Not happy with handling

L

Lofty

Member
Hi guys,

I have standard suspension and oem csl wheels. The fronts have 225, rear 265, new Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

I'm really not happy with the steering - it's just seems too light, and doesn't give any confidence when turning in. I'd like it to be a bit sharper on turn in and weight up some more. I've tried dropping the front pressure a bit but there was little difference felt.
The car also seems to break traction (or turn the light on at least) far too easily - when not applying that much hoof.

What can you guys recommend to help things?

I will probably have time to get the alignment checked / adjusted soon, but I wasn't sure how much adjustment is available on these cars as standard without fitting new parts. Is castor adjustable?

With the occasional throttle pogo-ing and occasionally recalcitrant gear change, it's not the most fun to drive. It's horrible to say it but my 320d estate is a keener steer at the moment!
 
loads can done to this car chassis wise, the worlds your oyster... the end result can be quite literally incredible.
 
How old are the tyres?

Ever had a full geo set up?

The suspension is poor as standard, the spring rates are all Wrong, a set of coilies will give the car better poise,behaviour and turn in.. Camber set up can be used to improve front grip too..

As for rear grip...

I can't think what would be causing lack of it..
How hard are you driving the car?
Does the traction control actually impede very early? Could be sensor, reluctor ring issue.
 
A proper 4 wheel geometry from someone that knows their onions will make a huge difference. I can't recommend Center Gravity highly enough - they will listen to what you like and don't like about the car, road test it with you and then find optimal geo settings. It'll likely be several hundred pounds but will be money well spent IMHO.
 
For me switching from an Elise to the then standard Z4MC was a big let down in the steering/handling department.

However a few simple alterations can improve the car a lot, must do mods include (IMHO):
- Uprated springs (e.g. Eibach Pro kit)
- RTAB limiter kit
- Vibra Tech engine mounts
- Decent Geo

Many more and higher level modifications can be done with matching results but the above list is quite cheap (few hundred quid) and transformed my car from being a bit annoying to very very enjoyable to drive.
 
I've not driven an Elise but from what I understand you'll never be able to replicate anything close to it with the Z4M platform.

I personally find the handling just fine, albeit understeery but I mostly put that down to my bad driving technique. All mods mentioned above should improve things though.

Oh and caster is NOT adjustable on our cars from stock but you can buy aftermarket camber/caster plates which offer adjustment. Example: http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=848/CA=97
 
Easiest cure for light steering is wider tires. Careful what you start modding, that bug bites real hard.. :oops:
 
I think you should bite the bullet and change the fronts to 235/35/19. I ran my car on the 265/30/19 and 225 tyres for a short time and didn't like the balance at all. Putting 235's on the front sorted it out immediately. It's a cheaper option than any of the suggestions above too.
 
Get your front trailing arm bushes and rtab checked and changed (rtab limiter is a great mod).

Geo will change the feel completely, oem set up is really understeery. Have a search, loads of set ups on this forum.

Then move to springs, dampers etc etc if still not happy.

Also 18s tend to be more forgiving and grippy over the UK roads as you can run a thicker tyre.
 
On a standard car fresh bushings and a custom geometry really sharpened up the 'pointyness' of the steering and dialled out some of the safe under steer on my car. Worth a check of the settings with the right ballast in place and half a tank of fuel.

As standard they are set up to be safe and forgiving.
 
Lofty, how long have you had your Z4MC? I identified all the problems that you've described before I bought my car and it was my intention from the outset to make suspension changes as soon as I could after buying the car. I've fitted AC Schnitzer Racing suspension (adjustable bump and rebound), StrongStrut strut-brace, Turner RTAB limiter kit, H&R ARBs and 10mm wheel spacers all round. I run with zero toe at the front and reduced -ve camber at the rear. Properly set up, my car is superb on our A&B roads and with different settings great on track too. Personally, I wouldn't want a Z4MC unless the suspension is upgraded and the potential of the car is unlocked by making these changes.

Fitting VibraTechics engine mounts will great improve the gear shifting problem and it will also improve the handling of the car, almost like an additional suspension upgrade, because it stops the engine from moving around during cornering, which makes the car far more stable. :thumbsup:
 
Hahahahaha

Oh man I sooooooooo feel your pain!!

I had this when I first bought mine
High speed straight into a wtf handling at corner with steering feeling light and as if lifting under acceleration

Sooooooooo,
I cured it:)
New 19s csl reps now OEM
H&R ARBs
And engine strut brace

Then as I wanted it lower, H&R lowering springs
Now I'm happy at high speed with one hand on wheel and other on stick and a big grin:)
 
Hi guys thanks for the replies.

A friend with an E92 M3 has a spare set of 19s with a wider front tyre so I may be able to try them out temporarily.
Out of interest how do these RTAB limiters help?

Unlikely to throw many mods at this car.....I did it for years with previous cars, switching diffs, bushes, coil overs, arms, engines, turbos, etc! Not sure I want to go down that route, already done too much on the Lotus!
 
Yes try the correct csl size combination, so 235/35 and 265/30.
Traction issues with a brand new set of mpss suggests rtabs could be goosed. Have them checked and if replacing I'd advise adding limiters as this will make the car feel more stable in corners (they stop the bush deforming so much which can create unwanted toe at high loads).
As said, get your geo properly checked.
 
Hi guys, been a bit busy recently to get back on the forums, but had the car on track recently to get a feel for the handling before making any changes.

First thing I noticed on the warm up lap was that the dsc was rendered completely useless. It cut all the power at the slightest hint of a corner. I figured it was to do with adjusted tyre pressures and forgetting to reset the system. So I pulled straight in, followed the reset procedure (or thought I had) and tried again. No use - throttle restricted again.
So I just switched it off and carried on.
Tried resetting again later in the day when track was wet but still no joy. Maybe I've done it wrong, but would be interested to hear if anyone is able to use their dsc on track at all.

By that stage I'd confirmed the std brakes are not up to much at all, and I had to be careful with them all day, and discovered a lot of body roll which makes quick direction changes a little unsettling.

However the strangest thing was the action of the brakes with a little steering angle. It seemed as if there was still some portion of dsc or ebd acting with dsc off and it somehow resisted turn in. One of the instructors said he had found the same characteristic on similar bmws. So no trail braking.

Other than that it was pretty good fun. I reckon once I beef up the brakes and pedal feel a little it should make heel and toeing a bit more consistent too.

Once it got going it had pretty good straight line pace too.

So discs/pads first on the list (or maybe an AP Racing kit if anyone is selling one!)
 
Pretty much my experience too.
Only time the DSC was of any use was on wet Nurburgring Nordschleife, otherwise utter useless.
Recognize that weird 'brake-stability' thing too.
 
DSC is too sensitive on the track. It's very intrusive and quickly cooks the brakes. I managed three siting laps with it switched on on my first track day after buying the Zed and that left the pads smoking. I'd recommend switching it off wet or dry (on the track) and driving to the conditions and your abilities.
The ///M inherently understeers, but pulling the camber pins, adjusting toe and fitting sticky rubber will reduce that without great expense. Thereafter, RTAB limiters, thicker ARBs and VT engine mounts are the most cost efficient way to make further handling gains.
Ultimately, it's never going to handle like your Lotus - I've spent years trying to make my ///M handle like my 600kg Westfield and learned that the expensive way! The Zed has a very capable chassis though, and the route to making the most of it is now reasonably well trodden...
 
To be honest I didn't find understeer to be much of a problem, even with my 225 width fronts.
Once the nose was in, it seemed to be quite well behaved and just had to be patient with the throttle (when being sensible!)
Sport mode was horrible though - really jerky throttle response which could upset front/rear pitch mid corner.

I ran 31 f / 32 r tyre pressures when hot, as recommended by a racing buddy (sometimes 1 or 2 higher) and this seemed to suit the super sports.
 
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