Roof service past error A6A5 and trunk stuck open shells in but not latched
- Thread starter khalidfh
- Start date
What an honor.
Best info ever! I'll head over to you and we'll fix all issues together. Currently it's rainy and "fresh" in Bavaria.
The JunctionBox is responsible for opening the lid! It has to be selected, than try to unlock the trunk lid.
The CTM is responsible only for the SoftClose, but it's a different function.
In short:
Fuses are never the source of an issue, only a reaction on it!
CTM at first checks all sensor as well as the actor values before starting to run the hydraulic pump. If any signal is wrong or missing, it won't start.
That's the 'static view".
In addition, typically a broken wire will lose it's connection while beeing bended. CTM stops, the roof shell may 'fall back" a bit and the two broken ends will be back touching each other.
That's the "dynamic view".
In total there are three 180° bows in the hydraulic harness:
- the lower, visible one
- the upper, invisible one in the rear roof shell
- the inner one, on the opposite side of the lower bow, but currently stretched to 0° (zero degree) while you have a look at it
This doesn't help in any way. TBH, forget it.
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What come and go into my mind is, can I disable hydraulic power and make it manually operated. Once it is in position either open or closed roof, then power the lock to latch on position.
And insure no flashing lights or siron and working windows and trunk lid...
Is it possible....
.
And insure no flashing lights or siron and working windows and trunk lid...
Is it possible....
.
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Update:
I could not find broken wire just insulation cuts here and there but wires still not fully separated espectially for rear window heater as shown in the figure below
Also I found unplugged connector:
manage to find its female socket and plug it. I thought this will result in flashing red goes off but no and still roof system appears on the dash. but I did not lock the two pressure bolts over the pump.
My plan is to lock two pressure bolts and see if this will have any affect. if no success I will remove the red line of the battery for two hours and reconnect.
Also, this line is leaking oil. can I unplug the end from the cylinder so I can replace this portion only??
I uploaded a video:
I could not find broken wire just insulation cuts here and there but wires still not fully separated espectially for rear window heater as shown in the figure below
Also I found unplugged connector:
manage to find its female socket and plug it. I thought this will result in flashing red goes off but no and still roof system appears on the dash. but I did not lock the two pressure bolts over the pump.
My plan is to lock two pressure bolts and see if this will have any affect. if no success I will remove the red line of the battery for two hours and reconnect.
Also, this line is leaking oil. can I unplug the end from the cylinder so I can replace this portion only??
I uploaded a video:
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OMG, these pictures all look like a nightmare. This is exactly how you shouldn't work on these special cars!
All the cables there were violently ripped down! That's how you destroy the entire structure. Not good, badest idea at all.
This looks like a total loss.
A hydraulic hose is broken in the upper bend (not on the hydraulic ram), so the entire hydraulic wiring harness needs to be replaced as single hoses are taped-in and can't be replaced individually (your video, 0:27 min). Keep in mind, that all hydraulic hoses are already pre-broken due to it's mechanical overloading.
It's a very complex operation that takes 1 day (or another for newbies)!
HoweTo: Guide for replacing old hydraulic lines
Hint:
Be very carefull with the two brass "screws" on top of the hydraulic ram. These are valves and not just screws and may only be turned a maximum of 2 turns. If overturned, jou'll destroy the complete hydraulic pump.
All the cables there were violently ripped down! That's how you destroy the entire structure. Not good, badest idea at all.
This looks like a total loss.
A hydraulic hose is broken in the upper bend (not on the hydraulic ram), so the entire hydraulic wiring harness needs to be replaced as single hoses are taped-in and can't be replaced individually (your video, 0:27 min). Keep in mind, that all hydraulic hoses are already pre-broken due to it's mechanical overloading.
54377311084 Set, hydraulic line with wiring harness
Getting this part replaced, all i.e. sensor wiring is integrated and will be renewed as well.It's a very complex operation that takes 1 day (or another for newbies)!
HoweTo: Guide for replacing old hydraulic lines
Hint:
Be very carefull with the two brass "screws" on top of the hydraulic ram. These are valves and not just screws and may only be turned a maximum of 2 turns. If overturned, jou'll destroy the complete hydraulic pump.
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This situation is really bad, was not expected that. I asked the previous owner and he said there was a leak and workshop managed to stop it, I will show you an image and you will be very OMG... wait for it.
The white paints on the hinges is Never-Seez Compound, I followed this video:
Great, this is my plan but i will save some money till next summer. since then i will play with these wires and hoses.
Thanks great and detailed explanation by LordLolzeye, looks like hard job to complete the replacement.
What I cannot understand why it is showing "roof system" without any fault code!!!
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Well, there is a difference between technical issues like broken wires, defective sensors and on the other hand, a logically issue like a not perfectly locked roof.
To be honest, IMHO absolutely nonsense I'm warning against over and over again.
You will catch dust, but never get into the hinges itself, where always a soft metal bushing is integrated.
Is it because I lift the shells from the trunk to the top position?
Shall I return them to where they were?
I remember the problem started when the shells went to the trunk but not latched and the lid stuck open, is that mean the locking mechanism not working or maybe a sensor not catching the location of the shells so the CTM cannot initiate locking!!!!
I will clean them with WD40
I remember I red about the bushing and no need for greasing but that after I did greasing....
Even WD40 isn't a recommendation. It's a more or less agressive cleaning spray. Just take a tissue and remove the grease.
You don't have to push anything back. The roof is able to restart/continue from every position, if all sensor values are ok, physically and logically.
As I don't know the status of each sensor, i currently can't answer your question. Each sensor should deliver a clear status on INPA. If any fails, INPA shows graphically a black bullet on the right column of the views.
The best would be to present the different INPA views regarding the sensors. In addition, the pages of the prerequisites.
Great advice, thanks
I don't have INPA but ISTA and I can take screen shot of each sensor status.
I will work on the car today and get back to you.
Your help and patience are much appreciated Robbi, very thankful....
Hopefully not in Arabian.
Here, this is the first time I found fault code for CTM, maybe after I connect the connector near top shell
No description but here is the details:
and here is the state reading "sorry so many pages"
when ISTA read state some of them alternate between "not operated" and "not available" not sure if that means anything or just the way ISTA read
Here we go:
- List of fault codes
The "MS roof shell2" code is definitely a hint on a broken wire or based on your unplugged connector.
What's the reason for all the other faultcodes in the following list? That's very unusal, as they still seem to be present.
Best would be, to delete all fault codes an re-scan the car again to reduce the amount of other fault codes.
- CTM fault code
That's an important hint: "broken wire" often means broken insulation as well, with in the following a short between the two sensor wires or the roof's metal depending of the current bending angle.
- "...when ISTA read state some of them alternate between "not operated" and "not available"
Maybe that happens due to the unplugged connector or as written above, a shorted wire in the upper or inner bow of the hydraulic harness.
- CTM List of roof sensor states
This view represents the sensor status of one of your former pictures from the video:
Typical view of a (temporarily) broken or short-circuited sensor cable in conjunction with a broken hydraulic hose, recognizable by the hydraulic oil leaking out over the seat on the right side.
There is no microswitch in the roof shell to be replaced!
A first step would be to temporarily re-wire the microswitch roof shell 2 on the right. Plug-in the loose connector, connect the two wires (brown & green/brown) i.e. with an external wire replacement down to the lower bow or even better down to the black 26 pole plug at the rear end of the CTM.
After that, the roof should be operable normally using the two buttons on the dashboard to move it into an optimal working position
However, the hydraulic wiring harness needs to be replaced. Replacing individual hoses is pointless, as all four hoses in the rear roof shell are already damaged and will soon break as well.
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OK, I reconnect the connector and replace 4 wires.
BUT still
This video shows what happens when I press the button
This video shows read state
It is not latching thats why it is stuck
I think I will pack the shells into the trunk and see what will happen
BUT still
This video shows what happens when I press the button
This video shows read state
It is not latching thats why it is stuck
I think I will pack the shells into the trunk and see what will happen
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This is configuration of ISTA.
This video using scanning tool
Notice that hydraulic when I press the button no activation
I think CTM cannot get the situation.
Top shells on the roof, but not latched, rear module "trunk lid" is closed but not locked.
This status is not at any sequence of closing or opening events.
Here, to the left sensors and microswitches reading at certain positions, to the right is ISTA reading, not sure how I will compare the two but wil go back to lock at sensor chart.
So I will raise the rear module to open position and try to press the buttons and see what happen. If no success, Next I will pack the shells to the trunk and raise the rear module and press the buttons.
Top shells on the roof, but not latched, rear module "trunk lid" is closed but not locked.
This status is not at any sequence of closing or opening events.
Here, to the left sensors and microswitches reading at certain positions, to the right is ISTA reading, not sure how I will compare the two but wil go back to lock at sensor chart.
So I will raise the rear module to open position and try to press the buttons and see what happen. If no success, Next I will pack the shells to the trunk and raise the rear module and press the buttons.
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