Water pump failure / replacement advice (3.0Si)

T

TameRacingDriver

Member
 Newcastle Upon Tyne
Hi all, my car has ticked over to 85,000 (I've owned since about 78k), and I can find no evidence that the water pump has been done. I've done a bit of googling and reading, as well as spoke to some friends, and I can't find any consensus as to whether I should do this as preventative measures or just wait till it goes and shut the car down and be recovered.

It's not a cheap job, as we know, so its natural to want to get the most out of it, and one of my mates says it could still gives me a few years; he also mentions the new pump could also die at any time. On the other hand, the engine doesn't take well to overheating, so it would be better to avoid the situation.

If I decided to risk it, does the car give any audible warning of trouble, i.e. a beep if it starts to overheat. I'd feel more comfortable about risking it (I guess) if I was warned in advance, but I remember one occasion in another (old) car where the temp was on max before I realised because I didn't constantly look at the gauges.

I don't mind spending the money but if I could get another couple of years out of it I wouldn't object either.
 
Best is to change both waterpump and thermostat at the same time.
This will be my next jobs after ccv replacement.
Good idea to renew oil filter housing gasket too if an e85 6 pot?
Indication is your temp guage creeping away from 90 degrees.
 
Mine failed and I had to get recovered which on a daily is a pain. I happened to notice in the morning when I got to work that the engine fan was on after I switched off. That set alarm bells ringing so I watched it on the way home and didn't get very far before it overheated. The red zone of the gauge lights up but I don't think it beeped.

I can't remember the mileage but it was less than 60,000.
 
TameRacingDriver said:
Hi all, my car has ticked over to 85,000 (I've owned since about 78k), and I can find no evidence that the water pump has been done. I've done a bit of googling and reading, as well as spoke to some friends, and I can't find any consensus as to whether I should do this as preventative measures or just wait till it goes and shut the car down and be recovered.

It's not a cheap job, as we know, so its natural to want to get the most out of it, and one of my mates says it could still gives me a few years; he also mentions the new pump could also die at any time. On the other hand, the engine doesn't take well to overheating, so it would be better to avoid the situation.

If I decided to risk it, does the car give any audible warning of trouble, i.e. a beep if it starts to overheat. I'd feel more comfortable about risking it (I guess) if I was warned in advance, but I remember one occasion in another (old) car where the temp was on max before I realised because I didn't constantly look at the gauges.

I don't mind spending the money but if I could get another couple of years out of it I wouldn't object either.
Click to expand...

I knew my pump was in trouble as it was starting to pulse the cooling fan from a cold start-I could hear it revving up/down :thumbsdown:
It was still working at this point but I changed it anyway, taking it as a warning. A code reader read "implausible pump speed" from memory-it didn't flag up any dash lights & had not overheated the engine.
Rob
 
Hi OP,

Mine failed on my first coupe at 9 years old and around 60K miles. I had just fuelled up and within a mile the temperature gauge shot round towards the red and the warning light in the gauge lit up. There was no other warning, but fortunately I have always kept a close eye on the gauges. As it was dark and on an unlit dual carriageway I had to drive a few miles to get off it and with the heater blasting, windows open and high gears with low revs the gauge stayed just below the red mark.

I had it fixed at a local independent BMW garage - OEM pump was £500 and thermostat another £100 (+ fitting) so a bit painful! :o
But no other ill-effects thankfully.

Based on those costs I personally wouldn't do it as preventative. There is no evidence of my current Coupe having had one even though it is now on 80K miles - I just keep a close eye on the temperature gauge and always carry the RAC card!

The problem with an electric pump is it just stops - mechanical ones tend to fail more gradually so you notice higher temperatures and/or drips before they become terminal. It's one of the downsides of a more advanced engine - the M54 in my E46 is much simpler and cheaper to fix, but they never got around to the Coupe until after the facelift so they all have the N52.

Mind you when it is behaving it is a fantastic engine!

Good luck whatever you decide. :thumbsup:
 
Mr Tidy said:
Hi OP,

Mine failed on my first coupe at 9 years old and around 60K miles. I had just fuelled up and within a mile the temperature gauge shot round towards the red and the warning light in the gauge lit up. There was no other warning, but fortunately I have always kept a close eye on the gauges. As it was dark and on an unlit dual carriageway I had to drive a few miles to get off it and with the heater blasting, windows open and high gears with low revs the gauge stayed just below the red mark.

I had it fixed at a local independent BMW garage - OEM pump was £500 and thermostat another £100 (+ fitting) so a bit painful! :o
But no other ill-effects thankfully.

Based on those costs I personally wouldn't do it as preventative. There is no evidence of my current Coupe having had one even though it is now on 80K miles - I just keep a close eye on the temperature gauge and always carry the RAC card!

The problem with an electric pump is it just stops - mechanical ones tend to fail more gradually so you notice higher temperatures and/or drips before they become terminal. It's one of the downsides of a more advanced engine - the M54 in my E46 is much simpler and cheaper to fix, but they never got around to the Coupe until after the facelift so they all have the N52.

Mind you when it is behaving it is a fantastic engine!

Good luck whatever you decide. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Hi, my pump didn't "just stop" if you're lucky you may get a warning like moi-its also possible to get the oem water pump for far less than £500, I paid £280 for mine :thumbsup:
Rob
 
Smartbear said:
Hi, my pump didn't "just stop" if you're lucky you may get a warning like moi-its also possible to get the oem water pump for far less than £500, I paid £280 for mine :thumbsup:
Rob
Click to expand...

If your pump didn't just stop perhaps luck was on your side (or perhaps tu es chanceux) - when mine went I tried the bleed procedure the next day and I'm sure I could hear the pump working, but I didn't want to risk a cooked engine!

ECP quoted £340 and some pence for a new pump, but I wasn't sure it was OEM and my potential workshop is an allegedly allocated parking space (wish the neighbours knew what "allocated" meant) so I booked it in somewhere I trusted! Plus the car had FSH up to then so I wanted to maintain good service records (which paid off when I sold it to be fair).

Hopefully I will have a decent garage next time I move!
 
Smartbear said:
Hi, my pump didn't "just stop" if you're lucky you may get a warning like moi-its also possible to get the oem water pump for far less than £500, I paid £280 for mine :thumbsup:
Rob
Click to expand...

May I ask where from?
 
You can get an OEM pump and 'stat from BM Parts Store for less than £300 delivered.

Email or call Sam: 01902 858 927 // [email protected]

From memory the parts and fitting at my local indy came to less than £450.
 
I had a quote to get the water pump done at a BMW specialist today on top of the other work I want done (full engine service and autobox service) and he wants about £380 to supply and fit, this seems OK to me....

That said, all three specialists I spoke to today suggested that they would just let it fail, as it is an expensive pre-emptive fix, which is what a couple of you also suggest, that said, I don't mind spending the money if need be. They pretty much suggested I just keep an eye on the gauge, one of them said the gauge will read into the danger level well before the engine itself melts? Another suggested the car might go into limp mode. They all seemed to agree they wouldn't bother doing it as preventative unless I have no breakdown cover (which I don't, but thats easily rectified). Thoughts?
 
I`ve always had RAC cover, but usually the cheapest. But this year i upgraded to the onward travel just in case this only costs £8 after some negotiating

if it was a part that you knew would fail within say a 5k variance then yes preventative would be ok. But these vary from 50k-120k

It doesnt seem to be on age of car either, so I couldn't justify it
 
Thanks for your thought biojo. I was talking to a mate tonight and he is very much of the opinion I should just get it done for peace of mind, but there are too many others saying otherwise to ignore their point of view.

I can see that it's a lot of money for something that *may not* fail perhaps for years yet; I can also see the point of view that if I'm keeping the car, just get it done as I will have to fork out anyway. The biggest barrier to this simply seems to be the random nature of the failures as you said.

Also 2 out of the 3 indys I spoke to today claimed it was unlikely you would end up with engine damage as long as you didn't keep trying to drive it, one claiming the car would eventually go into limp mode to stop you driving it, so the main risk is simply inconvenience; the other mentioned the temp gauge would go into the red a long time before the engine was actually at risk. If that is true then it at least partly puts my mind at rest.
 
I took a Z4C for a test drive. It did overheat (don't know why, i just gave it back to the dealer and walked away). It started binging and beeping at me when the gauge went red.
 
i know the specialist when i was in last had some women's car in, her pump failed, but she kept driving up the motorway despite all the warning lights

engine eventually seized up!

if it fails and you stop then there shouldn't be any issue.

ok you're potentially going to have inconvenience of then getting it fixed if it randomly breaks. Where as as preventative you could plan when your least likely to need car.

recently my abs pump broke, I was without car nearly 2 weeks. another fairly common fault on bmws, oh then theirs the electric power steering... Where do you draw the line
 
any way of telling if a car has already had this done? I got a fully stamped service book with my car when i bought it but no history of reciepts for work done and I guess I'm sailing close to the limit at 85k if not already been done
 
TameRacingDriver said:
Thanks for your thought biojo. I was talking to a mate tonight and he is very much of the opinion I should just get it done for peace of mind, but there are too many others saying otherwise to ignore their point of view.

I can see that it's a lot of money for something that *may not* fail perhaps for years yet; I can also see the point of view that if I'm keeping the car, just get it done as I will have to fork out anyway. The biggest barrier to this simply seems to be the random nature of the failures as you said.

Also 2 out of the 3 indys I spoke to today claimed it was unlikely you would end up with engine damage as long as you didn't keep trying to drive it, one claiming the car would eventually go into limp mode to stop you driving it, so the main risk is simply inconvenience; the other mentioned the temp gauge would go into the red a long time before the engine was actually at risk. If that is true then it at least partly puts my mind at rest.
Click to expand...

OK, to put your mind at rest mine did go into limp mode even though I was driving like a nun! (Sorry, I forgot that bit - but it did happen nearly a year ago and I'm getting on now)! :lol:

Those quotes you got look very competitive! Whether to do it as preventative, well only you know. It depends on your personal circumstances. Do you have another car or a bike? Do you need the car for work? Is it the only way to get to work?

Personally I hope your pump just keeps pumping! :thumbsup:
 
So what happens if the pump goes during a spirited drive and although you stop driving fast and pull over, the engine can't dissipate that additional heat? You're looking at a couple of grand to do the headgasket.

I took mine in to get the faults read purely by chance (wanted to check the vanos operation), and the pump already had clocked up 17 underspeed vs requested speed faults - on about 70k miles. Personally I'd rather avoid a) being inconvenienced by the side of the road, potentially in a dangerous position, and b) running any risk of damage to an engine where so many one-use bolts need to be replaced when it comes apart for a headgasket - at a not insignificant cost! Maintenance bills like that are to some extent part and parcel of owning a sports car - they cost more to fix and need a bit of love every so often. Why skimp on something that could potentially cost you so much worse?
 
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