I just need to try both engines out and then decide based on performance, sound, gearbox etc. MPG would be another factor but both perform similarly afaik. £1500 is quite steep though haha but I suppose you don't need to worry about it anymore
E89 M sport buying advice
- Thread starter aki
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At the summit of the picturesque fens
Just remember BMW made millions of N20 engines (in the 18/20 and 28i) for every model of car until 2015/6 when they replaced it with the B48 (which has it's own issues btw) . If they had all gone pop it would have been international news by now.
I have a neighbour with a 2013 528i which has done 130k. He wouldn't know a camchain if you hit him around the head with it and he has no worries driving his every day. He has had the car from new and it is serviced every 2 years, so it isn't pampered.
You're not wrong, plus online posts will mostly highlight issues instead of talking about problem free experience. I guess why I'm concerned about the timing chain is because my current car, an f20, is also known to have timing chain issues. The timing chain did get upgraded on the N20 engines but 2015 onwards do cost a premium compared to the rest.
I need to be like that neighbour of yours driving without worries
I've just seen a 20i on AT, don't want to create another post so I'll link it here. Its very low milage at 33k, full service history and even the timing chain replaced, though I'm not sure why at such a low milage. Seems like a good price compared to other 20i msport with similar miles.
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Still seems expensive for a 2012 car (pre facelift).
Does look a good one with a good spec, but just three months ownership AND a camchain would make me very wary.
For context: I sold a 2016 20i (manual) M-sport with 30k miles for £11,800 in Feb 2025 and that wasn't cheap. It had a fully loaded spec (as was a run-out car) and Estoril Blue which is a sought after colour.
I'm sure prices have only gone down since then, not up!
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Scottish Borders
Exactly it looks great and well maintained but just not too sure if the chain was preemptive. Like you said 3 months ownership and camchain, that is a bit strange.
It’s not really the chain that’s an issue more the plastic guides, they break into bits letting the chain go slack and causing catastrophic engine failure.
I pulled the engine from a N20 engined 118d this year at 98k miles with this issue, guides in bits, chain jumped, smashed whole the camshaft cradle, chain was so slack it wore a groove in the rocker cover so big it lost its oil, big end shot due to oil starvation, was bizarre it didn’t bend a valve. Chains were fine, but it had worn and broken the two top guides, so replacing them all plus chains is a must on anything over 80k miles really.
I pulled the engine from a N20 engined 118d this year at 98k miles with this issue, guides in bits, chain jumped, smashed whole the camshaft cradle, chain was so slack it wore a groove in the rocker cover so big it lost its oil, big end shot due to oil starvation, was bizarre it didn’t bend a valve. Chains were fine, but it had worn and broken the two top guides, so replacing them all plus chains is a must on anything over 80k miles really.
I currently have a 118d on 98k miles
. Mine sounds and drives fine but I will definitely get it checked soonCurious to know if there is any forum members on here who has had terminal timing chain failure? I have just done a forum search and didn't get any hits outside of those doing 'preventative' (which I read as expensive and unnecessary!) Did I miss them then 
This can be a problem with forums - they can save you money but they can also cost you. As @Pondrew points out, ignorance can also be bliss.
Yes I know sh*t can happen, but with the millions of units of the engine in existence, we'd all know someone first-hand if it was the catastrophe that is made out here.
Personally speaking, I'm comfortable enough not bothering with any so called 'preventative' maintenance not least because there is generally enough warning if the thing is about to go pop.
Car is a 2012 on 76K miles (covers circa 3K miles annually). Shock and horror - there is an outside chance that a 14+ year old car might develop an engine related fault!
This can be a problem with forums - they can save you money but they can also cost you. As @Pondrew points out, ignorance can also be bliss.
Yes I know sh*t can happen, but with the millions of units of the engine in existence, we'd all know someone first-hand if it was the catastrophe that is made out here.
But earlier in the thread there is talk of a car issue free and on 130K miles!
Personally speaking, I'm comfortable enough not bothering with any so called 'preventative' maintenance not least because there is generally enough warning if the thing is about to go pop.
Car is a 2012 on 76K miles (covers circa 3K miles annually). Shock and horror - there is an outside chance that a 14+ year old car might develop an engine related fault!
I'm aware of around 20 E89s that have had terminal cam chain failure..I'm aware of another 40+ that were in the process of cam chain failingCurious to know if there is any forum members on here who has had terminal timing chain failure? I have just done a forum search and didn't get any hits outside of those doing 'preventative' (which I read as expensive and unnecessary!) Did I miss them then
This can be a problem with forums - they can save you money but they can also cost you. As @Pondrew points out, ignorance can also be bliss.
Yes I know sh*t can happen, but with the millions of units of the engine in existence, we'd all know someone first-hand if it was the catastrophe that is made out here.
But earlier in the thread there is talk of a car issue free and on 130K miles!
Personally speaking, I'm comfortable enough not bothering with any so called 'preventative' maintenance not least because there is generally enough warning if the thing is about to go pop.
Car is a 2012 on 76K miles (covers circa 3K miles annually). Shock and horror - there is an outside chance that a 14+ year old car might develop an engine related fault!
Given the class action in the USA there's no smoke without fire..
Problem is you just don't know how poorly serviced the car was, use of earlier non API-SN+ API-SP oils, use of stop start etc etc
Our favourite N20 service agent does 3-6 a week..
FWIW the failure rate 'I see' on the N20 is more than almost all other issues on all other E89s bar roofs put together..
I agree completely..however there is good correlation between when BMW USA throws the towel in and a degree of the truth..they threw the towel on N54 HPFPs, E90 FRMs, N20 cam chains amongst others..
I agree its not every N20 goes south..but..compared to N52s where personally I've never heard of anyone ever have a serious engine issue..
I advise all my clients now either post 2015 N20 or N52..no N54s!
Do you know the specifics of how all theses cars have been treated/ driven/ serviced from day one, though?
For instance; I have a neighbour with a (very fragile) F430 Ferrari. He starts it up from cold and pulls out of his driveway. He tears off up the road at full pelt on a stone cold engine every time he uses it. I wince at what damage he doing to that highly-strung engine without any oil getting anywhere before he floors it. Now he is a bell-end with presumably no knowledge of an ICE, but so are many, many other drivers.
I constantly (and I mean weekly) tell my wife not to rev her car past 3k until the oil temp gauge is at least registering as warm, as she forgets (cos she doesn't understand or care). I have permanently put the dash into "all gauges" mode so she can see. It still isn't enough!
The plastic chain guides 'breaking' would make sense to be age related, rather than mileage. Yet it seems to be mileage (circa 70k) from where the troubles can start, rather than age of the vehicle from what I have read.
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Sadly there's no way to work it out..one guy's N20 blew up literally at 28k..a few I've seen 'go' before 50k..most seem to be in the 60k-90k area.
If you look at other work/corrective actions from various folks like the oil companies and the collective european manufacturers then they realised to late it was a big issue hence the big change in oil spec from API-SN to SN+ and SP which focuses on cam chain wear.
Certainly 18k oil change intervals, cheap oil, stop start all play a role..but when you buy how do you know those things..
Better not talk about bore score..
But that’s just the point Fady, there is no warning, once the chain starts ticking then it’s almost certain one guide has already gone south, or you get zero warning and the next boom…the guides simply let go one day.Curious to know if there is any forum members on here who has had terminal timing chain failure? I have just done a forum search and didn't get any hits outside of those doing 'preventative' (which I read as expensive and unnecessary!) Did I miss them then
This can be a problem with forums - they can save you money but they can also cost you. As @Pondrew points out, ignorance can also be bliss.
Yes I know sh*t can happen, but with the millions of units of the engine in existence, we'd all know someone first-hand if it was the catastrophe that is made out here.
But earlier in the thread there is talk of a car issue free and on 130K miles!
Personally speaking, I'm comfortable enough not bothering with any so called 'preventative' maintenance not least because there is generally enough warning if the thing is about to go pop.
Car is a 2012 on 76K miles (covers circa 3K miles annually). Shock and horror - there is an outside chance that a 14+ year old car might develop an engine related fault!
I’m the same as you, lots of unnecessary scaremongering out there, which I’m doing now admittedly, but I’ve seen it first hand, and for some fair outlay you can avoid a very expensive issue that is well known.
It’s a gamble but not one I’d personally take having had experience of it.
You can’t check them as the 4 chains are next to the bulkhead aki, it’s an engine out job, plus a lot of stripping down to get to the chains and guides, BMW want around £1800 plus parts afaik, I did it for £1k plus parts, around £350 with a clutch, so imho that’s around the ballpark you can get it done at an Indy for.I currently have a 118d on 98k miles
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