Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 9/9/2019)

Specific discussion about the E89 2009 Z4 (sDrive35is, sDrive35i, sDrive30i, sDrive23i)
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Pbondar
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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 4/9/2019)

Post by Pbondar » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:44 am

john-e89 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:29 am
Pbondar wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:43 pm
Dru2000D wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:34 pm
How much was all that if you don't mind me asking?! Looks like a seriously interesting swapout for the standard speakers :thumbsup:
Well it was as follows approx...

Match DSP amp £600
Alpine subwooofer amp £125
Door speakers £225
Rear Speakers £205
Centre Speaker £110
Woofers £180
Subwoofers £330
Sample mic £125


Plus soldering iron/connectors/wire etc £50 ish

Plus probably around 10 man days total effort..

Not cheap....
Not willy waving but I’d be very interested to hear what that lot sounds like compared to the Burmester in the Boxster, a rather mad outlay of.....*cough*...£2700....It has a class D sub amp then a 850 watt class A/B amp for the rest, silk domed tweeters, Air motion transformers mids etc, it sounds very very good, for the outlay plus the fact it’s factory fitted so no need to rip the car apart it’s worth it imo, I don’t begrudge to price for the sound quality, would make an interesting comparison to yours.
I suspect that the highly subjective assessment of sound systems will make the forums discussions on tyres pail into insignificance :rofl:

I think a conclusion as you imply is that paying ‘lots’ for a sound upgrade when ordering a new car is small change compared to a ground zero re-work...bearing in my case that the head unit wasn’t touched with whatever limitations that has..

I’m off for a weekend to the Perth run, top down all the time, so will see how it checks out..

I can only be grateful it’s a car and not an aircraft..the decimal point would have moved at least one place to the right... :thumbsup:
2012 E89 20i MSport Auto Atacama Yellow, Fully loaded in its day.. Changes (Re-map/Wheels/Tyres/Spoiler/Steering Wheel/Shock Absorbers/ARB/Rear Diffuser/Brakes/Speakers/Amps/ASD delete) Upcoming changes (Quaife LSD) Full Whippy here!

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john-e89
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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 4/9/2019)

Post by john-e89 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:38 pm

Pbondar wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:44 am
john-e89 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:29 am
Pbondar wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:43 pm


Well it was as follows approx...

Match DSP amp £600
Alpine subwooofer amp £125
Door speakers £225
Rear Speakers £205
Centre Speaker £110
Woofers £180
Subwoofers £330
Sample mic £125


Plus soldering iron/connectors/wire etc £50 ish

Plus probably around 10 man days total effort..

Not cheap....
Not willy waving but I’d be very interested to hear what that lot sounds like compared to the Burmester in the Boxster, a rather mad outlay of.....*cough*...£2700....It has a class D sub amp then a 850 watt class A/B amp for the rest, silk domed tweeters, Air motion transformers mids etc, it sounds very very good, for the outlay plus the fact it’s factory fitted so no need to rip the car apart it’s worth it imo, I don’t begrudge to price for the sound quality, would make an interesting comparison to yours.
I suspect that the highly subjective assessment of sound systems will make the forums discussions on tyres pail into insignificance :rofl:

I think a conclusion as you imply is that paying ‘lots’ for a sound upgrade when ordering a new car is small change compared to a ground zero re-work...bearing in my case that the head unit wasn’t touched with whatever limitations that has..

I’m off for a weekend to the Perth run, top down all the time, so will see how it checks out..

I can only be grateful it’s a car and not an aircraft..the decimal point would have moved at least one place to the right... :thumbsup:
Yep that’s precisely why I think it’d be a good comparison. If you’d thrown your gear to an installer I’m thinking the total price fitted plus equipment might not be far off the Burmester.

Have a good weekend and please let us know your thoughts on the sound. :thumbsup: :driving:
Massey Ferguson 718 GTS....what were they thinking.....and yet I still bought one..... :oops:
M roady
E89 35is
MR2 mk 2

Just too many toys.....

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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 9/9/2019)

Post by Pbondar » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:12 pm

Following on from the Perth sunday trip with the Forum guys and some twiddling I can update my experiences..

Before I left I used the PC based DSP tool to set up the time delay between each speaker and the drivers position..the difference was very noticeable..the sound stage image appeared for the first time, not perfect but it was there..nothing that radical to standard stereo amp users..but marked..

I adjusted the relative gain on each amp taking into account the published sensitivity per watt so they were 'normalised'

I set the crossover points on each of the 8 channels based on the published frequency responses of the speakers

I then set the equalisation to 'flat' as the the supplied settings were for the 'cheap' BMW Hi-Fi speakers..

I set off..

Mindful that the speaker suppliers state that 10-50 hours of 'running in' is required of the speakers..

Well..the detail was awesome..like looking at a politicians indvidual nose hairs on a 4k 65" TV!!!

The sound was very bright..a bit like someone who has set up max bright /max contrast on the TV, quite wearing..

Plenty of power / woomph..but...

What worked bass wise in the garage was lost over the wind roar /road noise at speeeds greater than 60 ish mph..

So better but..

Got back..read the excellent and now more understandable DSP magazine..

http://audiotec-fischer.de.dedivirt284. ... 08e6b1.pdf

So today got the sample mike out

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

Followed the sound real time analysis section (still with me??) and played 'pink noise' whilst sampling each set of speakers in turn..

Then pressed the 'eq' button which then loaded a 'corrected' equaliser set up for each of the pairs of speakers, except the cenre one on its own..

Result...'smoooooth' and effortless sound..power and fidelity without any of the brittleness or harshness..

Bit like driving a 50l turbo diesel..effortless power and capability ..

Quit whilst the going was good..

The advice is to make lots of itertive changes and refine your sampling / adjustment technique..which does seem the way forward..

A far cry from 'plug n play'

So the journey will continue..probabaly now 80%+ on the way to the final set up..

To state the obvious..its difficult to have a compromise that works at all road speeds, top up, top down, top down windows down..

So I'm going for the top down, windows up, national speed limit perfection..requries more bass uplift..
2012 E89 20i MSport Auto Atacama Yellow, Fully loaded in its day.. Changes (Re-map/Wheels/Tyres/Spoiler/Steering Wheel/Shock Absorbers/ARB/Rear Diffuser/Brakes/Speakers/Amps/ASD delete) Upcoming changes (Quaife LSD) Full Whippy here!

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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 9/9/2019)

Post by john-e89 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:25 pm

Really enjoying this thread, hats off for your perseverance and attention to detail. It won’t happen but I’d love to hear this install. :thumbsup:
Massey Ferguson 718 GTS....what were they thinking.....and yet I still bought one..... :oops:
M roady
E89 35is
MR2 mk 2

Just too many toys.....

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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 9/9/2019)

Post by Pbondar » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:09 am

A further issue has become more apparent, that of the Active Sound Design

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_sound_design

The new setup has ‘amplified’ pun..the artificial sound generated by the ASD unit that sits between the head unit and the amp...

I now have a much more pronounced ‘boyze noize’ fake set of engine sounds...it’s very cleverly done but fake...

Reading up the ASD is effectively a DSP device with a repertoire of ‘brum brum’ Sounds taking its inputs from the usual suspects of mode, throttle position etc...

Unfortunately you can’t simply disable / remove it as the logic circuitry for the amp goes through it...so if you remove it no audio for anything period..

Some people allege it can be coded out with a serious coding toy...seems a bit hit n miss..

So I think I’m going to get one of these bypass wiring harnesses

https://technicpnp.com/product/asd-bypass-harness/


To remove the increasing unpleasant effect..

A side effect alledged is that the quality of the audio going into the amp will be improved...

I’ll let interested parties know in due course..
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2012 E89 20i MSport Auto Atacama Yellow, Fully loaded in its day.. Changes (Re-map/Wheels/Tyres/Spoiler/Steering Wheel/Shock Absorbers/ARB/Rear Diffuser/Brakes/Speakers/Amps/ASD delete) Upcoming changes (Quaife LSD) Full Whippy here!

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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 9/9/2019)

Post by z4pilot » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:13 pm

Have to say I can appreciate the level of work and effort that's gone into this and I'm sure it sounds way better than a standard system, but I always think high end car systems are all a bit 'emperors new clothes'. How good is good enough? Surely at the end of the day, you're still listening to music in a wind tunnel/tin can - you'll never reach a level of fidelity that justifies the outlay - or am I just missing the point?
2008 Coupe, Montego Blue, Champagne leather, Piano Black interior trim

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Minor Audio Upgrade (updated 9/9/2019)

Post by Pbondar » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:18 pm

z4pilot wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:13 pm
Have to say I can appreciate the level of work and effort that's gone into this and I'm sure it sounds way better than a standard system, but I always think high end car systems are all a bit 'emperors new clothes'. How good is good enough? Surely at the end of the day, you're still listening to music in a wind tunnel/tin can - you'll never reach a level of fidelity that justifies the outlay - or am I just missing the point?
Hi you are right on both counts :thumbsup:

But then you get to

Why not a Kia Picanto
Why Michelin vs Kumo
Why 35is vs 18i
Etc etc...

Your right on this one..with what I know now I wouldn’t ..well maybe ..consider it my gift to mankind / Z4 forum....

I do enjoy my music and I do enjoying driving my Z...so therefore it’s not a bad combination...

Trouble is now I have it’s like the Kia..do I want to go back? No..
2012 E89 20i MSport Auto Atacama Yellow, Fully loaded in its day.. Changes (Re-map/Wheels/Tyres/Spoiler/Steering Wheel/Shock Absorbers/ARB/Rear Diffuser/Brakes/Speakers/Amps/ASD delete) Upcoming changes (Quaife LSD) Full Whippy here!

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