Thieving B’stard Car Park Operators

[Big Bad Boris]

A subject dear to all our hearts I’m sure, I’ll try to keep this brief though.

So a few weeks ago I dropped my daughter in town, Around midday I went into a pub car park, turned around, dropped her off and went home. I then entered the same pub car park again to turn around (the road is a dead end) around 4.00pm on way way to pick her up a couple of hundred yards away.

A short time after that I get a Parking Charge Notice showing my entering the car park around midday with the exit time around 4.00. Naturally I appeal the charge, all they have to do is check the cameras properly and they will see 2 entries and 2 exits a minute for two apart on each occasion and all will be well..which I did.

I have just heard back from the parking company, I have the usual template letter saying they have considered my appeal, in short the fine stands, no reference to the specifics of my case or recognition they have even looked at the APR footage. Also ”this ends their appeals process”.

I am happy to fight them to the death as clearly I’ve done nothing wrong.…Next step appears to be to appeal to “POPLA”. However, my question is how do I prove my case i.e. the car was at home during the perceived “offence”. The real evidence should be the from the APR cameras operated by the parking co. As explained above they seem to be basically falsifying evidence by utilising the entrance shot of my first drive through alongside the exit shot of my second visit.

I’ve read lots of how to’s and what to dos around fighting car parking charges, but nothing that runs along the lines of my seemingly unusual case. Anyone had a similar problem or issue?

 

[Argyll Andy]

Morning, you got anything like fuels receipts for the period in between or your local friendly Indy who would do a quick note to say your vehicle was in with them for an hour between 2-3.

I know, slightly immoral but I hate these thieving fuckers too and if they’re going to play dirty to impose the fine I’d be very inclined to do so for my defence too :wink:

 

[Ed Doe]

Is it a private company? I thought the generally accepted rule was just ignore and put their letters in the bin! Good luck with the process either way - sounds like you're well in the right - good luck sorting your claim out!

 

[enuff_zed]

Whatever else, definitely save every bit of correspondence. Pretty sure if it was pursued they would have to provide the correct evidence.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Have you carefully read their 'thieving' rules. It may be that your 'clock' restarted to your first entry, when you went back in later in the day and finished on your final exit. A 'kind of' no return within a set number of hours or you get the full whack!

 

[obewan]

Is it a private company? I thought the generally accepted rule was just ignore and put their letters in the bin! Good luck with the process either way - sounds like you're well in the right - good luck sorting your claim out!

That used to be the way to deal with these things, but I'm pretty sure the law changed and now the advice is not to ignore it.

Appeals process here:
https://www.popla.co.uk/

Some decent advice here:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/parking-ticket-appeals/#howto

Good luck

Edit: apologies, re-read OP and I see you are aware of POPLA
We had a similar case locally a few months ago when a driver used a supermarket car park (with multiple exits) as a short cut twice in one day.
He appealed and the fine was rescinded - coverage in the local paper may have helped :wink:

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I have checked their rules, I don’t see anything about re-visiting in a given space of time, the key issue seems to be they give twice the recommended 5 minutes leeway before you are deemed to have entered a parking contract with them, so a 10 minute grace period, which of course I would have been well within both times, having literally gone in, turned around.. and out again.

The problem I have is they hold the evidence that proves my innocence, I have no idea if they even bothered to check to see if my appeal (to them) was valid i.e. checked the cameras to confirm that I did indeed enter the car park very briefly on two separate occasions as their response to me is clearly generic.

Andy, I did check my account but it doesn’t look like I bought petrol or anything that day, I may need to check with my Indy to see when the car last went into him, it may have been around that time :roll:

Obewan - If the circumstances were similar any idea how the supermarket man proved his innocence ?

 

[obewan]

Obewan - If the circumstances were similar any idea how the supermarket man proved his innocence ?

Apologies, my memory has let me down, I got the facts wrong.
I've found the article in the local paper (it was back in Feb 2020). Tesco told the guy it was nothing to do with them (there are other shops on the site) and he should appeal to the Parking Management company Horizon Parking. If that failed, they suggested POPLA, as Horizon are a member of the BPA
It sounded like Horizon had provided him with photo evidence of his 'offence'
He stated the photo's were 8 hours hours apart. His argument was both times he was driving - not parked
Unfortunately the comments section of this article are now turned off, so I can't see how it ended

 

[Nanu]

I have fought such parking companies twice now and won both without having to go to court (Parking Eye)

Without going into lengthy detail on here which is where I got my original assistance from, go to a site called Peppipoo. Don't be put off by the name. Create an account and all the motoring information you need will be on there. You can even post your circumstances as you did here and you will get all the advice and letter templates you need and letter templates for appeals to POPLA as suggested above.

Good luck and any problems just PM me and I will help further if needed

 

[Zulu4]

In this age of data protection such that I can't even do anything on behalf of my wife without her being present, how is it that the DVLA can freely give out all of our private details to the latest pikey parking company that decides to set up overnight?

It seems it's one rule for us and another very different rule for government quangos when they want to make a bit of cash from us.

 

[PointedMarlin]

Just a suggestion here, but is it worth driving the route again, walking if possible to see if there are any houses with a Ring or local businesses with CCTV?

That’ll show you driving past when you were supposedly in the car park

Or even ask the pub they might have external cameras

 

[Big Bad Boris]

0

I have fought such parking companies twice now and won both without having to go to court (Parking Eye)

Without going into lengthy detail on here which is where I got my original assistance from, go to a site called Peppipoo. Don't be put off by the name. Create an account and all the motoring information you need will be on there. You can even post your circumstances as you did here and you will get all the advice and letter templates you need and letter templates for appeals to POPLA as suggested above.

Good luck and any problems just PM me and I will help further if needed

Thanks Nanu, I will take a look at that site tomorrow, sounds like good advice

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Just a suggestion here, but is it worth driving the route again, walking if possible to see if there are any houses with a Ring or local businesses with CCTV?

That’ll show you driving past when you were supposedly in the car park

Or even ask the pub they might have external cameras

I did think of that as there are a couple of shops opposite, but it was on 30th July, so I doubt there would be anything going that far back. It took a week for them to send out the notice and 3 weeks to ignore my appeal so a fair bit of time has passed.

 

[ihadablackdog]

We have experience of these private parking companies.

You can ignore the letters about paying the debt….you will get loads from solicitors, debt collection agencies etc threatening you with court action, bailiffs, poor credit rating….but read it carefully and they all say something like “we will recommend to our client to take legal proceedings” so all they are doing is trying to get the money, those letters don’t actually mean court action. I think the parking company sub this work out and I guess the collection companies get a commission.
You might even get some from the company who do the tv show “can’t pay, take it away”.

You can ignore all these letters. The only one you can’t ignore is titled something like “notice of court action” (can’t remember exact title). That means they are actually taking it to court, but here’s the good bit: you go to court and might win. It’s only if you lose and the court order you to pay that you must pay, at that stage if you fail to pay I think they can send bailiffs etc.

Trouble is, they have 6 years to do this!

And I thought the grace period was 10minutes by law, it’s definitely been reviewed recently.

My other thought though is if you were longer than the 5minutes you say they impose…that’s not just driving in and out again, although I agree the fine is unfair. Not actually a fine, it’s an invoice.

There is also a legal proceeding being organised against the dvla for selling keeper details.

My advice is to try and stay calm over it cos you can get stressed to hell and there is nothing you can do. We found we couldn’t even speak to the company, only the payment line etc. Some people decide to pay to stop the stress, it depends how you feel about that.

Those websites will have lots of experience on them.

 

[Angelus666]

I'd send them an email saying you are absolutely willing to go to court on this matter and should/when you win they will be fully liable for all your solicitor's costs, which equate to £500 per billing hour. They'll quickly drop their claim.

They are scum who prey on people who won't fight back.

 

[buzyg]

Do you have a tracker on your phone. That will show where you where, if not the car. I'm assuming you don't have one on your Zed.

 

[Big Bad Boris]

I'd send them an email saying you are absolutely willing to go to court on this matter and should/when you win they will be fully liable for all your solicitor's costs, which equate to £500 per billing hour. They'll quickly drop their claim.

They are scum who prey on people who won't fight back.

Thanks Angelus666, I am tempted to go that route. As I mentioned I dropped my daughter to meet her friend, so they both are witnesses to me leaving the car park within a minute or two (and returning 4 hours later), also my wife was at home so she is a witness to the fact that both the car and I were at home that afternoon, I think I spoke to a couple of neighbours whilst pottering in the front garden who would probably testify the car was here too.

I think I will Email them as you suggest. Simply advising them I will fight them in court as the matter is clear from my perspective, I entered the car park at 12.32 and left a minute or two later and did not return until 16.11… leaving within 60 seconds on that occasion and I have witnesses that saw me arrive/depart at those times and also that saw me and the vehicle in an alternative location during the intervening period.

If they care to check their records PROPERLY they will quickly establish these are the facts. I will mention them paying my legal costs as and when I win the case as you suggest.

Any one see a downside of this direct approach as an alternative to the hassle of appealing via POPLA.

 

[Nanu]

Don’t engage any further with the parking company, deal with POPLA which takes it all out of their hands and also freezes any time limits re payments and demands.

The debt is a charge not a fine and can only be issued by a person or body who has a proprietary interest (ownership) of the land. What they are charging you for is basically trespass. The parking company will not have any ownership of the land so cannot lawfully issue a charging notice. You will find this all on the website suggested. There have been a couple of cases where a judge has misread this and found in favour of the parking firm but these are rare. Challenge them via POPLA and you will win.

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Don’t engage any further with the parking company, deal with POPLA which takes it all out of their hands and also freezes any time limits re payments and demands.

The debt is a charge not a fine and can only be issued by a person or body who has a proprietary interest (ownership) of the land. What they are charging you for is basically trespass. The parking company will not have any ownership of the land so cannot lawfully issue a charging notice. You will find this all on the website suggested. There have been a couple of cases where a judge has misread this and found in favour of the parking firm but these are rare. Challenge them via POPLA and you will win.

Thanks Nanu, again sound advice. I had a quick read of the POPLA site and it refers to evidence packs. Will I need to get “statements” from my “witnesses” as part of my case to them (I’ve just been watching The Bill ) or would that come later if we actually enter a court case?

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Do you have a tracker on your phone. That will show where you where, if not the car. I'm assuming you don't have one on your Zed.

No tracker on the car. Don’t think I have a tracker on the phone, that said, it is an iPhone so it has find my phone app can that be accessed historically?