Z4M S54 oil?

Three conflated ideas

Frequent oil changes is always always a great idea..a great oil on extended intervals / lots of stop start is not going over the long term do as well as a fractionally 'lesser' oil much more frequently changed.

If you have inherited a new car /engine then there's the issue of is it really clean inside..in which case running an oil high in detergents for at least one change /short period of time is a great idea.

Modern spec oils by exclusion will never include 50+ weight oils as those specs call for 30w and now some are even 12w 0r 20w.

What modern oils do have are some of the later additives to help cam chain wear and detergents.. avoiding clogging up cats, dpfs etc.

So what you need ideally is an oil that met the original oil spec but exceeds that spec in areas like volatility, shear strength etc..

So currently the oils that have a high ester content are the current kings for an old motor like the S54!

Redline and Fuchs are the two kings of ester based oils.. others market esters but refuse to disclose the actual content.,

There is a very very sad web site Bob the oil guy where people wax lyrical on all these various oils FWIW
 
I remember having discussions with (Simon?) of OpieOils when it was quite new, and started collecting the relevant oil data sheets (for the specs) & safety sheets (for some of their chemical make up) notes for each of the oils I was interested in.

This started all the way back in the the 1990s when I had the Corrado VR6 and BMW e34 M5s.

But back then, trying to spot the 'fake' fully synthetics vs the 'true' fully synthetics was a knack in itself...as there was no agreed definition back then. I always says that if it was from a mineral-oil base (so Group I, II, III) then it should only ever be referred to as semi-synth, and it would need to be Group IV/V synthetic ester-based to be a true fully-synth.

But I'm not that worried as much now, and will use almost anything that meets the spec I need, and is currently any fully-synth from Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Fuchs, Millers, Motul, etc.

Of course there's always going to be a compromise somewhere...unless you're happy to change your oil every week between doing trackdays (10w60) and 500 mile commutes (0w40?) to save fuel - we obviously need a 0w70 oil to cover all bases ;)
 
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AndyBeech said:
:thumbsup:Why do you hate Castrol so much? :LOL:

Regardless of all the ChatGPT guff, it's the only one that is 'long term' tested, I don't think anyone's saying it's a holy grail.
Some people thought Millers was ok to use until there seemed to be a pattern of it chewing through cam followers.
As mentioned, if it ain't broke......
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Sorry if any offence caused. None meant, I don't hate any oil. It's just oil. Common sense says to me that if 80% of engine wear happens at startup and shortly after then flow is king at that time. The redline is right at the top of the 100c hot viscosity standard of 5w50 and just below the bottom of the hit viscosity scale for 10w60 but it flows much better at startup. A couple of U.S s54 and s65 engine builders prefer it.

I would not ever use a run of the mill 5w50. It's too thin at the hot end.

A lot of people do think tws is the holy grail and go on and on about how the engine was designed with that oil in mind and no other 10w60 is good enough. . I just happen to think that it's science and it's the specs of the oil that count more than the name on the bottle. For summer I user liqui moly 10w60 which based on top end rattle at start still takes too long to get to the top end for my liking but the additional protectetion at higher temps is probably worth it.

Opening poster asked what oil people used so I answered. A question was raised about the suitability of the 5w50 so I tried to explain the research I have done and the science behind my decision. Not hating on anything.:)
 
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Last word on thus. Bimmerworld recommends redline 15w50 for S engines out of warranty. Their reasoning is on their website although they do push redline suspiciously hard but the science is the science.

For info here is the specs of the 15w50 vs the 5w50 I use.

Key Spec Comparison​

PropertyRed Line 15W-50Red Line 5W-50
SAE Grade15W-50 redlineoil.com+2TMI Racing Products, LLC+25W-50 TMI Racing Products, LLC+3redlineoil.com+3redlineoil.com+3
Viscosity @ 40 °C~ 138 cSt TMI Racing Products, LLC+22to4wheels+2~ 130 cSt redlineoil.com+2TMI Racing Products, LLC+2
Viscosity @ 100 °C~ 19.6 cSt redlineoil.com+2TMI Racing Products, LLC+2~ 21.0 cSt TMI Racing Products, LLC+3redlineoil.com+3shop.sclubricants.com+3
Viscosity Index (VI)~ 162 redlineoil.com+1~ 186 TMI Racing Products, LLC+3redlineoil.com+3shop.sclubricants.com+3
CCS (Cold Cranking / low-temp)65 Poise @ –20 °C TMI Racing Products, LLC+160 Poise @ –30 °C redlineoil.com+2redlineoil.com+2
Pour Point–45 °C–45 °C shop.sclubricants.com+2redlineoil.com+2
HTHS (High-Temperature, High Shear) @ 150 °C~ 5.8 cP TMI Racing Products, LLC+1~ 5.0 cP redlineoil.com+2redlineoil.com+2
NOACK Evaporation Loss~ 6 % (1 hr @ 250 °C) TMI Racing Products, LLC+1~ 6 % redlineoil.com+2redlineoil.com+2
API / ACEA Service RatingsAPI SN/SM/SL/CF ; ACEA A3/B3/B4 redlineoil.com+2TMI Racing Products, LLC+2API SN/SM/SL/CF ; ACEA A3/B3/B4 MAPerformance+3redlineoil.com+3shop.sclubricants.com+3
 
To make it even more polemical. I use 15w50 M1. HTHS is a bit lower at 4.7 but I don’t track the car so I never see more that 100c so super high HTHS is of no benefit. As already said, look at the spec and make sure it matches your application needs but don’t go on the bad wagon repeating internet fluff
 
AndyBeech said:
Non caused at all, just wondered what Castrol had done to you ;) I've got no loyalties to any brand like you say, it's just oil. People can use whatever they like :thumbsup:
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We had a belligerent poster on the old M5Board who was trying to claim a BMW M specialist (who owned 3 of these himself) should pay for their engine rebuild because he'd recommended to his customers with older cars (above 100,000 miles), and to those on the forums to move away from the BMW recommended grade of oil (10w40) to 10w50 to help with the expanding tolerances in the ageing engines.

Ultimately the belligerent poster was banned for a while, and then set himself up as an e34 M5 expert (with zero mechanical training), but it goes to show how partisan some owners can be.
 
Does anybody know where I can buy Castrol Edge Titanium 10w-60? I need 5.5 litres.
Halfords only seem to sell it in 4 litres, good price though £47.
I live South Manchester/North Cheshire.
Thanks..
 
Beemingallover said:
Does anybody know where I can buy Castrol Edge Titanium 10w-60? I need 5.5 litres.
Halfords only seem to sell it in 4 litres, good price though £47.
I live South Manchester/North Cheshire.
Thanks..
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I'd just get 2 of those, as it'll still be cheaper than 4L + 2L is elsewhere.
 
Just a final note for the engine designed for castrol tws issue and the subject of using other oils and viscosities based on climate.

Page 124 from the first e46 m3 manual 2001

Viscosity ratings
Viscosity is the oil flow rating as esta-
blished in SAE classes.
The selection of the correct SAE class
depends on the climatic conditions in
the area where you drive your BMW.
Approved oils are in SAE classes
5W-40 and 5W-30.
<
These oils may be used for driving in all
ambient temperatures.

This changed in 2002 however 10w60 was only preferred not mandatory.

2002 manual.

Should it not be possible to purchase
an oil approved by BMW, you can also
use other oils for adding smaller quanti-
ties between oil changes as an excep-
tion. The following information must be
specified on the package:
1. Viscosity
preferred: SAE 10W-60
or as an alternative: SAE 5W-40 or
SAE 10W-40
2. Specification
preferred: API SJ/CF
or as an alternative: API SJ
(also SK, SL, S etc.).

This seems to stay in the m3 manual until end of production. So my assumption is that the engine was developed and tested using the same spec oil as all other bmw engines of the time being in the
XW-40 range and then the preferred Viscosity was changed in response to the rod bearing issue. Either that or the accountants over ruled tte engineers as dealers would have had to stock an additional oil.

Over the years the internet myth that castrol tws was designed for the engine during its development took hold and now has very deep roots.

There is clear scope to use different oil on a non track use car depending on climate. Obviously if you thrash your car consistently hot climate on every run as a daily driver then 10w60 it should be.

But if you do shorter runs then it seems there is room to use something like 5w50 to get to the vital areas quicker on cold start.
 
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286k miles on dealer services ( 10W60 ? ) with 15,000 mile oil change intervals
Assuming the original engine,

This would be proof 10W60 is more than competent to take care of the S54














 
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