roof hydraulics too hot

H

huytonman

Member
This warning message (or something very similar I was driving at the time) cropped up today when the roof was playing silly buggers. It gone through a phase of the clamshell not dropping down when closing and now its intermittantly complaining with the roof open, the button flashes red, the gong goes off and Occasionally the message roof not latched pops up but then they clear for a while then reappear. So I know there is an issue and Bryans helpful pdf has been read a few times but hot hydraulics is a new symptom, anybody else had this one?
thanks Keith
 
Hello, at the risk of sounding like old wives tales...

One of the posters mentioend lubing the multitude of hinges and catches..

I thought it was mumbo jumbo, however I did get a can of PTFE WD40 type spray and gave all the hinges I could see a good spray using a cloth to stop the overspray..I needed to park the roof in about 3 positions to get to most of the hinges..

The net result is a small reduction in closing/opening times BUT a big reduction in the creaking and groaning from the system and a perceptible improvement in smoothness of operation..

On the one side hydraulic rams can overcome a lot of friction and generate a lot of force..however it seems that the sheer complexity of the job an overwhelm the system once the joints get dry..

For what its worth..
 
Pbondar said:
Hello, at the risk of sounding like old wives tales...

One of the posters mentioend lubing the multitude of hinges and catches..

I thought it was mumbo jumbo, however I did get a can of PTFE WD40 type spray and gave all the hinges I could see a good spray using a cloth to stop the overspray..I needed to park the roof in about 3 positions to get to most of the hinges..

The net result is a small reduction in closing/opening times BUT a big reduction in the creaking and groaning from the system and a perceptible improvement in smoothness of operation..

On the one side hydraulic rams can overcome a lot of friction and generate a lot of force..however it seems that the sheer complexity of the job an overwhelm the system once the joints get dry..

For what its worth..
Click to expand...

Its a good thought, I was condsidering lubing the joints over winter but given the latest errors Il get onto it asap, probably use lithium grease or something similar. thanks for the comments, appreciated
Keith
 
Hi, I think overheating roof hydraulics are mentioned in the handbook if multiple operations are attempted in quick succession-it's not necessarily a fault.
Rob
 
Could it be the last part is not latching and the pump is continuously running to try and close and overheating.
I think it would take several cycles to overheat.
 
flybobbie said:
Could it be the last part is not latching and the pump is continuously running to try and close and overheating.
I think it would take several cycles to overheat.
Click to expand...

That is my thought too, the pump may actually be running even though no actuation is taking place; waiting for my Carly adaptor to turn up then I can check the error codes but looks like the warranty will be getting some exercise ..
Thanks Keith
 
huytonman said:
flybobbie said:
Could it be the last part is not latching and the pump is continuously running to try and close and overheating.
I think it would take several cycles to overheat.
Click to expand...

That is my thought too, the pump may actually be running even though no actuation is taking place; waiting for my Carly adaptor to turn up then I can check the error codes but looks like the warranty will be getting some exercise ..
Thanks Keith
Click to expand...

Hi Keith, as above, this is my guess, sometimes I've seen this but normally it's linked with either the windows not raising after roof operation or the boot lid not being able to be opened normally when the roof is down. This can lead to the pump continuing to cycle after the boot lid closes back down but the micro switches ( one or the other on the boot lid circuit ) habe failed or is intermittent. The boot lid is down but it not correctly locked, the pump continues to run and overheat . Items 4 and 5 on the PDF are the likely culprits ( boot ring circuit ) When the boot closes the last part of the operation is the locks swivelling onto the lock pins, either switch failure will cause the incomplete operation, and as I say is normally associated with windows not raising or boot lid not being able to be opened . The other potential issue is the First switch I changed in my PDF, I have a spare of that switch if you need one .

I have Carly but this is unlikely to tell you what exactly is the issue, but your welcome to borrow mine or come and see if we can sort it for you .
 
Thanks Bryan, 4 & 5 were on my hitlist from the original faulty behaviour, clam not always closing, but that seemed to have gone awol and was replaced by the opening fault, which was accompanied by the windows not raising so again looks like you are right about 4 & 5. Thanks for offering to look at it, i'll be in touch is I cant get a solution.
Keith
 
huytonman said:
Pbondar said:
Hello, at the risk of sounding like old wives tales...

One of the posters mentioend lubing the multitude of hinges and catches..

I thought it was mumbo jumbo, however I did get a can of PTFE WD40 type spray and gave all the hinges I could see a good spray using a cloth to stop the overspray..I needed to park the roof in about 3 positions to get to most of the hinges..

The net result is a small reduction in closing/opening times BUT a big reduction in the creaking and groaning from the system and a perceptible improvement in smoothness of operation..

On the one side hydraulic rams can overcome a lot of friction and generate a lot of force..however it seems that the sheer complexity of the job an overwhelm the system once the joints get dry..

For what its worth..
Click to expand...

Its a good thought, I was condsidering lubing the joints over winter but given the latest errors Il get onto it asap, probably use lithium grease or something similar. thanks for the comments, appreciated
Keith
Click to expand...
Hi I was the original poster of this info, I used a PTFE spray, like a WD40 but more Hi tech, a few days later i used a spray white lithium grease. All are avaIlable for around £5 a tin from B and Q. USE A SHEET TO PROTECT YOUR INTERIOR FROM OVERSPRAY....
 
huytonman said:
Thanks Bryan, 4 & 5 were on my hitlist from the original faulty behaviour, clam not always closing, but that seemed to have gone awol and was replaced by the opening fault, which was accompanied by the windows not raising so again looks like you are right about 4 & 5. Thanks for offering to look at it, i'll be in touch is I cant get a solution.
Keith
Click to expand...

Yep clam not closing and windows not raising would definitely make me change 4 &5 mate . Only about 18 quid each, and about 2 hrs work tops , as I say happy to do it for you .
 
After discussing my roof issues with Bryan I ordered two microswitches and rather than experiment on fitting them myself arranged a visit to Bryan. Turned out that a hall sensor had failed and luckily Bryan had one spare so that together with one microswitch was fitted yesterday. It wasnt quite as straight forward as expected due to a ceased screw but thanks to some ingenuity from Bryan we sorted it all out. The roof is now working perfectly and now that ive been through the process I would be happy to do the work mysel next time if needed.
What more can I say other than its guys like Bryan who are willing to help out that makes the forum a great place to be a part of, my car is under warranty so in theory I could have had this done by a dealer but I doubt my local one would have the knowledge that Bryan has and im certain they would have had the car for more than the couple of hours that it took yesterday.
Thanks Bryan!!
 
Not a problem at all Keith, always good to help a fellow watch enthusiast and a member with the right colour car with the right colour interior :D
 
Hi I have recently had a problem with my m3 White Bmw e93.. I only drive this once a week and decided to open the roof after a month..10/11/2018 it worked perfectly fine then got stuck half way coming down .. I waited for a while and error message came up after trying to open it again ... “hydraulic system too hot “. I couldn’t get it to wrk so I had to call aa to come help .. the guy never had w clue and told me to google the issue .. no windows going up also roof was stuck half way . We managed to open the boot cover and release the hydraulic alum key to be able to close it manually ... the aa guy did not have the special key to close the roof manually .. luckily after a short while I pressed the close button and the roof locked into place and all windows went up .. can anybody help as I’m scared to let the roof down again 😞
 
Bryan,

I seem to be having a similar problem with my 2009 E89 - got quote over £2k for a new pump, but I don't actually think it's the pump itself.
Diags run by a local workshop to me tell me the pump is overheating, and to me it looks/sounds like the pump continues to run when the roof is "almost" shut.
I end up with the roof stuck open, or sometimes even "half" open.
When I then leave the car in the garage for a day it normally works perfectly for one, or two, cycles before getting stuck again.

Where are you based? UK for a guess, but where in the UK?
Or have you got your PDF somewhere to hand? I can't seem to find it online anywhere.

Anything would be better than handing over >£2k for a new pump when I don't think it's required.

Cheers
 
Correct, get the 2 microswitches coupling lock replaced. Nothing else, the pump is ok.
 
Thanks for the responses - just to be clear. The microswitches you mention are the "salmon red" relays that are on the side of the pump?

https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/z4-e85-e89-z8-e52-1er-2er-3er-e93-4er-f33-6er-e64-f12-8er-f91-g14-minir57-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-2-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521/

The ones in the link above, that can be got for just a few quid?

Seems like a no-brainer to try. The workshop had my car for a week and couldn't suss it out. But like I mentioned, their diagnostics said the pump was overheating which is what led me to this discussion.
 
No.. :thumbsdown:

It’s the two micro switches on each linkage on either side of the boot..

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=129556
 
Ah, okay.
Thanks for the clarification. Just as well I checked 😀

I'll have a look online for them and see if I can get to them to replace them.

Thanks again!
 
wingett said:
..just to be clear. The microswitches you mention are the "salmon red" relays that are on the side of the pump?
Click to expand...

OMG:
Switch is switch and relay is relay. :rofl:

And of course, get the 2 salmon relays replaced by new ones as well!
 
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