sDrive 35i DCT shift pattern

[jingai]

I have a 2015 sDrive35i with DCT. It's bothered me for quite some time now that the car is so eager to row up the gears in Comfort and Sport modes. Pushing the shift lever left solves the problem entirely for me: holds lower gears exactly as I'd like it to, for pretty much every type of driving. The issue is, in slower traffic, the extremely short shifts in this mode are really jarring when they're frequent. Also, without the shift lever pushed left, it's really eager to go back into 1st gear, which is a clunky mess coming to a stop. I've found that stopping in 2nd gear is just so much more smooth.

I'd like some compromise between the two: Normal/standard shift timing, but hold the gears for rather a lot longer than the comfort and sport programs want to do. For crissakes, in low-speed traffic, I am in final gear by 40MPH. Unless I am really on the throttle, it really wants to shift around 2.5K, which just way low IMHO.

Basically, I am wondering what the best solution is here. I've scoured the interwebs and found people using xHP, flashing GTS TCU map, etc, but information is all so scattered and terse that it's hard to make sense of what possible avenues there are to solve this.

On hand I currently have MHD and Bimmergeeks ProTool for Android at my disposal.

Any thoughts? Anyone else fiddled with this?

 

[Busterboo]

I have a 2015 sDrive35i with DCT. It's bothered me for quite some time now that the car is so eager to row up the gears in Comfort and Sport modes.

Isn't this the standard setting for Normal/Comfort mode? My DCT does the same and the engine copes easily. At what revs does yours change?

Pushing the shift lever left solves the problem entirely for me: holds lower gears exactly as I'd like it to, for pretty much every type of driving.

Yep.

The issue is, in slower traffic, the extremely short shifts in this mode are really jarring when they're frequent. Also, without the shift lever pushed left, it's really eager to go back into 1st gear, which is a clunky mess coming to a stop. I've found that stopping in 2nd gear is just so much more smooth.

Nope. This sounds abnormal.

I'd like some compromise between the two: Normal/standard shift timing, but hold the gears for rather a lot longer than the comfort and sport programs want to do. For crissakes, in low-speed traffic, I am in final gear by 40MPH. Unless I am really on the throttle, it really wants to shift around 2.5K, which just way low IMHO.

Why mess with settings when you already have a solution - using the lever - to provide the change points you want?

 

[Marcoose]

Prelim questions:

How long have you owned the car ?
How many miles ?
What’s the DCT maintenance history ?

 

[B21]

The DCT box has many different programs for various conditions…if you want to keep it spinning then putting the gear lever across is the simple option…if that’s your preferred style fine..

With xHP you can redefine the shift programs very extensively but of course it costs money..

 

[jingai]

Isn't this the standard setting for Normal/Comfort mode? My DCT does the same and the engine copes easily. At what revs does yours change?

Depends on throttle position of course, but in traffic, about 2.5K RPM.

The issue is, in slower traffic, the extremely short shifts in this mode are really jarring when they're frequent. Also, without the shift lever pushed left, it's really eager to go back into 1st gear, which is a clunky mess coming to a stop. I've found that stopping in 2nd gear is just so much more smooth.

Nope. This sounds abnormal.

What about it is abnormal? It's been that way since I purchased the car. I'm the second owner, and bought it in 2018 with 20K miles on it. It just feels "lumpy" coming to a stop in first gear. When going, I actually appreciate that it gets out of first gear quickly, but it also moves out of 3rd gear just as quickly, which is generally where I'd prefer it to stay when driving around at 35-40MPH.

Why mess with settings when you already have a solution - using the lever - to provide the change points you want?

Because the shifts are really hard and fast with the lever to the left. If I'm really getting on it, this is fine, but it's a bit aggressive for just driving around town.

How long have you owned the car ?
How many miles ?
What’s the DCT maintenance history ?

Bought the car in Oct 2018 with 20K miles on it with one prior owner. Has 48K miles on it now. AFAIK, nothing has been done to the DCT.

The DCT box has many different programs for various conditions…if you want to keep it spinning then putting the gear lever across is the simple option…if that’s your preferred style fine..

I do prefer the shift pattern, but as above, the hard/fast shifts aren't always appropriate. I wish the Sport button changed the shift pattern as well. It feels like it's exactly the same as in Comfort.

With xHP you can redefine the shift programs very extensively but of course it costs money..

Yeah, was hoping there was another way, with Standard Tools or something.

 

[Busterboo]

jingai, you say "harsh" and "jarring". I've driven only Porsche and BMW DCTs, but they weren't like that and this is why I said yours is perhaps 'abnormal'.

BMW DCTs have a good reputation, but they're not infallible, so is it worth having an other DCT user/AD/indy drive your to see if it's normal or not?

Messing with the box yourself could obviously be a rocky road to ownership Hell.

 

[Marcoose]

My experience with DCTs is limited. But all the DCTs I’ve driven were very smooth. Nothing lumpy or jarring. At times I don’t even feel the downshifting. Even thought your car has low mileage, it could be the DCT needs maintenance. I’d take it to an indy.

You also don’t drive your car much. It could also be managing your expectations. The DCT is programmed to mind fuel consumption in Comfort. Hence the quick unshifting to 7th at only 40 mph. Mine does the same. Extremely smoothly in putzing driving mode. But very different if I give it the beans. Even in Comfort.

I wouldn’t mess with xHP until an indy checks the DCT.

 

[jingai]

I honestly hadn't even considered that mine may be "abnormal" in some way. It hasn't changed since I bought the car, as far as I can tell. This is the only car I've ever driven with a dual clutch transmission, so I never really considered that it might not all be behaving normally.

To be clear though, it is smooth as butter in both Comfort and Sport mode, albeit slower shifts. It is only when I move the lever left that it both the speed of the shifts and the shift pattern change (e.g., it holds gears longer). Is this normal? I actually always thought it was strange that there was no difference between Sport and Comfort with regard to the transmission. Sport does stiffen up the steering and suspension to a mild degree. Is that all it is supposed to do?

The shifts, with the lever moved left, are significantly quicker. This is desirable when I can really get on the car and I don't have any problem with that. I think they may be a bit more jarring than normal based on the feedback I'm getting here, but I always put that down to them just being so quick.

Regarding the "lumpy" feeling in first gear, I think the best way to describe is like driving an old electric golf cart when at very low speeds (e.g., traffic crawling on the freeway at 5-10MPH, or when coming to a stop in general). It seems nearly impossible to comfortably modulate the throttle to keep it smoothly crawling along; letting off the throttle even a touch feels as if the brakes are being applied. I usually just manually put it into 2nd gear in these scenarios and the problem goes away. I think this particular issue may be down to a slight vacuum leak -- I logged my STFTs and LTFTs for a 30 minute drive the other day and found LTFT hovers around +15% at low/idle RPMs, but goes instantly to zero when getting on the throttle. The car hasn't thrown any codes though in the entire time I've owned it, and I check probably once or twice a year.

The lack of a difference with regard to the transmission specifically between Sport and Comfort is really what prompted me to post. I'd expect Sport mode to hold gears longer than when in Comfort; e.g., have a shift pattern more like when the lever is left, but shift speeds more like when in Comfort. I just figured there may be a way to adjust this in software with something like BMW Standard Tools.

 

[B21]

Biggest difference in stock shift patterns is moving the lever to the left..there will nor normally be much difference in comfort and sports mode shift patterns..

Have you verified the correct oil level…

If your fussy xHPis really your only viable option

 

[jingai]

Ok, seems I have my answers then. I'll consider a DCT service and maybe xHP once I've got some money to burn.

Just wanted to see what my options were. Thanks all for the responses!

A couple last semi-related questions that I've always been curious about: why do our cars with DCT creep before setting off unlike what appears to be the case for the M3/4/etc?

Do we have what BMW calls "Low Speed Assist" on the Z4? After a bit of googling, that feature seems to be exactly what I am looking for at low speed when coming to a stop.

And finally, why do we have a dedicated button for Park? Is it best to use that and shut off the car, or just engage the ebrake and shut the car off as it seems all of BMWs other DCT cars want?

 

[B21]

E brake and DCT park are completely independent and autonomous functions..for prolonged wait best to put it into park..

When car is switched off it automatically engages park

You can change issues like creep and start in 2nd gear in xHP

FWIW DCT clutch pressures change on how hard the throttle is pressed..so with full throttle the changes will be harder especially 1-2 and 2-3

 

[jingai]

Thanks again!

FWIW, I now feel mildly embarrassed. I apparently have never -- not once -- tried with the lever to the left in Comfort mode. I've always pushed Sport out of habit every time I get into the car. But.. in this mode, the shift pattern and aggressiveness appears to 100% be exactly what I've been searching for here :lol:

Coming to a stop now is totally smooth.. shift timing is a bit faster but not super aggressive, and best.. it holds gears as I would if shifting manually. Up to 50MPH it never went above 4th gear, and generally stays in 2nd until I come to a stop. I feel like a complete moron now.. thanks to all who put up with my rant!

 

[Marcoose]

Just making sure we’re on the same page. When the gear lever is to the left, it’s called manual mode. Though (at least my 35is) automatically upshifts at the red line. (It doesn’t hit the rev limiter.) And it automatically downshifts to 1st when the car is about to or stopped.

If you drive in ‘manual’, yes, it’s clunky. I reckon by design to make faster, sportier changes. Though the stock map is massively slow, even in Sport+.

Hence the question about time and mileage of ownership. It’s possible you haven’t got used to the car yet.

 

[jingai]

See, this is part of the reason I posted in the first place: descriptions of this gearbox in this car in particular seem to be all over the place.

For my car, if I move the lever to the left, it still automatically shifts (prior to redline), unless I manually shift gears at least once. If I do that, it remains in manual mode and will only automatically upshift at redline and downshift if RPMs are too low.

The two dedicated buttons marked Sport and Comfort seem, on my car, to be dependent on the position of the shift lever. If I leave the lever in the central position, Comfort is like a default "eco" mode: shifts are slow/comfortable, and it wants to get to final gear as quickly as possible. Pressing the Sport button once does not change the shift pattern or timing at all, but does seem to stiffen the steering and suspension a bit. From the perspective of the transmission, basically nothing changes between presses of the Comfort and Sport button with the shift lever in the central position.

However, if I have the shift lever to the left while Comfort is selected, the shift pattern absolutely changes (as described in my post calling myself out as a moron), and the shift timing seems to be slightly more aggressive/faster, but not nearly as aggressive as what I was describing in the first post. The steering and suspension also seem to stiffen up like if I had pressed the Sport button. This is all exactly what I want and is how I will drive the car from now on.

Finally, if I have the shift lever to the left and engage the Sport button, all of the above bits are engaged, but the shift timing is also super aggressive, which was my original complaint. This is enjoyable when I'm really getting on the car for fun, but was absolutely horrid in low-speed traffic. It simply never occurred to me for some reason to ignore the Sport button and just move the lever to the left.

I know this is long-winded, but if you're still with me here: the above descriptions seem to be at odds with some other people's descriptions of the logic, but also match others I've found on other forums, videos, etc. I am not sure why but it seems like there may be different programs out there in the wild for our cars in particular?

I'm still quite curious why the descriptions of this gearbox seem to vary so much around the internet, but at least at this point I'm happy that I've found a mode that does exactly what I want it to do

 

[jingai]

E brake and DCT park are completely independent and autonomous functions..for prolonged wait best to put it into park..

Yes, that much I am aware of, that mechanically they are separate. The only reason I asked is because...

When car is switched off it automatically engages park

...BMW actually has a "tutorial" video for the M cars with DCT where they specifically describe that the shutdown procedure is to:

1. Depress brake pedal,
2. Engage ebrake,
3. Shut off the car

I suspect it's simply because they don't have a dedicated P button, but was curious if this also correct for our cars for some esoteric reason, and honestly, why we even have a P button at all on the Z4. Just a curiosity.

You can change issues like creep and start in 2nd gear in xHP

Yeah. And as much as I really do want this, I don't know how wealthy I'd need to be to justify $400+ just for these two minor things :lol:

Random aside question, in case I ever do go this route: if you disable creep with xHP, does it also have the Low Speed Assist where you blip the throttle to get it to crawl in traffic?

FWIW DCT clutch pressures change on how hard the throttle is pressed..so with full throttle the changes will be harder especially 1-2 and 2-3

Definitely correct. Took a bit of adjusting to at first, and it's definitely way more noticeable with the Sport button engaged and the shift lever moved to the left.

 

[Marcoose]

It seems more and more to me that your car is operating as intended. And that it doesn’t match your taste of driving.

I too hated a few things about my car when I first bought it. Suspension and steering were massively disappointing. So was downshifting in Sport+. It cost money, but they’re considerably more acceptable now.

It’s peculiar you put your car in manual and let it shift at the red line. It’d surprise me BMW wanted for the DCT to run like that all the time. I wonder if it’s causing premature wear.

That’s all I have to offer. Good luck with your quest.

 

[jingai]

It’s peculiar you put your car in manual and let it shift at the red line. It’d surprise me BMW wanted for the DCT to run like that all the time. I wonder if it’s causing premature wear.

I don't, though. I was only saying it only does that if I manually shift gears at least once. If I push the lever to the left (for manual mode), it will automatically shift normally (albeit later, as I said I prefer). It is only when I manually select a gear at least once that it will do as you describe, until I push the lever back to the right again.

The crux of the issue I think for me is that intuitively, I thought the Sport button was kind of a Stage 2 shift program, and pushing the lever left to manual was kind of a Stage 3. I think I was just thinking about it backwards (or, non-German, lol): Stage 2 in terms of shift program seems to be pushing the lever left, and Stage 3 seems to be engaging Sport button while also having the shift lever in manual mode.

I'm pretty curious though about your description of selecting manual mode. It seems you are describing that it will only shift at the limits for you. For me, that is not the case. Of course it will if I'm WOT, in any mode, but at lower speeds it will happily shift up and down prior to the limits. It just only does so in a fashion that I like if I have the lever in manual mode, whereas I was always expecting the Sport button to do that.

In usual BMW fashion, the nuance is really confusing to relate to others succinctly, but to sum it up after all this back-and-forth, it seems that there are essentially 3 shift programs in these cars, or at least mine:

1. Comfort/Sport
2. Comfort + M/S
3. Sport + M/S

What threw me off is that I wanted the stiffer steering and suspension all of the time, and I assumed I needed to press the Sport button to get that. It appears that #2 in the list above does both of those things, plus the shift pattern of #3, but the shift timing is in between 1 and 3. That was what I was originally asking for, but it was very much not intuitive to me how to achieve that until I realized there was one combination I had never tried...

 

[B21]

Comfort mode…lazy gear program, slower throttle response, lighter steering, adaptive dampers soft..

Sport mode ..sharper response to throttle, different shift pattern at high end, heavier steering, adaptive dampers on firm

Sports+ mode as above but DCT doesn’t shift automatically into next gear if in manual mode, relaxed stability control

Independently moving DCT to left changes to sharper DCT mode..different from Sport mode..does not affect any other variables in the mode that is selected..

There are hidden impacts on cooling , oil pressure etc but these are not observable

 

[matsmith749]

I was playing with the 'lever to the left' mode on mine yesterday.

Quick question - if you touch the paddles, it then stays in manual only mode.

I tend to use auto mode most of the time, with a manual paddle input now & again when overtaking.

Is there a way to flick it back to being auto changing even though the lever is to the left?

 

[B21]

I was playing with the 'lever to the left' mode on mine yesterday.

Quick question - if you touch the paddles, it then stays in manual only mode.

I tend to use auto mode most of the time, with a manual paddle input now & again when overtaking.

Is there a way to flick it back to being auto changing even though the lever is to the left?

AFAIK..once you’ve left shifted it and you put into manual mode it will only shift up as it hits max rpm..and then stay in that gear …I think it will downshift as it reaches the lower limit..but it’s not functioning in ‘proper’ auto mode…your other option is I suspect as you are doing is to leave it in normal mode and select comfort / sport mode..

I don’t think xHP offers such an option but it overcomes that by offering multiple (7 levels) of ‘behaviour from each of the 3 modes…comfort , sport left shift..