Tyres (again)

[Angus McCoatup]

My rears are now nearly done for, so I've been looking for new tyres.

I want to try something different from the OEMs, so will replace the fronts as well because I prefer to have the same make / model on all wheels. It's turning into a frustrating hunt because it seems very few tyres are available in OEM sizes for both the front and the rear.

Reading recent reviews, it sounds like the new Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 is a good tyre for usefully less money than Michelins or Pirellis. They make an OEM size for the rear (255/40/18), but don't currently do a 225/45/18 for the front.

So it seems there are 4 options:

1. Fit OEM rear and 235/40/18 front. The diameter is 15mm smaller than the OEM front, and 16 mm smaller than the OEM rear.

2. Fit OEM rear and 235/45/18 front. The diameter is 9mm bigger than the OEM front and 8 mm bigger than the OEM rear.

3. Fit 265/35/18 rear and 235/40/18 front. The diameter of the rears is 18mm smaller than OEM. But, crucially, the fronts and rears are within 2mm of each other.

I was wondering if those in the know about these things have any experience / thoughts on which of options 1 to 3 would be the best. I was especially wondering whether a difference in diameters between front and rear would cause problems with the ABS and/or DSC.

Alternatively I could just go with option 4, which is give up on the Goodyears and go for the Continental Sport Contact 3 instead. These are similarly priced and available in OEM sizes. Also, it seems to get good reviews and is an improvement on the OEM CSC M3. But I'm pretty keen on the Goodyears because the reviews sound really good.

 

[Andy]

Someone will be along to answer the size question I'm sure, just a thought but if you've been on Conti's all this time have you looked at anything but the goodyears?

Look at any post about tyres & you'll find me and a few others raving about the Vredestein's, excellent money & I don't think many tyres are better in the wet.

Put used Falkens on mine this week after a wheel swap and & with these recent showers I'm missing the Vred's big time already

 

[Angus McCoatup]

Thanks for the information about the Vredesteins Andy.

From a quick search of tyre websites it looks like they do them in all sizes, and the price is pretty decent too.

Did you find they were an improvement over the CSC M3s?

 

[Andy]

The price & very sexy tyre pattern made me try them, similar grip to the CSC's in the dry but infinitely grippier & more predictable in the wet.

They're a relatively old tyre now (I've been through about 16 I guess) so you will find better I would think but you'll pay for it.

For me I love knowing the back end doesn't cost a massive amount to replace every time I spin them up & there's always plenty of grip at sensible speeds in the dry on the road anyway. But for confidence on things like aquaplaning i think they rock.

A member on here did suggest the other day that fuel consumption on the Vred's was poorer than his falkens I'm now using, but the vred's are definitely stickier so I guess that makes sense. Had a few surprises with the recent rain on the falkens already, never swapped a tyre before the end of it's life before but I'm temped.

If you've got the money the PS3's are well respected too.

 

[mmm-five]

From my limited testing, I'd say go for the Michelin Super Sports. Just had their first weekend in the wet, and I was amazed at their level of grip.

Unfortunately they're not available in stock rear sizes, but are available in 265/40r18, which is only 1.2% larger than standard - and they're considerably more expensive that most other options (i.e. £220 for fronts and £250 for rears), but Costco usually give you 20-25% off if you order 4 (but check before you order, as the offer is sporadic).

 

[pilchardthecat]

The contisport contact 3s are a very impressive tyre. Much, much better than the CSCm3 that is the oem tyre, and better than vreds too, especially in the wet.

They were top in the last Evo tyre test

 

[Andy]

Do you mean this ? Hadn't read it but will now.

Initially it says " the Vredstein Ultrac Cento is out performed by the Ultrac Sessanta (which was tested in the 2007 test)" which is the tyre I'm talking about, never heard of the Cento.

I'd try the CSC3 but I bet it's 30%+ more expensive than the Sessantas...

EDIT: Didn't realise the CSC3 was in the original 2007 Evo test but it beats the CSC3 there.

The results:
1 ) Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
2 ) Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta
3 ) Continental Contisport Contact 3
4 ) Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A
5 ) Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
6 ) Pirelli PZero Nero
7 ) Kumho Ecsta STP KU31
8 ) Dunlop Sport Maxx
9 ) Yokohama S.Drive

 

[ChawenHalo]

From my limited testing, I'd say go for the Michelin Super Sports. Just had their first weekend in the wet, and I was amazed at their level of grip.

Unfortunately they're not available in stock rear sizes, but are available in 265/40r18, which is only 1.2% larger than standard - and they're considerably more expensive that most other options (i.e. £220 for fronts and £250 for rears), but Costco usually give you 20-25% off if you order 4 (but check before you order, as the offer is sporadic).

I have the Pilot Sports on mine and they are very very good (in all conditions) compared to OEM. Next pair will be the new Michelin SS. Depends on what you do with your car, track days or not...

What difference do these small changfes in size do anyone know please?

 

[mmm-five]

What difference do these small changes in size do anyone know please?

The 1.2% change will only make as much difference as running an brand new tyre (8mm) to a half-worn tyre (4mm).

For example

• a 255/40r18 tyre has a diameter of 18" + (255*40%), or 661mm
• a 265/40r18 tyre has a diameter of 18" + (265*40%), or 669mm, 1.2%/8mm larger than OE
• a 265/35r18 tyre has a diameter of 18" + (265*35%), or 643mm, 2.8%/18mm smaller than OE

There's a handy tool hereif you want to check different options - not forgetting that you don't want to go narrower than 245 or wider than 265 (unless you're running 225 winter tyres).

 

[ChawenHalo]

What difference do these small changes in size do anyone know please?

The 1.2% change will only make as much difference as running an brand new tyre (8mm) to a half-worn tyre (4mm).

For example

• a 255/40r18 tyre has a diameter of 18" + (255*40%), or 661mm
• a 265/40r18 tyre has a diameter of 18" + (265*40%), or 669mm, 1.2%/8mm larger than OE
• a 265/35r18 tyre has a diameter of 18" + (265*35%), or 643mm, 2.8%/18mm smaller than OE

There's a handy tool hereif you want to check different options - not forgetting that you don't want to go narrower than 245 or wider than 265 (unless you're running 225 winter tyres).

Handy indeed, thanks for that. Will wait to get new wheels before changing tyres I think...

 

[Angus McCoatup]

Many thanks for the replies everyone . It seems the range of options is bigger that I thought - crikey it's hard to know what to do for the best.

mmm-five - the Michelin super sports do sound good. Am I right in thinking you've gone for the OEM size on the front? If so, how do you find the balance given that the front/rear size differential will have increased in favour of the rear on a car that supposedly has a tendency to understeer?

 

[SweetRide]

The price & very sexy tyre pattern made me try them, similar grip to the CSC's in the dry but infinitely grippier & more predictable in the wet.

They're a relatively old tyre now (I've been through about 16 I guess) so you will find better I would think but you'll pay for it.

For me I love knowing the back end doesn't cost a massive amount to replace every time I spin them up & there's always plenty of grip at sensible speeds in the dry on the road anyway. But for confidence on things like aquaplaning i think they rock.

A member on here did suggest the other day that fuel consumption on the Vred's was poorer than his falkens I'm now using, but the vred's are definitely stickier so I guess that makes sense. Had a few surprises with the recent rain on the falkens already, never swapped a tyre before the end of it's life before but I'm temped.

If you've got the money the PS3's are well respected too.

I'll second that. The Vreds (Ultrac Sessanta's that is) are tops in my book. As said, dry weather performance is on par with other premium brands, however where they differentiate themselves is in the rain. Also, a very quiet and well-wearing tire.

 

[mmm-five]

mmm-five - the Michelin super sports do sound good. Am I right in thinking you've gone for the OEM size on the front? If so, how do you find the balance given that the front/rear size differential will have increased in favour of the rear on a car that supposedly has a tendency to understeer?

Never really noticed much understeer on mine in the 40,000 miles I've driven so far*, but that could be just the way I drive it (i.e. I go slow in and power through corners, rather than try to brake/turn at the last minute) oke:

HOWEVER <--big however, I've only put the PSS on the front at the moment as my OE Conti's on the rear still have 6mm or so on them. However, I'll be going for the 265/40r18 size if the 255/40r18 isn't available when I come to need them.


* except for a scary moment at 30mph on the 'Ring with nearly bald CS M3s and a wet track last month - hence the new fronts.

 

[Angus McCoatup]

Thanks mmm-five - it's interesting to know you are on a mix of OE rears and Michelin fronts.

Some say (god, that sounds a bit like Clarkson) that having different makes/models between the front and rear on a Z4M knackers (for want of a more technical word) the handling. Have you noticed any difference good or bad?

My fronts still have a lot of life left in them. So despite my opening statement of preferring to have the same tyre all round, I might just go with OE size Goodyear Assy 2s on the rear and wait for OE size fronts to become available next year. If they don't, then a 235/45/18 on the front sounds like it's a close enough match.

 

[mmm-five]

I can't say I've noticed the rear end becoming 'worse' with the better front tyres, and it'll only show itself when you're at the limit, but I think I'd really need to be on a test track to quantify the difference further and it may be no different in balance than than between the staggered OE setup (different size & load rating).

I have done a test before now, where I've put 225s on the rear and 245s on the front (on the E34 M5), and the amount and ease of oversteer was hilarious.