Relocated Roof Motor, still not working.

[AlexP]

Hello everyone

I have replaced and relocated the roof motor to the boot, however I haven't been able to get it working.

I followed the instructions from this youtube guide i found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPhwOO654JA&t=292s

As per the attached images, i spent hours trying to get it out myself and after eventually getting it out, I replaced the motor, topped up the hydraulic fluid and used WD40 to release the stuck hydrualic fluid releaser (as seen in one of the photos).

The roof unlatches normally, the motor is running, however the hood does not come down. I am not sure what else i may be doing wrong as I followed the above youtube guide and other guides i have found online.

I would have loved to have taken the car to one of the specialists on this forum as I have heard great things about, however I am living in Cyprus for the past 6 years (I brought my Z4 over from the UK), and all the garages i have reached out to either do not want to do the job or have no idea how to do it, so I have attempted to do it on my own.

I appreciate any assistance, thank you.
Alex

 

[Street]

A couple of ideas:
- Did you ensure the pin was back in place between the motor and the pump
- Can you manually assist the roof while its running to give it some help initially? The pump is self bleeding normally but a little help dont hurt.
- Did you plug the motor in the right way. Reverse the wires and it will be trying to close!
- Can you manually retract the roof fully just to make sure the rams are free
- Its hard to see the fluid in the reseviour but assume you filled it up at least half way

 

[Jas- USA]

1st thing you should do is a hydraulic pressure test. Start the car, push top down and when the electric top motor stops, get out of the car and attempt to manually push the top down. It should not move and be as hard as a brick to push down.

You wrote, you topped off the hydraulic fluid, how low was it before you topped it off (was the plastic top on the pump empty before you started).

You wrote, you cleared the emergency by-pass at the pump head with WD-40, are you sure that this is clear. (if it was jammed open it would lose hydraulic pressure and the motor would run but the top wouldn't move)

When you transferred your new electric motor to the old pump head is it correctly done. (I can't help with this because I've never done this and I'm unsure if an incorrect fitting of the motor to the pump would cause the hydraulic system to lose pressure).

Before you changed out the electric motor, was the old motor running but the top not moving, like it is with the new motor.

Since topping off the hydraulic system with fluid has the fluid level dropped again since running the motor??

After checking your own work (jammed emergency by-pass and the new top motor) and your certain that they are correctly done then you're going to need to remove the top from the car.

 

[inkey$]

Know this sounds obvious, but its not the inner rear parcel shelf is it? Have you put it back in the up position meaning the hood wont retract because it needs to be in its down position?

 

[enuff_zed]

If the motor is running then all the electrics, signals etc are good.
So either one of the pins isn't fitted so the pump isn't being turned, the bypass is still operating, or most horribly, the pies are leaking fluid. If this were the case then the reservoir level would drop very quickly.
Also, my pet thing with these.................. if you only fill the fluid to the '+' on the side then lay the pump at an angle it can leave an inlet port uncovered and just suck in air.
Stand it upright and keep filling until it overflows. Then put it back in place and try it.

 

[AlexP]

A couple of ideas:
- Did you ensure the pin was back in place between the motor and the pump
- Can you manually assist the roof while its running to give it some help initially? The pump is self bleeding normally but a little help dont hurt.
- Did you plug the motor in the right way. Reverse the wires and it will be trying to close!
- Can you manually retract the roof fully just to make sure the rams are free
- Its hard to see the fluid in the reseviour but assume you filled it up at least half way

Yes i believe the pin was correctly back in place between the motor and the pump. I can assist the roof while its running but it still doesnt latch on and can just manually retract the roof myself. Motor is plugged the right way, tried reversing the wires, no difference.

1st thing you should do is a hydraulic pressure test. Start the car, push top down and when the electric top motor stops, get out of the car and attempt to manually push the top down. It should not move and be as hard as a brick to push down.

Thats a good point Jas, when i unlatch the roof with the button, i can manually retract the roof, however when i try to lift it back up, it doesnt allow me to lift it and it does feel like a brick and can feel something really heavy is holding it down. Then id have to pull the red lever in order to manually allow me to pull the roof back up. Surely this should mean something?

Before you changed out the electric motor, was the old motor running but the top not moving, like it is with the new motor.

The old motor was not running, no, the new one is so i would assume that was the initial problem, and that the electronics are okay as it runs.

You wrote, you cleared the emergency by-pass at the pump head with WD-40, are you sure that this is clear. (if it was jammed open it would lose hydraulic pressure and the motor would run but the top wouldn't move)

I removed the black plastic to get to the jammed button, to which after some WD 40 and force, allowed the button to be pushed in and out.

Know this sounds obvious, but its not the inner rear parcel shelf is it? Have you put it back in the up position meaning the hood wont retract because it needs to be in its down position?

Nope, otherwise this would bring out an orange light while pressing the button to unlatch the hood so it wont even allow it in the first place. So i made sure the parcel shelf was in its position in order to work.

If the motor is running then all the electrics, signals etc are good.
So either one of the pins isn't fitted so the pump isn't being turned, the bypass is still operating, or most horribly, the pies are leaking fluid. If this were the case then the reservoir level would drop very quickly.
Also, my pet thing with these.................. if you only fill the fluid to the '+' on the side then lay the pump at an angle it can leave an inlet port uncovered and just suck in air.
Stand it upright and keep filling until it overflows. Then put it back in place and try it.

I may have to open it up again and show you a picture of how the pin is, just in case i may have inserted it wrong. The reservoir level has not dropped, therefore i don't think it is leaking fluid.

 

[enuff_zed]

[ref]AlexP[/ref], if you can manually move it one way but not the other, even with the bypass plunger fully out, then you have a hydraulic issue.
Firstly, check the reservoir is as full as you can possibly get it, otherwise one of the intake points could be drawing air in.
In addition to the drive pin, there are also three tiny pins that fit into the metal disc in the pump section. If this came out and the pins have fallen out then this could be your issue too.
Thirdly, it could be that the pump is weak and you will need a new one.
I'll get some photos of those pins and be back shortly.

 

[enuff_zed]

Here you go, the pins are minute and very easy to lose. They fit flush in the three holes around the metal impeller.

 

[bigwinn]

Are you 100% sure your pipes are in the correct holes?

11/13
12/14

Etc

 

[enuff_zed]

Are you 100% sure your pipes are in the correct holes?

11/13
12/14

Etc

I think I can make out 12 & 14 on the front union, assuming it's not been disturbed since then?

 

[bigwinn]

Are you 100% sure your pipes are in the correct holes?

11/13
12/14

Etc

I think I can make out 12 & 14 on the front union, assuming it's not been disturbed since then?

I’ll stand corrected but I thought 11/13 went in the left hand ports and 12/14 in the right

I can’t see the marks on the pump head that I usually follow when reconnecting

 

[enuff_zed]

Are you 100% sure your pipes are in the correct holes?

11/13
12/14

Etc

I think I can make out 12 & 14 on the front union, assuming it's not been disturbed since then?

I’ll stand corrected but I thought 11/13 went in the left hand ports and 12/14 in the right

I can’t see the marks on the pump head that I usually follow when reconnecting

I think you may be correct, but if they are the other way around then the wires go to the other terminals and it works ok.
OP says he's tried swapping the wires.
The main thing is odds together and evens together.

 

[enuff_zed]

I think I can make out 12 & 14 on the front union, assuming it's not been disturbed since then?

I’ll stand corrected but I thought 11/13 went in the left hand ports and 12/14 in the right

I can’t see the marks on the pump head that I usually follow when reconnecting

I think you may be correct, but if they are the other way around then the wires go to the other terminals and it works ok.
OP says he's tried swapping the wires.
The main thing is odds together and evens together.

Woah! Hang on. I re-read and the OP does NOT say he's reversed the wires.
Could it really be that simple?
Apologies [ref]bigwinn[/ref]

Though I still don't think it would move down by hand without the plunger being in.

 

[Jas- USA]

Since the OP car failed 50% of the pressure test (top comes down manually without engaging the by-pass) but, is as hard as rock to manually attempt to bring the top up without engaging the by-pass the issue is the pump head. The pump either simply failed, there was an error made when changing out the new pump head to the new motor or the by-pass is hopelessly jammed within the pump. I've never done anything with the pump so I can't help with that.

The good news is the hinge lifters are good since the top is hard to bring up.

Pump's do fail. The attached video (go to about 4:00) shows a top with a failed by-pass that is jammed. When they attempt to drop the top, you can hear the motor running without any movement from the top, so the motor is good. However, when a new motor/pump combo is installed the top works. Since the old motor was running, the problem had to be pump failure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADJpC9iOaOI&t=271s

 

[AlexP]

AlexP, if you can manually move it one way but not the other, even with the bypass plunger fully out, then you have a hydraulic issue.
Firstly, check the reservoir is as full as you can possibly get it, otherwise one of the intake points could be drawing air in.
In addition to the drive pin, there are also three tiny pins that fit into the metal disc in the pump section. If this came out and the pins have fallen out then this could be your issue too.

Thanks for your reply, i've filled up the reservoir fully and it still did not work. I've also double checked with the pins and they are in place as well.

Woah! Hang on. I re-read and the OP does NOT say he's reversed the wires.
Could it really be that simple?
Apologies bigwinn

Though I still don't think it would move down by hand without the plunger being in.

Yes i tried reversing the wires as well but still, the motor would work but would not pull the top down.

Since the OP car failed 50% of the pressure test (top comes down manually without engaging the by-pass) but, is as hard as rock to manually attempt to bring the top up without engaging the by-pass the issue is the pump head. The pump either simply failed, there was an error made when changing out the new pump head to the new motor or the by-pass is hopelessly jammed within the pump. I've never done anything with the pump so I can't help with that.

The good news is the hinge lifters are good since the top is hard to bring up.

I am starting to believe that indeed it is a hydraulic pump issue..I guess that is the next part in which i would need to change in order to see if that is the issue. I searched on eBay and i only find complete units including the motor, but as previously mentioned i had bought the motor separately. I haven't found just the pump itself separately

Also...as i am not very knowledgeable but with the attached pictures, with the connectors which are corroded, could this be an issue? Ive used WD40 on them but haven't attempted anything else.

With the bypass button under the black plastic, is there anything in particular that i should check for this? I can press it in and out as its not jammed anymore, but not sure when its open or closed, it just feels like a button i can press in.

 

[Jas- USA]

Take the entire plastic housing off the pump so the emergency by-pass cable is no longer attached to pump. Afterwards, spray WD-40 on the brass/copper ball bearing and work it by hand in/out.

Maybe because of the pump being relocated to the trunk the emergency cable is somehow engaging the pump and releasing the pressure needed to move the top.

 

[DMike]

Take the entire plastic housing off the pump so the emergency by-pass cable is no longer attached to pump. Afterwards, spray WD-40 on the brass/copper ball bearing and work it by hand in/out.

Maybe because of the pump being relocated to the trunk the emergency cable is somehow engaging the pump and releasing the pressure needed to move the top.

This was what I had - had to slightly adjust the bowden cable turning the white thread on the cable cover. And also had to top up hydraulic fluid as the pump was relocated into a 45 deg angle.

 

[Jas- USA]

Take the entire plastic housing off the pump so the emergency by-pass cable is no longer attached to pump. Afterwards, spray WD-40 on the brass/copper ball bearing and work it by hand in/out.

Maybe because of the pump being relocated to the trunk the emergency cable is somehow engaging the pump and releasing the pressure needed to move the top.

This was what I had - had to slightly adjust the bowden cable turning the white thread on the cable cover. And also had to top up hydraulic fluid as the pump was relocated into a 45 deg angle.

Yea, I didn't know the O/P had keep the Black Plastic rig for the bowden cable attached to the Pump/Motor and now that it's relocated, the bowden cable might be somehow getting snagged in the top when coming down releasing all of the pressure need to move the top. Well, I hope this is the issue.

 

[AlexP]

Take the entire plastic housing off the pump so the emergency by-pass cable is no longer attached to pump. Afterwards, spray WD-40 on the brass/copper ball bearing and work it by hand in/out.

I did exact this, for multiple days as well spraying and working it in/out, also I siphoned out the existing hydraulic fluid and filled it all the way to the top with new fluid, but again the problem still exists.

Yea, I didn't know the O/P had keep the Black Plastic rig for the bowden cable attached to the Pump/Motor and now that it's relocated, the bowden cable might be somehow getting snagged in the top when coming down releasing all of the pressure need to move the top. Well, I hope this is the issue.

The Black plastic doesn't need to be screwed on to see if it actually works right? I have it unscrewed as we speak. I really don't know what else to try...should I just buy a new hydraulic pump just in case that may be the issue? Eliminating part by part?

If anyone on this forum who has done the job before is coming at all in summer to Cyprus for holiday and wants to make some money that would be amazing I feel like i am out of options. There is no one here(country-wide), not even the authorized bmw dealerships who know how to fix it, or at least diagnose it properly.

 

[enuff_zed]

[ref]AlexP[/ref], the pumps tend to fail in one direction first.
I assume you have filled the reservoir right to the very top first, and that the level is not dropping?
You need to be sure of this as it is possible for one of the ports to be uncovered if not full right up and placed at an angle.

To test the pump, swap the pipes from side to side, making sure you keep 11/13 and 12/14 together.
Then also swap the electrical connections over.
If it is a weak pump then you may find it will go up better and not be so good going down (though gravity helps it that way)

You may also need to get a friend to help it up the first time or two as there will be air in the pipes that it needs to force out.

It would be helpful if you could prove it was the pump as it may then be possible to source one on its own, though they are quite hard to find.