So I got a new wide angle lens... Advise wanted!!

aquazi

Elite
 Derby + N. London
Seeing some of the amazing photographer here I thought I would seek some advice :lol:

I am off to Vietnam next week, in preparation I thought I'd get a wide angle lens... As on all my previous holidays my 18mm just hasn't cut it.

So I got the Canon 10-22 lens for my Canon 550D... I've been playing around with it... And I am too stupid to be able to get proper pictures at 10mm of the ground and sky without some distortion around the edges :roll:

Also I presume as my camera isn't a full size sensor it isn't really 10mm but closer to 15mm... Or something along those lines! As the same lens on my friends 7D looks produces wider pictures without the distortion :(
 
I have the same lens.

This is a 10 mm picture taken in Brighton.

img1474x.jpg
 
That was on a 20D camera by the way.

I always make sure I don't have straight lines at the side of the images as that would start to bend.
 
I presume the lens is a Canon 10-22 EFS lens. Great little lens, I also have one, it will give a 35mm equivalent of about 16-35mm ,and will only work with the APS-c sensors, if you try and fit it to a full size sensored Camera e.g 5D, the back of the lens will probably hit the sensor. The 7D also has an APS-c sensor - I also have one. Try stopping down a few stops when taking wider shots, this may help to reduce the edge blurring to some extent. :)
 
You're right that a 550D doesn't have a full size sensor of some of the more expensive cameras (5D for example). I'm assuming from ASW's post though that the EF-S lenses are designed for the smaller APS-C sensors in the 450/500/550D range and therefore the 10-22 is correct for those cameras?
 
5571297367_2c34f5ccf9_b.jpg
M3 by tom_scott88, on Flickr

5571274759_1b40a84f13_b.jpg
M3 by tom_scott88, on Flickr

6816628363_fe77809423_b.jpg
Conison Water Feb 2011 by tom_scott88, on Flickr

Took these three with my 10-22mm for such a wide angle on a crop body its distortion is very well controlled you just have to make sure you set yourself up correctly, generally get down on one knee instead of standing and lowering the camera. (just basic stuff) and keep an eye on the corners for distortion. There is distortion at 10mm but it is very well controlled and if you are careful you can spot it and correct by slightly moving yourself and your aspect.

Saying that the second image you can see the edge of the wheel pulling. Really for car photography you need to be using over 35mm because that will give no distortion at all anything under and the car will pull in one respect, but when shooting on a rig you cant do anything else. I prefer to shoot with my 70-200mm L because its an incredible lens although you have to be careful with that too because it compresses perspective (bringing the background closer to the foreground).

Blurring at the edge shouldn't really be happening, this lens isnt renowned for being soft at all, even at F4 it is sharp but stopping it down to F8 will combat anything over F11 the lens wont be any sharper like the sweet sot. If it is soft your copy may not be in sync with the camera. Canon build the lenses and camera bodies within a tolerance of 3 so +3 to -3 but if you get odd copies of each say a -3 lens and a +3 camera, areas of the lens will not be sharp. The best way of combatting it is using the micro adjust feature (but I dont think the 550D has it just the 50D and the 7D in the APC range) or send it away to be calibrated, or taking it back and getting another copy. This is probably the reason for the difference between your 550D and your friends 7D.

There is no difference in the type of sensor in the 7D vs the 550D they are both APC sized, but just different generations and resolutions, meaning there wont be any change in distortion. EF-s was specifically designed for the crop APC size and they did everything possible so the lenses wouldnt be interchangeable with there full frame EF only cameras like the 5D/1D. Infact the sensor in the 7D has too many pixels 18mp is too much for APC and the biggest complaint about the newer 18mp sensor in the 60D 600D and 7D is that it is extremely noisy at ISO100+200 similar results to the previous generation cameras (40D&50D) at ISO 250. But it is a fantastic camera :thumbsup:

But if you are wanting to replace the extremely poor kit lens then the two best ones for EF-s are the 15-85mm F3.5-5.6 IS but this is a variable aperture lens or the 17-55mm IS F2.8 which I also have and is by far the best lens in the EF-s range pretty much an L series in quality without the weather sealing. Bu the 15-85mm is a cheaper wider and longer and is a great addition with the IS but 5.6 at 85mm is pretty slow, I shoot a lot of night photography so the F2.8 all the way through the range is perfect. The EF lenses 24-70 or 24-105 are also great but not on a crop camera because they are equivalent to 38.4mm at the widest (24x1.6) because the APC is smaller you have to multiply the focal length by 1.6 to get an accurate focal length. Works great with longer lenses. My 70-200 is the equivalent to 112-320mm at 2.8 add a 2x extender to it and it becomes a 224-640mm F5.6 lens!!! amazing for birding or any sports photography just not as sharp but its a trade off a 600mm lens is over £6k. Many people use crop cameras to get the extra length out of the lenses.

Im getting myself a 5D MKIII :evil: I have a 40D atm because I havent found anything worthy of replacement except the 5D MKII so will use both with the 40D as a backup :thumbsup:
 
cj_eds said:
You're right that a 550D doesn't have a full size sensor of some of the more expensive cameras (5D for example). I'm assuming from ASW's post though that the EF-S lenses are designed for the smaller APS-C sensors in the 450/500/550D range and therefore the 10-22 is correct for those cameras?

Yep, the EFS lenses were specifically designed for the APS-C sensored cameras - the S stands for short back focus- . You can use the EFS and EF lenses on your 550D,which is the APS-C sensor, but, the Full size sensored cameras, such as the 5D can only take the EF range.

All the lens focal distances are quoted for a 35mm camera, so, even though the 10-22 EFS is only for the APS-c cameras, and will give a focal range of 16-35mm, it would,if fitted to a 35mm Canon( which it can't) give a focal length of 10-22mm. :)
 
Just read Tom's post, after posting mine. I think he is far more qualified to give you the guidance you need.
Stunning photos. :thumbsup: :)
 
Cheers ASW28 :thumbsup:

Good advise from you too!

Because of the smaller crop it is easier to just think of the focal length as it is, or things get confusing haha! 10mm on full frame is extreme fish eye and is very distorted.

Here is an interesting forum post with people adding images they have taken with their 10-22mm

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,450.0.html

It is the second best EF-s lens bar the 17-55mm F2.8

Here is an image gallery of the 17-55mm

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,449.0.html

I love the 17-55mm and it is stuck to my camera 80% of the time.
 
tomscott said:
Took these three with my 10-22mm for such a wide angle on a crop body its distortion is very well controlled you just have to make sure you set yourself up correctly, generally get down on one knee instead of standing and lowering the camera. (just basic stuff)

Saying that the second image you can see the edge of the wheel pulling. Really for car photography you need to be using over 35mm because that will give no distortion at all anything under and the car will pull in one respect, but when shooting on a rig you cant do anything else. I prefer to shoot with my 70-200mm L because its an incredible lens although you have to be careful with that too because it compresses perspective (bringing the background closer to the foreground).

Blurring at the edge shouldn't really be happening, this lens isnt renowned for being soft at all, even at F4 it is sharp but stopping it down to F8 will combat anything over F11 the lens wont be any sharper like the sweet sot. If it is soft your copy may not be in sync with the camera. Canon build the lenses and body within a tolerance of 3 so +3 to -3 but if you get odd copies of each say a -3 lens and a +3 camera, areas of the lens will not be sharp. The best way of combatting it is using the micro adjust feature (but I dont think the 550D has it just the 50D and the 7D in the APC range) or send it away to be calibrated, or taking it back and getting another copy. This is probably the reason for the difference between your 550D and your friends 7D.

There is no difference in the type of sensor in the 7D vs the 550D they are both APC sized, but just different generations and resolutions, meaning there wont be any change in distortion. EF-s was specifically designed for the crop APC size and they did everything possible so the lenses wouldnt be interchangeable with there full frame EF only cameras like the 5D/1D. Infact the sensor in the 7D has too many pixels 18mp is too much for APC and the biggest complaint about the newer 18mp sensor in the 60D 600D and 7D is that it is extremely noisy at ISO100+200 similar to the previous generation cameras (40D&50D) at ISO 250. But it is a fantastic camera :thumbsup:

But if you are wanting to replace the extremely poor kit lens then the two best ones for EF-s are the 15-85mm F3.5-5.6 IS but this is a variable aperture lens or the 17-55mm IS F2.8 which I also have and is by far the best lens in the EF-s range pretty much an L series in quality without the weather sealing. Bu the 15-85mm is a cheaper wider and longer and is a great addition with the IS but 5.6 at 85mm is pretty slow, I shoot a lot of night photography so the F2.8 all the way through the range is perfect. The EF lenses 24-70 or 24-105 are also great but not on a crop camera because they are equivalent to 38.4mm at the widest (24x1.6) because the APC is smaller you have to multiply the focal length by 1.6 to get an accurate focal length. Works great with longer lenses. My 70-200 is the equivalent to 112-320mm at 2.8 add a 2x extender to it and it becomes a 224-640mm F5.6 lens!!! amazing for birding or any sports photography just not as sharp but its a trade off a 600mm lens is over £6k. Many people use crop cameras to get the extra length out of the lenses.

Im getting myself a 5D MKIII :evil: I have a 40D atm because I havent found anything worthy of replacement except the 5D MKII so will use both with the 40D as a backup :thumbsup:

Wow, nice work Tom, great photos and thanks for taking the time to post the great advice.

I'm not expert other than to 2nd the 70-200 sentiment, just got one myself and it's a great lens (on 5DII)... just looking for an extender now.

Back on topic with the wide angle stuff, I have a 16-35 and a 16mm fisheye and it doesn't half distort (mainly the fisheye) when you don't shoot level. Take the time to get the setup right though (kneeling down etc) and they are cracking lenses.

I would also suggest looking into lens profiles in whatever software you use. The lens correction in Lightroom is pretty good, sorts out (some) distortion and also corrects vignette.
 
Wow thanks guys a whole wealth of info here for me to digest. Some smashing pictures too... Wish i had those skills :( That's great stuff, especially from Tom which I will have to admit some went well above my head :oops:

Yep its the EFS lens So basically the 7d and my 550d should be both the same 16-35mm? The pictures certainly had a wider aspect on his camera over mine.

I thinks at my problem is that I took a pic of the garden and the fence was curved .. Around the end... Which from what I am reading is unavoidable to some degree.... Unless I get my camera calibrated for it which may minimise it slightly? What about my other lens then? ... Or i may just swap the lens with another in the store in that case.

I was planning on using this lens and my zoom and leaving my 18-55 standard lens at home.

What are people's views on Sigma lenses, the 8 -16 caught my eye... Around the same price as my canon one... But has a much more spherical lens, which I guess means a lens filter won't go over it.
 
Ye thats the only problem with full frame its great with standard and wide angle but when it comes to length it gets very expensive so its nice to have the best of both worlds with an APC and a full frame camera with a white L and an extender. The 5D MKII is an amazing camera but the AF is poor my 40D only has 10mp and 9 AF points and the 5D a camera 3 years newer has the same system for 21mp which is what put me off. Incredible quality of image but when the camera doesn't focus properly its a waste, big mistake but I do find the 9 point ok in the 40D just to spend an extra £2000 to have the same system didn't make sense. Now they have addressed it with the 5D MKIII its just swallowing the £3000 body only price :sick: Then the £2000 for the 24-70mm F2.8 II :sick:

Yes software is a great asset the lens profile is amazing like sp3ctre has said. But it wont help if the perspective is off, wide angle does strange things to vertical and horizontal lines you really have to be level with the subject and be at the correct angle to the subject. Even when done right it can still show signs if you look at the M3 pic the rear of the car also pulls in slightly. Just a case of watching and moving as small movements makes a big difference. Only problem is you look a bit of a ploncker to anyone watching haha
 
My current camera is a Canon EOS 600D and I have no real desire to upgrade it as I still only just scratch the surface of what it can do, just need to play with it more. But ironically I have been thinking of buying a wide angle lens, but due to my very limited camera skills don't want to spend a fortune so have been looking at this one http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_171428_-1
Which I intend to purchase when I return to the US in a few weeks, I see no point in paying Canon UK £570 for it when I get it for about £325 over there.
So do you pro's think it's worth getting?
 
aquazi said:
Wow thanks guys a whole wealth of info here for me to digest. Some smashing pictures too... Wish i had those skills :( That's great stuff, especially from Tom which I will have to admit some went well above my head :oops:

Yep its the EFS lens So basically the 7d and my 550d should be both the same 16-35mm? The pictures certainly had a wider aspect on his camera over mine.

I thinks at my problem is that I took a pic of the garden and the fence was curved .. Around the end... Which from what I am reading is unavoidable to some degree.... Unless I get my camera calibrated for it which may minimise it slightly? What about my other lens then? ... Or i may just swap the lens with another in the store in that case.

I was planning on using this lens and my zoom and leaving my 18-55 standard lens at home.

What are people's views on Sigma lenses, the 8 -16 caught my eye... Around the same price as my canon one... But has a much more spherical lens, which I guess means a lens filter won't go over it.

Yes it is the full frame equivalent of 16-35mm. If you take a like for like image with both cameras from a tripod there wont be any difference. Having the lens and camera calibrated will only help if the lens is noticeably soft in certain areas.

The distortion as said is hard to get away from, but can be combatted, you can either zoom in a little or recompose or try not to compose straight lines unless they are moving away from you like in PVRs image. If you are after a standard lens then I would sugest buying a 15-85 or the 17-55mm over the 10-22mm the 10-22mm is more a speciality lens for landscape not so great as an every day lens the short focal length is limiting. Or if you can keep it and buy a standard lens to accompany it.

Sigma lenses IMHO are worth keeping away from it is very hit and miss to get a sharp one, their manufacturing process is not as good as canons also because they are third party they may not always be compatible with your camera if you upgrade as canon continually upgrade their type of auto focus the lenses wont understand the new language it has happened on quite a few of sigmas lenses.

I suppose the best question to ask is what do you want out of the lens?

Unfortunately super telephoto lenses (covering a huge range so you don't have to switch lenses) like a 24-300mm are often very very soft, suffer from awful vignetting and chromatic aberration so you have to carry multiple lenses to achieve quality images. I usually carry:

10-22mm
17-55mm
50mm 1.4
70-200mm L
100mm 2.8 Macro L

then leave the rest at home unless I specifically need them. If i want to go light then i carry the 17-55 and the 70-200 to cover most situations.

I dont use the 10-22mm very often more for landscape or interior shots where things are tight. Like I said it is quite a specific lens, not really a standard lens.
 
RichardG said:
My current camera is a Canon EOS 600D and I have no real desire to upgrade it as I still only just scratch the surface of what it can do, just need to play with it more. But ironically I have been thinking of buying a wide angle lens, but due to my very limited camera skills don't want to spend a fortune so have been looking at this one http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_171428_-1
Which I intend to purchase when I return to the US in a few weeks, I see no point in paying Canon UK £570 for it when I get it for about £325 over there.
So do you pro's think it's worth getting?

Nice lens but not wide angle, especially on a crop sensor. The 10-22mm is your best bet if you do really want a wide angle on a crop.
 
Tom, what do you think of the 18-200 Canon? I don't have one (or a need for one), but it would suit a lot of people on here who want a general walkabout lens.

I met a photographer who had one when I was last in SA and some of the results were really quite good.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001E97GIA/watersphotogr-21/
 
RichardG said:
My current camera is a Canon EOS 600D and I have no real desire to upgrade it as I still only just scratch the surface of what it can do, just need to play with it more. But ironically I have been thinking of buying a wide angle lens, but due to my very limited camera skills don't want to spend a fortune so have been looking at this one http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_171428_-1
Which I intend to purchase when I return to the US in a few weeks, I see no point in paying Canon UK £570 for it when I get it for about £325 over there.
So do you pro's think it's worth getting?

EF 28mm will be the equivalent of 44.8mm so not very wide on a crop camera. It would make a great lens for head and shoulder portraits like a 50mm lens on full frame would.

If you want to go wide with EF-s the only lens is the 10-22mm.

The wide full frame EF16-35mm would work out to be 25.6-56mm on a crop body.

Anything that is not an EF-s lens on a crop body you have to multiply the focal length by 1.6 to get a true focal length on a crop sensor camera. So anything with a EF in front of it.

for example:
16x1.6=25.6, 35x1.6= 56
so an EF 16-35mm would work out 25.6-56mm on a crop camera which is pretty useless really not wide not medium telephoto.

So this applies to any canon user who doesnt have a 5D or 1D camera (full frame)

You are an APC shooter and this applies to you if you have any of these cameras:
1000/1100/350/400/450/500/550/600D
20/30/40/50/60/7D

American
RebelTi/T2i/T3i etc
 
sp3ctre said:
Tom, what do you think of the 18-200 Canon? I don't have one (or a need for one), but it would suit a lot of people on here who want a general walkabout lens.

I met a photographer who had one when I was last in SA and some of the results were really quite good.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001E97GIA/watersphotogr-21/

The 18-200mm is a good walk around lens, it is small not too slow but is a loud lens it doesn't have USM (ultra sonic motor) But does have IS (image stabilisation) and its image quality is not bad for a wide to medium telephoto. It not badly priced at £385 from Digitalrev.com. If it was me I would buy the 15-85mm over it because it also has IS and it has the quiet USM and buy a telephoto to go with it. The 18-200mm isnt an increase in image quality it is on about the same quality scale as the standard kit lens 18-55mm. The 15-85mm is the next step up before the 17-55mm.
 
tomscott said:
The 18-200mm is a good walk around lens, it is small not too slow but is a loud lens it doesn't have USM (ultra sonic motor) But does have IS (image stabilisation) and its image quality is not bad for a wide to medium telephoto. It not badly priced at £385 from Digitalrev.com. If it was me I would buy the 15-85mm over it because it also has IS and it has the quiet USM and buy a telephoto to go with it. The 18-200mm isnt an increase in image quality it is on about the same quality scale as the standard kit lens 18-55mm. The 15-85mm is the next step up before the 17-55mm.

True... problem I had was not wanting to spend ££ on EF-S lenses, as it made the jump to full frame that much more expensive (had to change my lenses at the same time!).

Let us know how you get on with the 5DIII though, might follow suite as it does look rather good. The next 1st world problem I have is trying to convince myself not to hang onto the 5DII as a 2nd body
 
Thanks Tom, Most of this camera stuff is gooblygook to me but inspired by some of the photos on this site, yours included I want to start making more use of mine, My last attempt at trying to take some photos away from the auto settings resulted in overexposed white screens of nothing so lots to learn.
The lens you highlight is another $300 but still works out cheaper than the one I had been looking at in the Uk.
Oh lummee, all this on top of Z4-itis................................Damm this Forum....Damm it all to hell. :D
 
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