Track alignment specs?

[sjh00u82]

What is the general consensus on what track alignment specs should be for the Z4M Coupe? My car is going in tomorrow to have my intrax coilovers setup.

I will look for about 3 degrees negative camber on the front, as that is what I ran on my old M3 and that seemed to keep tyre wear sensible.
A quick look on the internet seemed to show a lot more discussion on Toe in/out and rear camber. I don’t want anything too feisty; I am no drift king.

What is the consensus?

Thanks

 

[Mr Tidy]

I didn't look at the figures but I had my MC aligned to E46 M3 CSL settings a few years ago and how it drove was totally transformed.

 

[sjh00u82]

I didn't look at the figures but I had my MC aligned to E46 M3 CSL settings a few years ago and how it drove was totally transformed.

Thanks. From what I have seen, the main difference between the Z4M and CSL specs in the amount of toe. I've read of a few people making the change and saying it works on the road well, making the car more rear led. I have also read that the lack of toe makes it too keen to rotate on the track, but I will happily admit I know nothing about this, so if anyone can confirm that it won't bite me on track with the CSL specs, I will happily go the same way.

 

[plenty]

It won't bite you on track.

 

[grannyknot]

Have a look at these,

 

[AndyBeech]

This is what I had mine aligned to by Center Gravity a few years back as a hybrid road / track set up. Nice and fairly neutral and had no snappy moments.
Will lean towards understeer still for a ‘safer’ experience let’s say!
Only change I would make is a touch more front camber for tyre wear purposes. If you can go up to 3 degrees front camber and be happy with its road manners still then deffo go for that.

 

[plenty]

20 minutes rear toe is still quite conservative. IME on a Roadster you can go down to 4-6 minutes total rear toe (2-3 minutes per side) to help the car rotate. The rear still feels planted, no doubt thanks to the generous rear camber. Better tyre wear too.

Having said that, the MC has a faster rack than the MR and if "safe" characteristics are top priority then dialling in more rear toe, e.g. 20 minutes, is a good shout.

 

[AndyBeech]

Yeah I did ask them for a conservative / 'safe' setup to be fair as I'd only done 1 track day at that point and wanted to build up confidence with a known quantity! Worked well for me as 15 odd days in now still in one piece as is the car. Tyre wear not too bad either though it demands smoothness, sliding around can destroy the inside rears fairly quick.
Certainly not the fastest way round a track (Ask TomK or Fishy Dave for that kind of setup!), I'll likely adjust it for next time, dial it down a bit now I've got a bit more experience.

Finding someone to do the setup properly round here is a problem in itself though, everyone so far has made a right pigs ear of it, even with Hunter machines :headbang: Worth getting someone / travelling if necessary to get someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[Ed Doe]

I've got Intrax on mine, I'm just post-house move so all my car paperwork is boxed up somewhere, but I'll try and dig out the specs I had it set to - I've done Donny and the Ring this year and it was pretty ace!

 

[Mr Tidy]

Finding someone to do the setup properly round here is a problem in itself though, everyone so far has made a right pigs ear of it, even with Hunter machines Worth getting someone / travelling if necessary to get someone who knows what they're doing.

I got mine done at TWG Automotive in Camberley which I think is where Ed goes too.

Will who runs it is ex-Sytner and does circuit racing which is probably why he invested in the laser kit! The only down side is you normally get a booking date 4 weeks or so away, although as I had mine done in December that didn't really matter.

 

[TomK]

My 2 cents on a very subjective topic;
As said, as much camber on the front as you can get, if you're on a stock strut/B6 etc then it's easy to shim them to get near -3ve. Cost £1 or get adjustable solid top mounts is another option >£300
I've found rear toe to be a big input of how the car handles, if you are comfortable with some oversteer then going neutral rear at a minimum really helps turn in. With that toe I've found going over -2ve rear camber isn't good leading to snap oversteer some times. I've set it at about -1.7 or something.
Personally I'd get it done at a shop that uses strings, they'll at least then have some idea what they are doing. Kwik fit use Hunter kit, doesn't mean I would ever take my car there thanks.

 

[PDJ]

https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk

Have a read everything you need to know is on there

 

[TomK]

https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk

Have a read everything you need to know is on there

I can't find the bit that says 0.2deg more -ve camber with a toe out of 1mm on this chassis makes the car difficult to drive? Where is that?
Do you work for them or something?

 

[Ed Doe]

:lol:

 

[PDJ]

Do you work for them or something?

No

There is loads of info on there that explains what it is and how it affects handling

Once you get into individual cars and drivers it is a personal preference.

I followed a thread on a motorsport page that had a picture of Malcom Wilson in a MK2 understeering into a corner all the others where wild oversteer, the thread raged on about the 2 different styles of set up and driving, the winner would have been judged by the timekeeper on the day.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

My 2 cents on a very subjective topic;
As said, as much camber on the front as you can get, if you're on a stock strut/B6 etc then it's easy to shim them to get near -3ve. Cost £1 or get adjustable solid top mounts is another option >£300
I've found rear toe to be a big input of how the car handles, if you are comfortable with some oversteer then going neutral rear at a minimum really helps turn in. With that toe I've found going over -2ve rear camber isn't good leading to snap oversteer some times. I've set it at about -1.7 or something.
Personally I'd get it done at a shop that uses strings, they'll at least then have some idea what they are doing. Kwik fit use Hunter kit, doesn't mean I would ever take my car there thanks.

Whilst I much prefer oversteer to understeer, at present, mine feels like it wants to roll beyond oversteer into a spin when I accelerate out of tighter bends. This has been a slow evolution of change in handling characteristics at the limit. I’ve not checked the geo or made any adjustments for a very long time, so I suspect that explains the change in behaviour.
I had mine corner weighted and the geo set up in the UK some years ago and I’ve always been happy with the handling until this year. Unfortunately, my documentation of the set up is somewhere in the UK.
Tom, I’d be very interested to see the geometry figures that you run on track before I have mine adjusted.

 

[Ed Doe]

Is also be interested Tom! :lol: that last video of yours at Snett looked extremely sorted

 

[Argenta]

Yeah I've had -2 deg rear (which is minimum with KW V3 until you get adjustable camber arms) which prob. helped me snap & crash, I'd use max -1.5deg.

 

[Mikey_Boy]

I used suspension secrets to set up my Z4M with Intrax coilovers. They are good, but (controversial) I don’t think they’re the best - PM me for more details 8)

I have 2.8 degrees negative with 8 degrees castor, which I think is a bit too much, despite the dynamic camber this gives you on turn in. Touch of toe in - not much.

Rear is about 1.5 degrees negative, but I don’t have camber arms so it is what it is. Again, a touch of toe in at the rear.

Tom K’s advice is spot on - I like to minimise rear toe to help with turn in - with the right camber setting, it helps balance enormously. Have a hunt on here for Exdos thread on Z4M suspension set up - that taught me heaps and gave me direction on what I needed.

Works well on road and track I find, but as said above, it’s very subjective. What I do find is that the Intrax dampers need a lot of fiddling with to get the front to rear balance right on track, but once you get it right, it’s fantastic!

 

[Beedub]

mine will be sent over to spires technologies in the new year, it needs a total re-setup as ive started to get back on track again after a few years hiatus from the BIG C. i will make sure i post up the settings . The dampers were set to KWs nurburg track settings which i feels works as a nice balance for the road.