put a lot of people off especially at the age and mileage the cars are approaching
 
It is all a question of what you want?

The n/a N52 (2.5 or 3.0) is known to be the least painful choice, but your tuning options are all but none.
It does have the wonderful straight six sound though.

The 4 cylinder engines are all the same N20 2.0 unit with different states of tune (although the 28i does have bigger brakes I believe).
Perfectly tuneable to around 280bhp apparently, but there is a known issue with the cam chain guides in pre-2015 engines.
Most would advise factoring in £1k to get the work done if no proof of it having been sorted previously.

Then you have the 3.0 twin turbo N54 engine and a question of how much power would sir like? :cool:
Much loved unit for its ability to produce serious numbers. That said, the known issues with some (expensive) ancilliaries have to be borne in mind.

In simple terms.
If power is your thing, and you can cope with the occasional hefty bill, go with the 3.0 twin turbo as anything else would have you wishing for it anyway.
If you want an easier life, get an N52 in 2.5 or 3.0 and enjoy the experience of driving a really nice convertible.
I can't honestly find a reason to recommend a 4 pot in a convertible when a 6 is available! :love:

No doubt Pete (B21) will be along soon with a more comprehensive (and much longer) response which also won't be wholly different. :)
 
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Congratulations on selling your lovely red e85. I missed that development.
Just take look under the long bonnet of a 4 pot E89 and all that spare real estate.
It has to be a 30i N52 at least ideally. N54 great performance, but as stated can be costly too.
That classic bmw straight 6 imho in one form or another.
 
One sidenote regarding the N52:

Due to differences in the piston rings, the 2.5 (23i) tend to higher oil consumption up to 1l/1000Km on higher mileages. A better choice definitely is the 30i, but relatively rare.
 
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RobbiZ4 said:
One sidenote regarding the N52:

Due to differences in the piston rings, the 2.5 tend to higher oil consumption up to 1l/1000Km on higher mileages. A better choice definitely is the 30i, but relatively rare.
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Thanks - I didnt know that - was that the same with the E85? I must of had a good one as didnt use any oil at all between services.
 
Erudite-Idiot said:
It is all a question of what you want?

The n/a N52 (2.5 or 3.0) is known to be the least painful choice, but your tuning options are all but none.
It does have the wonderful straight six sound though.

The 4 cylinder engines are all the same N20 2.0 unit with different states of tune (although the 28i does have bigger brakes I believe).
Perfectly tuneable to around 280bhp apparently, but there is a known issue with the cam chain guides in pre-2015 engines.
Most would advise factoring in £1k to get the work done if no proof of it having been sorted previously.

Then you have the 3.0 twin turbo N54 engine and a question of how much power would sir like? :cool:
Much loved unit for its ability to produce serious numbers. That said, the known issues with some (expensive) ancilliaries have to be borne in mind.

In simple terms.
If power is your thing, and you can cope with the occasional hefty bill, go with the 3.0 twin turbo as anything else would have you wishing for it anyway.
If you want an easier life, get an N52 in 2.5 or 3.0 and enjoy the experience of driving a really nice convertible.
I can't honestly find a reason to recommend a 4 pot in a convertible when a 6 is available! :love:

No doubt Pete (B21) will be along soon with a more comprehensive (and much longer) response which also won't be wholly different. :)
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N20 owner here. Reasons to get one over a 6 pot might be economy. As @NS66 has noted, there's an extra 100 miles on a tank of fuel as compared to the 2.5 or 3.0, the 28i is quicker to 60 than both of them and you also pay £135 less in annual VED.

I would also add that the chain guide issue is vastly overstated although obviously the problem exists. But if you are buying what is going to be at least a 10 year old car (with the N20s being newer), then you would always need to factor in some sort of budget for a maintenance aspect of one sort or another.

Just to add a bit of balance!
 
NS66 said:
Thanks - I didnt know that - was that the same with the E85? I must of had a good one as didnt use any oil at all between services.
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Your E85 had the earlier generation M54 engine, and had only done 74K miles. My E46 Compact with the same engine did need occasional top-ups by the time it got to 100K.

Similarly I've had two N52 engined 3 Series on 6 figure mileages and they both needed regular top-ups, but not excessive according to BMW.

The downside with E89 models with the N52 is that they will be earlier models than the 4 cylinder turbo ones. If you were to consider the latter option maybe budget for a cam-chain tensioner replacement as a preventative measure?
 
Fady said:
N20 owner here. Reasons to get one over a 6 pot might be economy. As @NS66 has noted, there's an extra 100 miles on a tank of fuel as compared to the 2.5 or 3.0, the 28i is quicker to 60 than both of them and you also pay £135 less in annual VED.

I would also add that the chain guide issue is vastly overstated although obviously the problem exists. But if you are buying what is going to be at least a 10 year old car (with the N20s being newer), then you would always need to factor in some sort of budget for a maintenance aspect of one sort or another.

Just to add a bit of balance!
Click to expand...

Balance is always good and I appreciate the input from the N20 side.👍

Maintenance is a valid point amd necessary on any of these cars but i would prefer that to be suspension/tyres (roof 🙄).

As I said, if power (and 0-60) is important, then the N54 is going to be even quicker than the 28i.
That said, the N20 is a heck of a lot better on fuel!
I did try a 28i myself when I was looking.
Yes, it is quick, and it is more nimble at the front (less weight), but it just did not sound special in the way a BMW 6 does. 😍
The N52 3.0 in mine just makes me smile, and that is what matters above all else.
 
My 110k miles N52 2.5 burns 1 litre in 5,000 miles, all short journeys like 7 miles daily each way..hardly up to running temperature.
 
Just to add more 'balance', there were millions (if not billions) N20 engines made by BMW from 2011 to 2016 (when it was replaced by the B48, which has it's own issues). Only a very small percentage of engines have had camchain tensioner/ guide issues.
No-one knows why they fail for sure, but there is a theory that lack of regular oil changes can lead to premature failing.

The N20 is a good engine. Everyone on this forum seems to champion the N52 over the N20, but the N52 suffers from gasket oil leaks and water pump failures. Not serious problems with the N20.

A 4 pot 'blown' engine is superior in every way to drive than a n/a 6 cylinder of a similar power (except the noise, which can be easily remedied if required). And you can increase the power considerably by a very cheap remap of the ecu. You can't do that with n/a.

Prices of the 30i (and to a lesser extent the 23i) models have been extremely strong recently. I do wonder whether the 'camchain scaremongering' on forums such as this are responsible?

I have mentioned many times that my neighbour has a 2013 528i which has 140k miles on the clock now. He wouldn't know a camchain if he was smacked around the face with one and has no interest in car forums, yet his car is still going strong with only regular servicing.
I would bet a pound if he was a member of any BMW car forum he would have sold his F series long ago!

As my (20 year old) daughter would say "don't yuk my yum". :rofl:
 
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It's the same for any issues, you only read things about the few that have gone wrong rather than the many thousands that haven't!

But I'd still take an N/A 6 over a turbo 4 every time because I prefer how it revs freely to the red-line (and IMHO it is superior) without needing a "fake" soundtrack.

I've no idea, but I suspect an N20 cam-chain tensioner replacement wouldn't be cheaper than an N52 water pump replacement?

My 2005 330i with the N52 has done 130K and still performs brilliantly.

A 4 cylinder 5 series sounds about as appealing as a 3 cylinder Mini or 1 Series. :(
 
Mr Tidy said:
But I'd still take an N/A 6 over a turbo 4 every time because I prefer how it revs freely to the red-line (and IMHO it is superior) without needing a "fake" soundtrack.
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I now own an M54 3 litre. It's the first n/a BMW i have owned. Previously had 2 N20s, one B48, one N54 and a B58 (all blown).
I can confirm that the M54 does not 'rev freely' to the red line. The lack of low down torque makes it struggle to 'get going'. Ok it's aright once over 4k rpm. Yet all the blown engines were pretty linear from 1500 rpm until the limiter. Blown engines just provide torque (in spades) at low revs that a n/a can't, unless it's a HUGE displacement and they will be guzzling fuel that can only make the Iranians happy.
 
My 325ti Compact with the M54 revved happily to the 6,000rpm red-line.

My 3.0 Si Z4s made peak power at 6,600rpm and easily revved to the 7K red-line, but maybe not as ferociously as my MC that makes peak power at 7,900rpm with an 8K red line.

Turbo torque is for people who can't be arsed using the right gear!

And you never had an N20 Z4.
 
Engine problems probably stem from first owners trusting the "free" in warranty service schedule.
The first and only stamp in my cars service book is at 21k miles and 2 years old.
So was that the cars first oil change? N52 engine.
Are other engines more critical on oil changes.
 
flybobbie said:
Engine problems probably stem from first owners trusting the "free" in warranty service schedule.
The first and only stamp in my cars service book is at 21k miles and 2 years old.
So was that the cars first oil change? N52 engine.
Are other engines more critical on oil changes.
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Any turbo charged engine is going to be more critical on changes becuase of the greater demands placed on the oil.
 
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