It’s a roof fault Jim, but not as we knew it..

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:25 pm

Had a strange one this morning..had been -7c overnight, car was cold soaked...

Left the roof up for the first 2 miles to allow moisture to blow off, put the roof down, went and did a couple of errands..pulled into re-fuel..bong..just parked in the fuel station..

Re-fuelled, went for a precautionary hoon, 10miles later more bongs..tried to close the roof and I could only get roof to part close..lid up, glass on top, boot lid down but no further progress..reversed the process and limped home..tried Protool and Foxwell readers, both had same codes...

Strangely not the usual codes...no codes associated with sensors / cut wires..

Look up revealed unusual circumstances of cold roofs not Ewing happy if one part is warmer than other and this is enough to throw an error..

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/unde ... s.1222745/

Cleared codes, left room up to warm in the sun, later run showed no faults..

Reminds me of a very nasty crash at Milan airport where an exec jet parked overnight, rolled inverted on take off killing all onboard..turned out one wing was in the sun, one wasn’t, that was enough to change the lift characteristics of the two wings beyond the ability of the crew to compensate....

flybobbie · Post by **flybobbie** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:51 pm

How does it know A698 occurred, must be sensor, not necessarily broken.
Being cold perhaps just on and off the edge of detection, mechanical switch.
My roof failure with broken wire finally came to light next day after frost night.
(Milan crash reminds me of Brum crash, ice on wings rolled on takeoff.
I heard it on morning radio news, looked at my frost covered car through kitchen window and said, ice).

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:09 pm

Yup could be a precursor...

Amazing stuff hoar frost..used to knock about 20 knots of our aircraft before we put the anti-ice on..

RobbiZ4 · Post by **RobbiZ4** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:55 pm

Pbondar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:25 pm Strangely not the usual codes...no codes associated with sensors / cut wires..

Look up revealed unusual circumstances of cold roofs not Ewing happy if one part is warmer than other and this is enough to throw an error..
...

Well, it's important to keep in mind, that each of the several steps of an opening or closing process is time monitored. In case of very cold temperatures the 6 hydraulic rams could operate slower than usual and exceed internal time limits of the CTM.

I saw this "speed-fault" several times in the past, mostly as a follow-up fault.

flybobbie · Post by **flybobbie** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:46 pm

Would make sense to time out in the event of a jam.
My roof seems move positive since i released the pressure on the pressure dump brass screws and re-tightened them, when fixing roof.

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:38 pm

RobbiZ4 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:55 pm
Pbondar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:25 pm Strangely not the usual codes...no codes associated with sensors / cut wires..

Look up revealed unusual circumstances of cold roofs not Ewing happy if one part is warmer than other and this is enough to throw an error..
...
Well, it's important to keep in mind, that each of the several steps of an opening or closing process is time monitored. In case of very cold temperatures the 6 hydraulic rams could operate slower than usual and exceed internal time limits of the CTM.

I saw this "speed-fault" several times in the past, mostly as a follow-up fault.

Thanks for that insight, obliged

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:20 pm

I think this message is mostly aimed at RobbiZ4 although I'd be delighted at anyone who has solved the same issue!

So..I reported after a flawless 3+ years of operations after a very cold night, and after operating the roof successfully I got roof fault icon in red whilst stationary in fuel station.

Fault re-appeared a few times and went on way home.

Read fault codes A6A4,A698,A69E which appear not to be related to the normal broken wires /sensors etc.

So today drove the car to the garage to get the new 200 cell cat pipe fitted.

So this time switched off the audio and observed closely.

Car unlocked on remote a ok.

Once car started red roof fault light briefly illuminated.

Drove approx 2 miles then noticed strange ticking sound, irregular frequency eminating from boot area /felt like almost under rear window.
This sound was independent of faults but seemed speed related..stopped completely when stationary and then sped up, like a flapping belt stuck in a door, but coming from rear area, a bit like clacking relays but again haphazard in repetition interval.

Noticed that when roof fault light was on, then windows would not operate for that period.

Got to garage and decided to cycle roof.

Roof folded and packed, but motor seemed to still run whilst roof close button remained pressed (maybe they do that anyway), but windows would not come up to complete cycle. No roof fault light displayed.

On trying to bring roof back up, sequence would operate to the point where top shell was locked in place, boot lood down but rear shell would not move and motor kept running until roof close button released.

Pressing and holding rood button key a second time would cyclle the clam shell into correct position but again windows would not come on roof close button. Using all windows up button on drivers door closed all windows..no fault light shown.

So looking at what has happened between perfect response and now, the only relevant actions were to change the rear light clusters..

So was pondering whether somehow, the CTM module connectors were disturbed or in the process of changing the rear liht clusters the FRM has had some strange fit.

A full scan showed no faults in any systems..

Any bright ideas?

RobbiZ4 · Post by **RobbiZ4** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:44 pm

Did you already replace both microswitches coupling lock in the past?
If not, you have to.
You'll need in addition 2x2 M3 screws as replacement, 4x 5mm long as the original screws have to be drilled out.

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:57 pm

RobbiZ4 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:44 pm Did you already replace both microswitches coupling lock in the past?
If not, you have to.
You'll need in addition 2x2 M3 screws as replacement, 4x 5mm long as the original screws have to be drilled out.

Hi RobbiZ4..I've been fortunate to have had to do zero repairs..so far..

Which of the 8 micro switches are you referring to pls?

Is the based on the symptoms and your previous correlations of faults?

RobbiZ4 · Post by **RobbiZ4** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:44 pm

I'm refering to (F).

Almost 50% of these mysterious faults are based on aged MS coupling locks, mostly without any fault records.
These are mounted up-side-down on the front side of the hydraulic rams on both fenders inside the boot.

54377228585
54377228586

There are some traps, if you'll try it for the first time:
- don't touch the hydraulic
- you need to prop up the trunk lid, if you remove one of these couplers
- you have to mark the positions around(!) the 3 nuts on each of the couplers with a white(!!) edding pen
- 4 old screws to be drilled out
- 4x new M3x5mm screws, not available from BMW
- the new plugs dont' fit into the old ones in your car if it was built before 2013. I generally destroy the new plugs, pull only their pins out the new housings and put the new pins into the old plug housings. Don't buy the expensive BMW adapter cables, as these have to be soldered either.
- a crimping plier is required to re-crimp the 2x2 new pins whithout the green gummis. If not, the new pins don't fit into the old housings.

Have a look at the following pictures taken from the video of germinator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3rd9_eHxes

: MS_couplinglock1.jpg (58.76 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

: MS_couplinglock2.jpg (64.37 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:58 pm

RobbiZ4 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:44 pm I'm refering to (F).

Almost 50% of these mysterious faults are based on aged MS coupling locks, mostly without any fault records.
These are mounted up-side-down on the front side of the hydraulic rams on both fenders inside the boot.

Have a look at the following pictures taken from the video of germinator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3rd9_eHxes

MS_couplinglock1.jpg

MS_couplinglock2.jpg

Muchas Gracias

RobbiZ4 · Post by **RobbiZ4** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:59 pm

Sorry, made some updates...

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:08 pm

RobbiZ4 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:59 pm Sorry, made some updates...

Obliged!

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:01 pm

Just an update, bought two microswitches as per RobbiZ4 recommendation from Sopers with Z$ Forum discount, around £33 for both, posted.

Out of interest Brexit has f$%ked up things, two of my German suppliers now refuse to ship to UK come whatmay. Others add £18 handling on a £40 order!

Had a look at it in detail, Dietcokeman did some great detailed write ups (whatever happened to him? He as a poster seems to no longer exist?)..however, with no garage and concerned about getting half way then needing another sensor/switch/etc and having the car exposed to the elements I've chickened out and its into B for BMW in Glasgow on Wednesday.

Some other Zedders on FB Z4 Scotland have had good service at reasonable prices from them on their roofs.

Typically, today, plus 13c, strong sunshine, roof unloaded perfectly, no faults whilst bouncing along very bumpy roads and good speeds and roof went back up A OK at the end!

We'll see what Wednesday brings, thanks for all the help so far!

Pbondar · Post by **Pbondar** » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:42 am

Despite another 360 plus miles and several roof operations the roof has behaved perfectly...

I still have a strange irregular clicking sound coming from what appears to be the rear window area with the roof up, speed related, doesn’t happen when stationary. Code reader shows no faults.

Got a trip to the Isle of Lewis next week, so that’s around 600 miles, so will take the risk on it.

See little point taking it to the BMW Indy with no faults showing.

Micro switches arrived..how you get the little screws in past the spring seems interesting..

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