Thread locker on wheel bolts
- Thread starter Jembo
- Start date
axelleveau
Member
Funny how I actually go opposite and use anti-seize / copper grease on wheel bolts, as well as most screws I've dealt with doing suspension work recently 
I am sick and tired of rust and seized stuff :thumbsdown:
I am sick and tired of rust and seized stuff :thumbsdown:smorris_12
Active member
No, no, a thousand times no. Wheel nuts should have nothing on them: No copper grease and certainly not threadlock. The thread doesn't want to be bone dry as tightening torques mostly expect the thinnest film of oil from manufacturing and storage but slathering them in anything is Not A Good Idea. Properly tightened it won't come undone in the wrong place and will happily come undone at the correct one.
Sliding sideways into suspension components, I can't remember the last nuts/bolt that gave me grief coming undone (and I used to maintain a Discovery) but there are a few things I've learnt along the way:
* Clean the thread first. Get a wire brush and use it. Trying to wind a nut onto dirt will get progressively harder until the threads are completely inpacted with grot and it won't move either way.
* Penetrating oil. Get some of that in there. It's questionable how far it will penetrate, but it doesn't half allow threads to slide over each other more easily
* Good quality, well fitting sockets properly seated. If a nut is looking fragile, a six point socket will avoid ripping the corners off. I got an impact set for that reason long before I got a gun! Similarly, Allen and Torx fittings should have their little holes cleaned out so the bit has full contact.
* Leverage. Longer breaker bars make a hell of a difference. 24" minimum. I picked up a 1m 3/4" drive one on a bit of a whim and, when faced with a hub nut tightened to all of the Nm in the world, it just laughed and span it off. Up to that point I'd always shied away from anything with a torque spec above a wheel bolt!
* Heat. In my mind it's as much use as swearing at a stuck nut but it really works. My MAPP gas plumbing blow torch allowed me to shift an infamously hard to move tie rod end the other day with a spanner and a good heave.
Finally, do things up to an appropriate torque and it'll come apart nicely next time. For some reason mechanics treat all fixings as a test of their manliness and go beserk. Like the bad old days of tyre places that would go mad with their ugga-dugga gun until no force on earth would be able to undo it again.
Sliding sideways into suspension components, I can't remember the last nuts/bolt that gave me grief coming undone (and I used to maintain a Discovery) but there are a few things I've learnt along the way:
* Clean the thread first. Get a wire brush and use it. Trying to wind a nut onto dirt will get progressively harder until the threads are completely inpacted with grot and it won't move either way.
* Penetrating oil. Get some of that in there. It's questionable how far it will penetrate, but it doesn't half allow threads to slide over each other more easily
* Good quality, well fitting sockets properly seated. If a nut is looking fragile, a six point socket will avoid ripping the corners off. I got an impact set for that reason long before I got a gun! Similarly, Allen and Torx fittings should have their little holes cleaned out so the bit has full contact.
* Leverage. Longer breaker bars make a hell of a difference. 24" minimum. I picked up a 1m 3/4" drive one on a bit of a whim and, when faced with a hub nut tightened to all of the Nm in the world, it just laughed and span it off. Up to that point I'd always shied away from anything with a torque spec above a wheel bolt!
* Heat. In my mind it's as much use as swearing at a stuck nut but it really works. My MAPP gas plumbing blow torch allowed me to shift an infamously hard to move tie rod end the other day with a spanner and a good heave.
Finally, do things up to an appropriate torque and it'll come apart nicely next time. For some reason mechanics treat all fixings as a test of their manliness and go beserk. Like the bad old days of tyre places that would go mad with their ugga-dugga gun until no force on earth would be able to undo it again.
I put that it is totally wrong to use TL for wheel bolts... because it is.
Thread locker is designed to be used for situations where a bolt is not intended to be undone regularly (ie not for standard service intervals) and where the torque (plus angle) and application of load (driving events) generate a large amount of clamp load loss. There are bolts that use thread locker from factory, however these are almost always in locations that aren't intended to be changed in 60,000 miles or more.
Thread locker is designed to be used for situations where a bolt is not intended to be undone regularly (ie not for standard service intervals) and where the torque (plus angle) and application of load (driving events) generate a large amount of clamp load loss. There are bolts that use thread locker from factory, however these are almost always in locations that aren't intended to be changed in 60,000 miles or more.
Pondrew
Lifer
Putting thread lock on wheel bolts is pointless and asking for trouble, as said above.
The whole point of tightening any threaded bolt or nut to a torque is to 'stretch' the thread, which will lock them better than any additional 'glue' can ever hope to. A purely mechanical 'lock' is always better.
Don't quite understand why anybody would think that a tightened wheel bolt, or nut, would ever come loose of it's own accord. It pretty much can't.
The whole point of tightening any threaded bolt or nut to a torque is to 'stretch' the thread, which will lock them better than any additional 'glue' can ever hope to. A purely mechanical 'lock' is always better.
Don't quite understand why anybody would think that a tightened wheel bolt, or nut, would ever come loose of it's own accord. It pretty much can't.
TL would probably be a bad idea as well as being totally pointless on wheel bolts.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong however with a dab of copper grease/anti-sieze, then tightened to the correct torque spec or even just by feel if you're confident/familiar enough.
After having experienced a couple of seized wheel bolts, requiring the use of the most ridiculously long breaker bar and the bottom-clenching fear that I was going to shear a wheel stud while trying to loosen them I will always use a dab of copper grease on wheel bolts as well as spark plugs.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong however with a dab of copper grease/anti-sieze, then tightened to the correct torque spec or even just by feel if you're confident/familiar enough.
After having experienced a couple of seized wheel bolts, requiring the use of the most ridiculously long breaker bar and the bottom-clenching fear that I was going to shear a wheel stud while trying to loosen them I will always use a dab of copper grease on wheel bolts as well as spark plugs.
Ah jesus mon, like what??Pondrew said:
Greasy wheel bolts run in my family, from my granddad and probably his dad and granddad before him and there are no family anecdotes of anyone losing a wheel at speed or even getting a wobble on!
Before that I think wheels were made of wood by wheel-coopers! :lol:
The only maybe... and it's a BIG 'maybe' to using copper slip is the increased frequency that you should probably check you don't have one coming loose. Big deal. :roll:
enuff_zed
Lifer
Chris_D said:
You could put a small amount of copperslip or similar on the wheel bolts, nothing excessive. But you have to remember that this will reduce friction and therefore when you torque the bolts up they will turn further before your torque wrench clicks. This means there is more 'stretch' being applied to the bolts which could potentially compromise their strength.
However, as previously stated, the chance of anyone's home use torque wrench being anywhere within 20% accuracy are minimal unless they go along to their local tyre place on the day when the man turns up to calibrate their wrenches.
PerryGunn
Lifer
I know that in a commercial setting the recommendation is that TWs are recalibrated every few thousand cycles (or annually) but for home use people should find that a decent one (not a £5 chinesium e-bay special) will stay fairly close to factory calibration for much longer providing they completely loosen off the spring tensioner after every use - few people do this which is why they find that they've drifted a long way from calibration.enuff_zed said:
Oh, and the on-topic bit - no threadlocker or copper grease on wheel bolts (ever!)