A discussion some may want to politely add their thoughts to..... http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/totd-fast-cars-that-arent-any-more/34340
Pistonheads TOTD: Z4M / E46 M3 - Are they just not that fast?
- Thread starter Fishy Dave
- Start date
Things do move on, In 1980 I drove the new and revolutionary Audi Quattro T and was wetting myself at the performance. 197 bhp was a big number and combined with 4wd was just about untouchable by anything else on the road. Today it's not 'fast', but still a great and very desirable car that was fast in it's day.
Same will apply to the ///M cars as time passes but they, like the Quattro will always be special.
Same will apply to the ///M cars as time passes but they, like the Quattro will always be special.
Its very true that modern fairly standard cars are as fast as my car. In my case a 3.0l i had a guy in VW bora with a child seat in the back make my car look very average recently :x 
But as said modern cars are just not as connected these big power numbers and amazing engineering is fantastic.
But when i brought my car i was looking for front engine rear drive 2 seater. There isn't anything else really. And anything else in the price range wouldn't have given me the driving experience of z4. Plus the guy in the vw has to do his doughnuts in revers and thats just no fun.
Modern cars may have more power might be faster. But z4s and there layout can brake lose (they have enough power for that) and take concentration and feel to drive fast (aids off) And that more fun than 0-60 bragging down the pub. Over steer will always be more fun and just better in every way than under steer out of a corner.
Thats just my view.
But as said modern cars are just not as connected these big power numbers and amazing engineering is fantastic. But when i brought my car i was looking for front engine rear drive 2 seater. There isn't anything else really. And anything else in the price range wouldn't have given me the driving experience of z4. Plus the guy in the vw has to do his doughnuts in revers and thats just no fun.
Modern cars may have more power might be faster. But z4s and there layout can brake lose (they have enough power for that) and take concentration and feel to drive fast (aids off) And that more fun than 0-60 bragging down the pub. Over steer will always be more fun and just better in every way than under steer out of a corner.
Thats just my view.
I want the driving experience. With this criteria in mind a 343 BHP normally aspirated (no turbo lag etc) straight 6, six speed gearbox and rear wheel drive has to be the formula for the ultimate machine. Flappy paddles, 4 wheel drive and the nth degree of computer controlled traction etc will no doubt go faster in a computer game type way. I do not want to drive a computer game machine. That's my view and why I bought a Z4M.
lets not gorget though, the same applies to the like of the Gt4 which is billed as one of the best in the last decade, it ONLY has 380, which is 40 more?? nothing really loads.... i think the power race of today has gone crazy, my friend turned up to mine yesterday in a new rs3 370hp and I'm not even joking, it was ballistic.... faster than 80% of things on the road...
for me, I'm right in the range of the the 911R... 500hp+, relative light weight, manual, rear drive, special engine, excellent brakes / suspension.. very happy with that combo, don't need to be selling and trying to get the same formula elsewhere.
the stock z4m may not be really really fast in todays performance car terms but its more than fast enough and thrills to a new level...
for me, I'm right in the range of the the 911R... 500hp+, relative light weight, manual, rear drive, special engine, excellent brakes / suspension.. very happy with that combo, don't need to be selling and trying to get the same formula elsewhere.
the stock z4m may not be really really fast in todays performance car terms but its more than fast enough and thrills to a new level...
A
Anonymous
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Modded versus standard. Here endeth the thread...
But on a serious note, it's a ten year old car. If the thread title is "are they really that fast any more", define fast. Sub 5 seconds? Yes. 100 in 12? Yes. The AMG A class and RS3 are £40k+ cars in 2016... if you have the money to buy quicker, boring, hot hatches, you're more than welcome to leave the fun stuff to us lot!
But on a serious note, it's a ten year old car. If the thread title is "are they really that fast any more", define fast. Sub 5 seconds? Yes. 100 in 12? Yes. The AMG A class and RS3 are £40k+ cars in 2016... if you have the money to buy quicker, boring, hot hatches, you're more than welcome to leave the fun stuff to us lot!
Fast against most stuff on the road but not that fast when compared to modern performance cars now sums it up for me, the engine is now 16 years old so you wouldn't expect many to think its still fast really in this Turbo age.
The S54 is a rewarding engine for sure but I never thought it felt fast but maybe that's because I have been used to a TVR with 420bhp/380torque and a couple of torque filled diesels, the S54 needs revs to be really enjoyed and I think that gives the feeling of it not being that fast.
The S54 is a rewarding engine for sure but I never thought it felt fast but maybe that's because I have been used to a TVR with 420bhp/380torque and a couple of torque filled diesels, the S54 needs revs to be really enjoyed and I think that gives the feeling of it not being that fast.
It's funny that on PH you'll never hear the same said about the mythical 335d, now XDrive!
The Z4M is nearly four seconds faster to 200kph according to sport auto and right in between an E92 M3 and the 1M.
Still not slow after all these years, yet it depends what you are used to. I ride m'bikes regulary with over 1000bhp per ton, you get used to that pretty quickly too.
For me, it's all about driver enjoyment and I'm still in love with my Zed
The Z4M is nearly four seconds faster to 200kph according to sport auto and right in between an E92 M3 and the 1M.
Still not slow after all these years, yet it depends what you are used to. I ride m'bikes regulary with over 1000bhp per ton, you get used to that pretty quickly too.
For me, it's all about driver enjoyment and I'm still in love with my Zed
I would never have the S54 down as feeling massively torquey & that for me is where the feel of "fast" is really felt
The ///Ms are a car of great character though that the fast VAGs can't match & especially capable in & out of the bends but as mentioned there are many alternatives for similar money that would rattle a ///M quite easily
My son's current modified Scirocco R being one currently at 340 (rolling road ) & going for stage 2 clutch + remap tomorrow that scares me witless with the torque available :evil: not really a weekend classic though & that's what the ///Ms are fast becoming
The ///Ms are a car of great character though that the fast VAGs can't match & especially capable in & out of the bends but as mentioned there are many alternatives for similar money that would rattle a ///M quite easily
My son's current modified Scirocco R being one
currently at 340 (rolling road ) & going for stage 2 clutch + remap tomorrow that scares me witless with the torque available :evil: not really a weekend classic though & that's what the ///Ms are fast becomingI agree with what's been said above; Its a 10+ year old car now and so wont compete with the new Turbo generation but to be honest its a fast fun 2 seater with a good old manual gearbox. I love the 'scruff of the neck' handling, noise and rawness of the whole experience. New cars can be boring, great off the lights but thats about it.
I cant think of anything right now i'd swap it for, i think thats the charm of these cars. No one apart from Porsche i guess, comes anywhere close though i do like the idea of a 718 boxster s with a remap :evil: (a little out of my price range right now :? ).
I cant think of anything right now i'd swap it for, i think thats the charm of these cars. No one apart from Porsche i guess, comes anywhere close though i do like the idea of a 718 boxster s with a remap :evil: (a little out of my price range right now :? ).
Z4M is quick enough and looks great. An Astra that's been modified or fresh from the factory may be quick or even quicker but it looks garbage and feels like it's made from the cheapest materials Vauxhall can find.
I know what I would rather have and it's not an Astra! It's about the full package a Z4M would provide more enjoyment in the long run.
Sorry to any Astra owners by the way I am not a fan.
I know what I would rather have and it's not an Astra! It's about the full package a Z4M would provide more enjoyment in the long run.
Sorry to any Astra owners by the way I am not a fan.
philip27 said:
maybe i missed that bit but i don't think anyone was saying they'd rather have an ST, astra or the likes, mere saying that they're performance ( from these type of hot hatches) isn't far behind, my ownership experience of the ST isn't compatible to owning my Z4, but its a very capable little hot hatch!
Ewazix said:
I was reading in autocar about the new Golf GTI Clubsport S. 306 hp. Around 32k. Ring time of 7 mins 49 secs. That 2 second slower than 911 Turbo (according to https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/ number 68). That's insane?? It shows how far the tech has come. I would love to know what component makes the golf go round so quick? Its certainly not power, could a modded Z beat that with the same driver and KW clubsports, BBK, Reacros, all the other mods? If not why not?
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-golf-gti-clubsport-s-smashes-n%C3%BCrburgring-record
So no the Z4M/M3 are not really really quick by todays standards. But its the experience that would be interesting to measure.
Z4M-2006 said:
Cretins. On PH? Never!
I've had mine 3 years and I still find it pretty quick. In fact, on a twisty road I can't see you'd ever need more-it's got more than enough power to get you in plenty of good old fashioned trouble and will pull beyond an indicated 170
tbh, I'd happily sacrifice a whole heap of power simply to avoid being blighted by some lifeless electric steering setup or a power delivery that tails of after 5.5-6k.
beanie said:Z4M-2006 said:
Cretins. On PH? Never!
I've had mine 3 years and I still find it pretty quick. In fact, on a twisty road I can't see you'd ever need more-it's got more than enough power to get you in plenty of good old fashioned trouble and will pull beyond an indicated 170
tbh, I'd happily sacrifice a whole heap of power simply to avoid being blighted by some lifeless electric steering setup or a power delivery that tails of after 5.5-6k.
Amen
beanie said:Z4M-2006 said:
Cretins. On PH? Never!
I've had mine 3 years and I still find it pretty quick. In fact, on a twisty road I can't see you'd ever need more-it's got more than enough power to get you in plenty of good old fashioned trouble and will pull beyond an indicated 170
tbh, I'd happily sacrifice a whole heap of power simply to avoid being blighted by some lifeless electric steering setup or a power delivery that tails of after 5.5-6k.
Can't remember a time recently when I thought "my car is too slow" on some A/B roads. The track is a different matter..
