Waxing - The Emperor's New Clothes?

[StevenH72]

This is something that I have wondered for a while, I've spent the best part of the last 18 months trying to convince myself that I am wrong, maybe my eyes are poor, but I just cannot see it.

My car was fully detailed 1k miles before I bought it and as such the paintwork is in very good condition. I am meticulous with cleaning (pre-wash, 2 bucket method, 3 mitts, dry with a damp microfibre and QD), there are a few swirls, but in general it's in great condition.

Anyway, when detailing I have never seen any additional 'shine' from glazing / waxing / sealing my car.

My girlfriends fathers car has fairly marred paintwork, I ran over it with some Autoglym SRP, not perfect, but really made the car look better. Applied some wax after, but again didn't notice any extra shine.

I've watched many videos, spoke to many enthusiasts and nodded knowingly at how much shine a car has gained from the very expensive wax applied.

I love watching the Ammo NYC videos, but whenever he speaks about adding Sealant post correction, for long lasting protection and wax for a deeper fuller shine....I've never noticed any difference. I've used many sealants / waxes on my paint and whilst some benefit is gained when the few swirls I have are 'filled', I've not noticed (for non colour added products) any difference in 'shine' between various products.

I've never seen a 50:50 (for non polish videos) for any glaze / sealant / wax and actually noticed any difference between the two panels.

I know that I'll be shot down here but everybody with their favourite product (Poorboys Black Hole doesn't count as in contains colour), but I would challenge somebody to show me a 50:50, which doesn't include any polishing where the particula wax / glaze / sealant has made a noticeable difference.

Effectively, I've come to a position whereby I believe that the marketing strategies of the detailing companies and boasting of individuals has led to a situation of waxes being treated much in the same vain as the emperor's new clothes. Everybody claims to see the benefits, but I'm not actually sure that they can.

P.s. I will continue to wax my car....but for protection, not shine. I'll polish for shine.

 

[Z4M-2006]

Polish or glaze adds the most "shine"..

Wax adds the protection...

Like you I have not noticed a huge improvement with most waxes.. The 2 that definatly did add was scholl concepts the rock and zymol royale..
They didn't add shine as such, but evened out the paint and left it with a lovely flat glow..
As far as sealers are concerned, optimum optiseal added a lovely slickness to lighter cars..

My sealer of choice is now art de Johnson, this topped over 50 cal show glaze is an awesome combo that's super easy to use and the finish and durability is brilliant..

 

[PerryGunn]

My sealer of choice is now art de Johnson...

Interesting, have you tried any of the other ArtDeShine products? I have the price list and have read some good things about them but haven't convinced myself to pull the trigger on an order yet

 

[buzyg]

I just use autoglym wax polish. You mean they are two different things. Use the same on my daily, as I do on the Zed and they both look shiney.

 

[Z4M-2006]

My sealer of choice is now art de Johnson...

Interesting, have you tried any of the other ArtDeShine products? I have the price list and have read some good things about them but haven't convinced myself to pull the trigger on an order yet

Yes..

I have used quite a few of the products..

Matt at Obsidion is fairly close to me and i whizz over for a brew sometimes and see what he has on the shelves.

Everything i have used is very very good.... When i run out of all my current stock i will be using the "art" stuff.Although i have acquired loads of products and stuff over the years so it maybe a while. I even had a sell off a while back,hardly made a dent

 

[pvr]

StevenH72, can't give you 50:50, but if you saw my (former) M next to another one in the same colour (on one of the last meets there were two), the difference was significant in richness of the colour and shine.

 

[jan_tekin]

I dont have a 50:50 but id recommend the Abyss, currently on discount as well

http://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/index.php/sale-items/the-abyss-new-hellshine-range.html

 

[pvr]

Only srhutch can give you 50:50 as he is the only one that never finishes a job :lol:

 

[n1nja-frog]

It's ALL in the prep.

People claiming to distinguish between any different types of waxes I take with a pinch of salt tbh.

'Xxxx wax gives real 'depth' to the paint and makes the flake 'pop'' - While it may add 1% the truth is the other 99% is gained in reducing damage on the paint and refining well.

 

[paulgs1000]

It's an interesting point but I do see a difference after applying Meguires carnuba wax on top of Auto Glyms Super Resin - It seems to sparkle on contours and panel edges and give a richer deeper shine. I wouldn't bother if I didn't make a difference. I also think it feels different when you run a hand over the paintwork. . . .

So definitely not the Emperor's clothes for me.

 

[StevenH72]

StevenH72, can't give you 50:50, but if you saw my (former) M next to another one in the same colour (on one of the last meets there were two), the difference was significant in richness of the colour and shine.

...But, you never waxed your car. The richness in your paint colour, as you've said before, is due to the UV protection of your paint protection system (can't remember its name).

It's ALL in the prep.

People claiming to distinguish between any different types of waxes I take with a pinch of salt tbh.

'Xxxx wax gives real 'depth' to the paint and makes the flake 'pop'' - While it may add 1% the truth is the other 99% is gained in reducing damage on the paint and refining well.

I think this is the point I am making. Z4M-2006 obviously has his favourite products and claims that Zymol Royale gives a nice finish etc. I just don't buy it. Car's that are well prepped, with minimal defects look good. I've recently waxed my car and can't notice any difference in shine.

I'm not looking for product recommendations here, I want evidence.

Here is an interesting video, that made me change my mind (or at least help me clarify my beliefs):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiIEHn-9qo8

I do accept, that on less than perfect paint, wax or anything that fills the swirls will help a car's shine, but do you really need an expensive product to do that? Would a cheaper product not work just as effectively. Is Zymol Royale ever required, does it offer any benefit?

 

[Z4M-2006]

What waxes have you used Stephen ?

Waxes arent a swirl filler..... That isnt there job...

 

[n1nja-frog]

Waxes can and do fill in defects to an extent - which is where the 'wet' look comments come from I think.

I do think, especially when it comes to boutique waxes like Swissvax, Zymol, Definitive et al - it's the experience and knowledge of such a high end exclusive product that add's something in peoples eyes to the finish. A placebo effect if you will.

But I get it - it's the same as buying branded jeans for £200 compared to some for £50. They look near enough the same and perform the same job but they're perceived differently and feel different - because you and others know and acknowledge they're a luxury brand.

 

[n1nja-frog]

What waxes have you used Stephen ?

Waxes arent a swirl filler..... That isnt there job...

There was discussion on DW by a few of the more experienced members / detailers about the filling properties of waxes - it was a very interesting subject actually.

Off the top of my head Dave KG and the Polished Bliss guys both agreed on the above - enough experience there to convince me!

 

[Z4M-2006]

Dont get me wrong.... Any product put onto paint will "fill" micron depth scratches.....

But just to wash and wax and car will not have any discernible effect on swirls..

Filler glazes or polish laden with fillers are the best products if you dont want to machine polish the car and correct the paint...

 

[StevenH72]

What waxes have you used Stephen ?

Waxes arent a swirl filler..... That isnt there job...

Purely waxes. The car had Zymol Royale on it when I collected (is what Off Your Marks Detailing used just before my collection for ownership). I have subsequently used Chemical Guys Pete 53, Dodo Juice Purple Haze and Autolgym HD Wax.

In terms of sealants I've used Chemical Guys Blacklight, Jet Seal and Adam's Liquid Paint Sealant.

But as I said, it's not just my own experience but watching videos (which i take with a pinch of salt as the camera may not show all effects) and also seeing other people's cars.

Dont get me wrong.... Any product put onto paint will "fill" micron depth scratches.....

But just to wash and wax and car will not have any discernible effect on swirls..

Filler glazes or polish laden with fillers are the best products if you dont want to machine polish the car and correct the paint...

Wax will partly fill scratches, but yes won't successfully hide defects.

 

[Z4M-2006]

Matt at offyourmarks is a friend and has done a couple of my cars in the past... He is probably one of the best in the country at what he does and a great guy to go with it.

So...

Out of the what you have used subsequently have you seen no difference at all in any of the products when applied ?

Have you stripped the paint before each application or have you tried to top your existing paint ?

 

[pvr]

StevenH72, yes - my car was protected, but what I was trying to explain was that as wax protects the car, the paint will remain better than one that has not been waxed.

So I feel it is more about keeping the colour and finish what you have rather than improve it.

 

[srhutch]

Only srhutch can give you 50:50 as he is the only one that never finishes a job :lol:

You been in my garage again :lol:

Indeed I do have a 50:50 with regard to machine polishing anyway.

All it shows though is more fine swirls on the front half of my car. From a few feet back there is no difference. I will finish the polishing before next season though PVR.

I don't tend to use a polish though, just something like Finish Kare #2685 Carnauba Polymer Paste Wax or P21S and always had very good comments from forum members. I've tried PB Blackhole and find it adds nothing to the shine.

 

[StevenH72]

Matt at offyourmarks is a friend and has done a couple of my cars in the past... He is probably one of the best in the country at what he does and a great guy to go with it.

So...

Out of the what you have used subsequently have you seen no difference at all in any of the products when applied ?

Have you stripped the paint before each application or have you tried to top your existing paint ?

When using a new product I always strip before applying. Normally twice a year I will clay and cleanse the paint before waxing. In honesty, no, I've never noticed any difference. As I said, polishing yes and even with light hand polishing of SRP, you do notice benefits, but waxing I haven't. I used to convince myself that I did see benefits and the paintwork does look fantastic. But the last couple of times that I have used SRP, the paint has looked fantastic before waxing / sealing and hasn't looked any different afterwards.

StevenH72, yes - my car was protected, but what I was trying to explain was that as wax protects the car, the paint will remain better than one that has not been waxed.

So I feel it is more about keeping the colour and finish what you have rather than improve it.

That is an interesting point, protecting the paint is ultimately the best way to preserve a car's appearance, but is a long term gain, rather than a short term pop.