A
Silverstar
Senior member
That doesn't look too minor to me :wink: 
I for one would be interested to see the end result. 
I for one would be interested to see the end result.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Me too!Silverstar said:That doesn't look too minor to me :wink:
Will advise on tyhe journey and when its done
A
Anonymous
Guest
AlienZed said:Ha ha your so complex,me am a simple sole wi simple needs.
Having this fitted tues at halfrauds,that should be fun.
Hi Moz,
Whats the width of the digital signal processor?
How many megaflops?
Clock speed?
Time division spatial correctrion?
Number of channels?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
seriously that's a great value deal you have there..defintely part of the 80/20 design rule!
A
Anonymous
Guest
hellojohn-e89 said:
They are for the footwell 6" woofers, the Audison 8" are the sub woofers for behind the seats..
A
Anonymous
Guest
john-e89 said:
All the speakers except the 6” woofers in the footwell SHOULD be plug n play..the woofers need new connectors and maybe some ‘adjustment’ at the back...
My set up is the common 11 speaker set up..
The mid price range oem amp is replaced by the Audiotechnicia Match 7 that in theory is plug n play..for all bmw mid range setups not the 14 speaker / HK set ups..
Unfortunately the Z4 E89 has a unique channel / setup so it will need the Match harness ‘editing’
The alpine drives the sub wooofers on the external channel of the Match 7
I’m replacing that alpine with a mono amp alpine as a result of discovering the ‘uniqueness ‘ of the Z4 E89 speaker ‘ amp set up..
I’ve run out of channels so either it’s the woofers on one channel or the sub woofers..
I’m assuming 250 watts rms on the subwoofer channel should get the buggers working..
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ref bridging / sub woofers..
The oem subwoofers are 2 ohm and run on separate channels..
So you can do n things
Add a mono amp or bridged twin channel and run the oem subwoofers either in parallel if your amp can take it...not many will or series ..
Run a 4 channel amp bridged into each sub woofers or run a 2 channel amp
In my case since from an audio perception nobody perceives stereo low frequencies I’m parallel up two new sub woofers and running them off a class d mono amp for heat n power reasons since the unit will have to be hidden away in the boot far from mashing the roof mechanisms
This way I can square the 7 channel issue on the Match 7 by using its 8 channel line out to drive the sub woofer amp..
The oem subwoofers are 2 ohm and run on separate channels..
So you can do n things
Add a mono amp or bridged twin channel and run the oem subwoofers either in parallel if your amp can take it...not many will or series ..
Run a 4 channel amp bridged into each sub woofers or run a 2 channel amp
In my case since from an audio perception nobody perceives stereo low frequencies I’m parallel up two new sub woofers and running them off a class d mono amp for heat n power reasons since the unit will have to be hidden away in the boot far from mashing the roof mechanisms
This way I can square the 7 channel issue on the Match 7 by using its 8 channel line out to drive the sub woofer amp..
A
Anonymous
Guest
Just an update on my progress..
I changed the 100mm door mid range and BMW door tweeter for the Eton B100N ..in theory plug n play..for me..popping off the door cards was emotionally traumatic...I hate all those (one time) snap plastic bits..
There is not enough depth because of the much fatter magnet to cinch the speaker down flush on its screws..I tried and ended up with a most horrible grating noise from them, thankfully when I backed of the screws the sound returned to normal..phew.
The center speaker and the rears next to the seat belts were replaced with the Eton B100XN which carries an integated tweeter and bulit in cross-over
At that point I fired it up on the stock BMW mid range 676 amp and was very pleased with the result..
I wish I gave up at that point..
The replacement of the woofers in the front kick panels and the rear subwoofers behind the seats looked tricky in terms of effort and really suggested that they needed more firepower so throught I would change the amp first..
I then replaced the OEM 676 amp (which has some DSP capabilities) with the Audiotec Fischer Match 7 all singing DSP amp..
The problem I hit was as follows..
The 11 speaker Hi-FI version on the E89 is NOT the same as almost all other BMWs with the 676 amp..
The cable provided by AF fits perfectly almost all BWs with 676 apart frrom the E89..
Although the 42 pin connector on top of the amp matches the 42 pin connector supplied as a pigtail by AF they are not wired up the same on the E89..
Specifically althought the 676 amp is described as '7 channel amp' it is in fact 8 channel amp...
On all other BMW 676 installations 7 channels are used..
Front speakers (L/R), rear speakers (L/R), 2 sub woofers (normally under the front setats) and a centre speaker
However on the E89 it goes the same but the two woofers in the front kick areas sit in parallel on a mysterious 8th channel!
If you plug the stock pigtail in it all works apart from the front woofers..
The Match 7 fortunately whilst it only has 7 amplifiers does have an 8th channel to feed a subwoofer amp or something else
So,,after much discussion with AF via the dealer I ended up as follows..
The Match 7 with a Bondar modded pigtail drives all the 11 speakers apart from the two subwoofers..these are now driven as two in series of a subwoofer amp hanging off the non amped 8th channel!
If you are still reading this then it gets worst before it gets better..
The Match 7 is sold with a preconfigured sound file for 'cabriolets' which is designed for the standard speakers..
Of ourse as we now know for the E89 there are two woofers which AF ignores..the Bondar mod changes the cabel to allow them to be driven but now the sound file no longer matches..
So now you are into full DSP geek mode..
That is..
You need to measure all the distances from all the speakers to the driver and use the DSP porgramming tool to enter these..
You need to decide on the type /magnitude/frequency of any low / hi pass filters required
You need to decide how much gain to use on each channel as your new speakers are different efficencies
Then you need to run a sound sample with a very expensive mike to see how the system actually performs
then repeat..then repeat..
So at this stage I put it all back together..without doing the above ..I'll fit the subwoofers and woofers then do that..
My frustrations reached a crescendo as the cheap chinese connectors and cables I purloined refused to solder up properly causing a missing channel and a its working / no its not on another channel..
Driving the standard subwoofers with a nice 250w RMS class D amp quickly got them distressed..so time to hack the car to bits to get the Audison sub woofers in..then dismantle the front to get the Rockford Fosgate woofers in..
To be fair the existing woofers worked quite well on my half way house and don't sound as shite as teh subwoofers do..
So my net conclusions are..as most vendors suggest..
Swap the front and rear speakers plus centre and keep the existing 676 amp
or Get a Match 7 DSP, leave the standar speakers and make a fudge / ignore the woofers..
Battle on, spending a lot of time and money to hopefuly get to the promised land..
To be fair I can see/hear the potential..I just need to get to the end now..I've become a DSP geek..is that a benefit?
Anyway forwarned is forarmed..
I changed the 100mm door mid range and BMW door tweeter for the Eton B100N ..in theory plug n play..for me..popping off the door cards was emotionally traumatic...I hate all those (one time) snap plastic bits..
There is not enough depth because of the much fatter magnet to cinch the speaker down flush on its screws..I tried and ended up with a most horrible grating noise from them, thankfully when I backed of the screws the sound returned to normal..phew.
The center speaker and the rears next to the seat belts were replaced with the Eton B100XN which carries an integated tweeter and bulit in cross-over
At that point I fired it up on the stock BMW mid range 676 amp and was very pleased with the result..
I wish I gave up at that point..
The replacement of the woofers in the front kick panels and the rear subwoofers behind the seats looked tricky in terms of effort and really suggested that they needed more firepower so throught I would change the amp first..
I then replaced the OEM 676 amp (which has some DSP capabilities) with the Audiotec Fischer Match 7 all singing DSP amp..
The problem I hit was as follows..
The 11 speaker Hi-FI version on the E89 is NOT the same as almost all other BMWs with the 676 amp..
The cable provided by AF fits perfectly almost all BWs with 676 apart frrom the E89..
Although the 42 pin connector on top of the amp matches the 42 pin connector supplied as a pigtail by AF they are not wired up the same on the E89..
Specifically althought the 676 amp is described as '7 channel amp' it is in fact 8 channel amp...
On all other BMW 676 installations 7 channels are used..
Front speakers (L/R), rear speakers (L/R), 2 sub woofers (normally under the front setats) and a centre speaker
However on the E89 it goes the same but the two woofers in the front kick areas sit in parallel on a mysterious 8th channel!
If you plug the stock pigtail in it all works apart from the front woofers..
The Match 7 fortunately whilst it only has 7 amplifiers does have an 8th channel to feed a subwoofer amp or something else
So,,after much discussion with AF via the dealer I ended up as follows..
The Match 7 with a Bondar modded pigtail drives all the 11 speakers apart from the two subwoofers..these are now driven as two in series of a subwoofer amp hanging off the non amped 8th channel!
If you are still reading this then it gets worst before it gets better..
The Match 7 is sold with a preconfigured sound file for 'cabriolets' which is designed for the standard speakers..
Of ourse as we now know for the E89 there are two woofers which AF ignores..the Bondar mod changes the cabel to allow them to be driven but now the sound file no longer matches..
So now you are into full DSP geek mode..
That is..
You need to measure all the distances from all the speakers to the driver and use the DSP porgramming tool to enter these..
You need to decide on the type /magnitude/frequency of any low / hi pass filters required
You need to decide how much gain to use on each channel as your new speakers are different efficencies
Then you need to run a sound sample with a very expensive mike to see how the system actually performs
then repeat..then repeat..
So at this stage I put it all back together..without doing the above ..I'll fit the subwoofers and woofers then do that..
My frustrations reached a crescendo as the cheap chinese connectors and cables I purloined refused to solder up properly causing a missing channel and a its working / no its not on another channel..
Driving the standard subwoofers with a nice 250w RMS class D amp quickly got them distressed..so time to hack the car to bits to get the Audison sub woofers in..then dismantle the front to get the Rockford Fosgate woofers in..
To be fair the existing woofers worked quite well on my half way house and don't sound as shite as teh subwoofers do..
So my net conclusions are..as most vendors suggest..
Swap the front and rear speakers plus centre and keep the existing 676 amp
or Get a Match 7 DSP, leave the standar speakers and make a fudge / ignore the woofers..
Battle on, spending a lot of time and money to hopefuly get to the promised land..
To be fair I can see/hear the potential..I just need to get to the end now..I've become a DSP geek..is that a benefit?
Anyway forwarned is forarmed..
Hells teeth, as PITA’s go that’s right up there...!! Well done for keeping going, tempting to throw it all back in the boxes and say the hell with it I’d imagine. Keep us informed please, very interesting thread.
Last year I listened to a BMW shooting brake which Source sounds in Sheffield did, they did away with all the speakers except two mid ranges in the doors, tweeters, and an under seat sub all run off the standard head unit but going through a digital processor and new amp, the quality and power were simply incredible, I couldn’t believe how good it was, very pricey however but......
A
Anonymous
Guest
So I now have fitted all 11 speakers and done my first serious twiddlles with the DSP laptop software that controls the setup of the AudioFischer 7 UP BMW Match DSP amp..
Working through were I got to before..
Fiited the 6.6 Rockford Fosgate woofers on the footwells...taking the trim out wasn't too bad..worse than the door cards but not by much.
Fitting the new woofers was much more tricky..
As said the DSP amp wiring had to be re-cut to send what was the sub woofer amps /wires to the woofers..fortunately via TIS I could see that the two woofers although originally wired up in parallel, only did this in the boot near the amp..so I could cut the link and use the existing factory wiring to drive the wooofers from the DSP amp in the boot..
Getting the old woofers out was OK, then the trick to fit the different flannge layout of the new woofers was to make an adapter plate out of ply to square the circle pun..
The new woofers are much butcher and better looking than the old Ukrainian BMW woofer
THe BMW connector had to be chopped off and flying leads used with a bit of in location soldering required..
Getting the new woofers in was a pig, the large magnet just wanted to keep attaching itself to the bodyshelf..fancy afte rmuch fff-ing they were in..on the drivers side a piece of plasttic to guide the sound was discarded as teh plywood spacer had raised the woofers up, but still with enough clearance when the trim went back..
The subwoofers from Audioson oozed qulaity compared to the OEM sub woofers..
The subwoofers were a bitch to fit..the actual four screws and the OEM connector meant that the actual swap, when the sealing gasket let go was a cinch..but..
Getting to them, even with the 'shortcut' was an endurance event..15 pieces of plastic and fittings and several dozen screws n clips..then the fingers of a mouse gynecologist allied to the power of a hydraulic robot were required to prize enough trim to get them in there..
I wired the two 4 ohm subwoofers in parallel and drove tehm via the non amped 8 th channel on the Match & to a Alpine 250 watt RMS class D amp..normally they are 2 ohm for BMW but I used the 4 ohm variant to get 2 ohms in parallel to get the full 250 watst + RMS available..
The it was a simple matter of screwing everything back together tucking the wiring away
I lost one 10mm socket and one screw never to be seen again somewhere in the Z4 and had two plastic push fit clips left over..not bad out of over 100 pieces at one time..
Then after a false start with zippo due to the start wire pulled out of the socketa nd palced abck in the wrong hole the laptop connected and sound issued forth..
Its a whole missive on setting one of thse DSP amps up so I'll keep it brief..
The default 'cabriolet' setup was no good..designed for OEM speakers and a 4 seater cabriolet so speakers distances wrong and no woofer support..
So after much bed time reading and many scotches (Malt, Blended, Single Grain) I came up with my own plan..
Measured the distances from speakers to driver
Set to zero all equaliser settings for the OEM speakers
Adjusted sound levels on all 8 channels based on stated SPL for each speaker
Adjusted crossover / frequency bands on a mixture of manufacturers specs plus the 'good dsp programming guide' from AudioFischer..
And heh it was pretty good..cancelled warm bath and razor blades..
So much more power and control..700 watts rms ish vs 140 watts rms ish ( at best of the 676A DSP amp)
Bass via the woofer was way way better as was the woofers..the Eton speakers once the time delays and frequency ranges /crossovers were adjusted came into their own..
So after 5 days hard labour getting there..
I plan to do a 50 hour run in on the speakers then doa full blown soup to nuts set up as per the good DSP guide..but that's for another day..
The sound and staging are much much better..worth the effort..now yes..two days ago when it all seemed to be going backwards no..
Of course having done once you could re-do it in 1/4 to 1/2 of the time..
Would I have done it with what I know now? er No..but maybe my best days of open heart surgery on modern cars is past me..
The only simple option since the DSP 7 doesnt work out of the box for the Z4 (but apparently does for all other 676A cars) is to do the 6 door / cabin speakers plus centre speaker..gets you 65% of the way there for 15% of the effort and 35% of the cost..
Your opinions may vary..
Working through were I got to before..
Fiited the 6.6 Rockford Fosgate woofers on the footwells...taking the trim out wasn't too bad..worse than the door cards but not by much.
Fitting the new woofers was much more tricky..
As said the DSP amp wiring had to be re-cut to send what was the sub woofer amps /wires to the woofers..fortunately via TIS I could see that the two woofers although originally wired up in parallel, only did this in the boot near the amp..so I could cut the link and use the existing factory wiring to drive the wooofers from the DSP amp in the boot..
Getting the old woofers out was OK, then the trick to fit the different flannge layout of the new woofers was to make an adapter plate out of ply to square the circle pun..
The new woofers are much butcher and better looking than the old Ukrainian BMW woofer
THe BMW connector had to be chopped off and flying leads used with a bit of in location soldering required..
Getting the new woofers in was a pig, the large magnet just wanted to keep attaching itself to the bodyshelf..fancy afte rmuch fff-ing they were in..on the drivers side a piece of plasttic to guide the sound was discarded as teh plywood spacer had raised the woofers up, but still with enough clearance when the trim went back..
The subwoofers from Audioson oozed qulaity compared to the OEM sub woofers..
The subwoofers were a bitch to fit..the actual four screws and the OEM connector meant that the actual swap, when the sealing gasket let go was a cinch..but..
Getting to them, even with the 'shortcut' was an endurance event..15 pieces of plastic and fittings and several dozen screws n clips..then the fingers of a mouse gynecologist allied to the power of a hydraulic robot were required to prize enough trim to get them in there..
I wired the two 4 ohm subwoofers in parallel and drove tehm via the non amped 8 th channel on the Match & to a Alpine 250 watt RMS class D amp..normally they are 2 ohm for BMW but I used the 4 ohm variant to get 2 ohms in parallel to get the full 250 watst + RMS available..
The it was a simple matter of screwing everything back together tucking the wiring away
I lost one 10mm socket and one screw never to be seen again somewhere in the Z4 and had two plastic push fit clips left over..not bad out of over 100 pieces at one time..
Then after a false start with zippo due to the start wire pulled out of the socketa nd palced abck in the wrong hole the laptop connected and sound issued forth..
Its a whole missive on setting one of thse DSP amps up so I'll keep it brief..
The default 'cabriolet' setup was no good..designed for OEM speakers and a 4 seater cabriolet so speakers distances wrong and no woofer support..
So after much bed time reading and many scotches (Malt, Blended, Single Grain) I came up with my own plan..
Measured the distances from speakers to driver
Set to zero all equaliser settings for the OEM speakers
Adjusted sound levels on all 8 channels based on stated SPL for each speaker
Adjusted crossover / frequency bands on a mixture of manufacturers specs plus the 'good dsp programming guide' from AudioFischer..
And heh it was pretty good..cancelled warm bath and razor blades..
So much more power and control..700 watts rms ish vs 140 watts rms ish ( at best of the 676A DSP amp)
Bass via the woofer was way way better as was the woofers..the Eton speakers once the time delays and frequency ranges /crossovers were adjusted came into their own..
So after 5 days hard labour getting there..
I plan to do a 50 hour run in on the speakers then doa full blown soup to nuts set up as per the good DSP guide..but that's for another day..
The sound and staging are much much better..worth the effort..now yes..two days ago when it all seemed to be going backwards no..
Of course having done once you could re-do it in 1/4 to 1/2 of the time..
Would I have done it with what I know now? er No..but maybe my best days of open heart surgery on modern cars is past me..
The only simple option since the DSP 7 doesnt work out of the box for the Z4 (but apparently does for all other 676A cars) is to do the 6 door / cabin speakers plus centre speaker..gets you 65% of the way there for 15% of the effort and 35% of the cost..
Your opinions may vary..
A
Anonymous
Guest
JimsZ said:Wow, I bet that cost a packet... Looks ace though
Im still procrastinating on the door speakers...
Would you recommend going with the Eton B100N or trying something else?
Of course there are many options..the Eton is a well proven if not cheap option...they are optimised for BMWs as well as others..
I would go with them again....
The improvement especially on the crispness and sound field were very good..they just show up the woofer a bit and the subwoofers a lot...
Well done on keeping the faith....!! :happyclap:
Tbh seeing all that my inclination would be/is to install a standalone system but running off the standard head unit thus keeping the idrive etc, through a digital processor to two amps using all new wiring right through so not chopping into the OEM loom at all, I can’t help thinking it wouldn’t be a great deal harder to run new cables in after all the faff you’ve already had. Maybe wrong but that’s what I’m thinking if I keep my E89.
Anyway damn good effort.
Tbh seeing all that my inclination would be/is to install a standalone system but running off the standard head unit thus keeping the idrive etc, through a digital processor to two amps using all new wiring right through so not chopping into the OEM loom at all, I can’t help thinking it wouldn’t be a great deal harder to run new cables in after all the faff you’ve already had. Maybe wrong but that’s what I’m thinking if I keep my E89.
Anyway damn good effort.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Dru2000D said:How much was all that if you don't mind me asking?! Looks like a seriously interesting swapout for the standard speakers
Well it was as follows approx...
Match DSP amp £600
Alpine subwooofer amp £125
Door speakers £225
Rear Speakers £205
Centre Speaker £110
Woofers £180
Subwoofers £330
Sample mic £125
Plus soldering iron/connectors/wire etc £50 ish
Plus probably around 10 man days total effort..
Not cheap....