Another e85 roof issue 😵‍💫

1

10stb

Member
Hey guys

Had my project 2003 e85 for 6 months now and have been working through some issues.

The one I'd like to focus on is the roof.

When I bought the car, the roof didn't work, suspected roof motor which the seller supplied with the car.

I took the roof off, relocated the new roof motor to the boot (trunk) and all worked well on assembly.

I had a seperate issue with some warning lights which turned out to be a damp yaw sensor under the drivers seat (rhd).

I disconnected the battery (for 2 weeks) while I waited for an Ebay yaw sensor, fitted it and the warning lights disappeared.

It was at this point that my roof issues began.

Symptoms were no movement, no motor noises or lights at all when pressing the roof switches.

I assumed no power so checked the 3 fuses and all were good.

The car hadn't moved from my garage.

Power was getting to the roof module but not past it to the switches.

I got an Ebay roof module and put it in. It didn't work at 1st but then started working a day later.....until it stopped working.

The car still hadn't moved from my garage.

No roof faults were shown on the code reader.

I decided to take it in to bmw for a more thorough diagnostic.

In usual bmw fashion they wanted to fit new parts to eliminate possible issues but couldn't guarantee anything.

The technician wanted to replace the roof module but said if it didn't fix it, it could be a broken cable that could take hours to find at £150 an hour.

I got the car back home to investigate myself.

I took the roof off again yesterday and flipped it over onto a panel stand to test all the cables with a multimeter. No breaks or kinks. The only ones I didn't test in the roof were the 4 thin ones that go to the sensor on the nearside (uk) roof ram. They were in good condition though.

I hooked up a 12v supply to both the main roof motor and the front latching mechanism motor. Both worked as they should.

I tested the length of cable (2 wires) that go from near the roof module to the relocated roof motor. Both were good.

I've now refitted the roof, buttoned everything up (including parcel shelf, microswitch and red manual realease tab) but I'm no further forward....except I now have 3 roof modules 😵‍💫.

The original one that was working fine until the battery was disconnected, the 1st replacement that worked for a short while till it didn't...and the 3rd one that has made no difference at all.

I've looked through loads of posts regarding roof issues to try and shed some light on my issue.

Technician at bmw said that the roof module needs to be paired but lots of members here have said that it doesn't.

My issue has remained unaltered. No roof operation, no lights when pressing the roof switches.

Both motors operate when hooked up to a 12v supply, no breaks found in roof wiring.

Apart from the trip to bmw, the car hasn't moved from its spot in my garage. The battery is fully charged (well 90%).

Apologies for the long post but wanted to provide as much info as possible.

No doubt many of you will be rolling your eyes and saying "not another bloody roof" 😂

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Steve
 
Are you 100% sure there isn't a break in the wires that go up the left side of the roof, hidden inside the black sheathing? Usually start to break down were they fold double, about level with the rear top corner of the window. You will probably be able to feel a 'knot' of wire at that point. Open up the sheath and you may find one or two starting to break down, giving intermittent symptoms.
 
Was just going to say the same- whenever I see a roof with ‘nothing’ going on I immediately think loom break issue
 
enuff_zed said:
Are you 100% sure there isn't a break in the wires that go up the left side of the roof, hidden inside the black sheathing? Usually start to break down were they fold double, about level with the rear top corner of the window. You will probably be able to feel a 'knot' of wire at that point. Open up the sheath and you may find one or two starting to break down, giving intermittent symptoms.
Click to expand...
I didn't open up the sheath but tested each wire individually with a multimeter. Each read 0.2 ohms showing no breaks. I felt all the way along as well and no bumps
 
MikeyH said:
Have you made sure your roof switch is okay and doesn’t have an intermittent fault?
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This had crossed my mind. I've been trying to track down a wiring diagram as the DSC, cigar lighter and low warning tyre light is there as well.

It's just occurred to me that 2 of the warning lights that the yaw sensor flagged up was the DSC and low pressure warning light. The other was the handbrake light (which was orange).

I wonder if replacing the yaw sensor has affected the roof switch.

I would have thought that it would show on bmw's diagnostic 🤔
 
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My wife's focus CC had the same sort of thing happening, it would only open half way and go back to close again. We had the roof wiring loom renewed and it's been fine since.
 
10stb said:
I didn't open up the sheath but tested each wire individually with a multimeter. Each read 0.2 ohms showing no breaks. I felt all the way along as well and no bumps
Click to expand...
Pretty good bet it’s nothing to do with the yaw sensor. I would still recommend opening the sheath and physically checking those wires.
 
enuff_zed said:
Pretty good bet it’s nothing to do with the yaw sensor. I would still recommend opening the sheath and physically checking those wires.
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I'll take a look next weekend. Plus point is I've done it a couple of times now so got roof removal down to under an hour now 😂
 
10stb said:
I'll take a look next weekend. Plus point is I've done it a couple of times now so got roof removal down to under an hour now 😂
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You don't need to remove it this time. Manually move it back about half way and support it there. Unscrew the front plastic panel and lower it so you can see the loom. Undo the P-clips for a bit of slack, then you can open up the sheath at the point I mentioned and look for damage. To begin with they don't completely break, hence the intermittent issues.
 
enuff_zed said:
You don't need to remove it this time. Manually move it back about half way and support it there. Unscrew the front plastic panel and lower it so you can see the loom. Undo the P-clips for a bit of slack, then you can open up the sheath at the point I mentioned and look for damage. To begin with they don't completely break, hence the intermittent issues.
Click to expand...
I'll take a look. I dont have an intermittent problem. I've got nothing. No lights on the roof switch.

I'd seen on a previous post about removing fuse 12, turning the key to position 2 and then putting the fuse back in while keeping an eye on the roof switch lights. Red single blink would indicate roof module coming online. Mine showed nothing 😮‍💨
 
10stb said:
I'll take a look. I dont have an intermittent problem. I've got nothing. No lights on the roof switch.
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I was working on the theory that it didn't work, then it did, then it didn't. Sort of intermittently. ;)
Anyway, you have enough to be looking into for now, so I'll leave you to it.
 
I know nothing about E85 roofs or wiring....but reading this thread I have a thought.
The yaw sensor was replaced because it had got water ingress and corroded. Which means there has been water leaking into the car at some point.
Is there any of the roof wiring under the carpets, either side? Maybe the switch wiring??

You could have disturbed a dodgy wire when replacing the yaw sensor?

Could be a corroded wire/ earth connection due to moisture??

Just a guess.
 
Pondrew said:
I know nothing about E85 roofs or wiring....but reading this thread I have a thought.
The yaw sensor was replaced because it had got water ingress and corroded. Which means there has been water leaking into the car at some point.
Is there any of the roof wiring under the carpets, either side? Maybe the switch wiring??

Could be a corroded wire/ earth connection due to moisture??

Just a guess.
Click to expand...
Always worth a check once water has been in there, but the lowest point of the roof wiring is probably the switch in the centre console.
 
Pondrew said:
I know nothing about E85 roofs or wiring....but reading this thread I have a thought.
The yaw sensor was replaced because it had got water ingress and corroded. Which means there has been water leaking into the car at some point.
Is there any of the roof wiring under the carpets, either side? Maybe the switch wiring??

You could have disturbed a dodgy wire when replacing the yaw sensor?

Could be a corroded wire/ earth connection due to moisture??

Just a guess.
Click to expand...
Like many e85's, the drainage hole where the roof motor sits got blocked which ended up submerging the roof pump. It then overflowed over time behind the passanger seat (where the roof module is). I'll check to see if there's any wiring under the carpet at the weekend.

Going to follow enuff_zed's suggestion and strip the sheathing in the roof back to check the wires individually. They showed to be ok on a multimeter but you never know. 22 years worth of roof up and down may have taken their toll.

Will update at the weekend 😎
 
Hi Guys

Just an update. The wiring tested as no breaks but after taking on board your thoughts I wanted to be 100% sure.

I lifted the pump side of the roof and lowered the headlining.

Stripped back the sheathing from the front latching motor to the roof module. There was a kink where the roof folds (see pic) but no broken wires. I cut out the kinks, soldered and shrink wrapped the repairs, then retaped the loom.

I tested the roof cables before repairs and again after.

Reassembled everything. No change.

Still no roof operation, no lights when pushing the centre console roof switches.

Front latching motor and roof motor work as they should when hooked up to a 12v supply.

I got another roof switch to see if that would make a difference. No change.

I just seem to be banging my head against the wall with this car.

I now have 3 roof modules and 2 switch units.

Does anyone know if the roof modules need pairing to the car. What I've read on the forums suggests not...but the bmw technician said yes.

Would value anyone's thoughts.

I have a roof wiring diagram that I've been working through.

Some of the cables that go from the roof module to the roof switches go via relays behind the fusebox. Does anyone know which ones.

I like a challenge but this car is doing my head in now.

Cheers

Steve
 

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Another update....

You're not going to believe this. Put the 3rd roof module on. Had a cuppa and wrote post above.

Just gone back out to the garage and now the roof is working as it should 🤷

Maybe repairing the cables has done the trick...or something has moves when I've put it back together.

I'm not holding out much hope as it did this before with the 2nd roof module.

Thanks for your advice guys....particularly enuff_zed. Top man 👌🏻
 
Damn. I wasted your time, sorry.
I’ve changed several control modules. Never needed any form of pairing.
 
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