MK03 Z4 w/Digital DSP Carver setup. Aftermarket install

[achtunge85]

Seeking knowledgeable advice and/or opinions!

Let me first start by saying hello. I've been lurking many BMW forums for a while. I've had the Z for quite sometime but haven't really had the need to post anything about it. It's been great. Not one complaint honestly.
I am posting to get positive/contructive feedback on a current project. I’ve searched and search the web and this forum and it appears no one had successfully tackled it with the DSP option so this is a learning post and an information post. I will post up photos as I go along but I want to make sure everything is working correctly before the final install takes place(including photos)
2003 Z4 3.0i E85 (with a few upgrades) garage queen. Hasn’t had much daily action.
While my E60 takes up most of my time and experience I also own an E46 and have owned about 4 other E46's.
I have all the engineering and dealer tools to Program/Retrofit/Individualize a BMW. I’m familiar with many control units and modules in the newer cars but not really the older. This E85 has DSP with Digital output unlike newer Z’s with Analog. This is the same technology used in the older 5ers and 7ers.
I have extensive knowledge of BMW's overall and had some stereo experience but not so much with sophisticated electronics. This is where I am hoping to get some advice.
First I have a DSP Top HiFi sound system in the Z4. Sounds great. I made an AUX cable some time ago using the schema from TIS utilizing 2) .22uf caps & 1) 300ohm resistor plugged into pin 3,4,10 on the back of the radio and worked great no issues. A friend decided he wanted to do the same so I decided to give him mine and just bought one from my BMW dealer for $28. I recall that If I did not install the caps and the resistor it would not have worked because I tried that first so I decided to just go the easy route and buy one.
So now I’ve decided to use both this Z4 and my GSXR as my daily drivers and get rid of my E60(maybe). Recently my wife and I decided to drive to far places and get lost and visit little hole in the wall places. We love it. However, sometimes I need a way out lol. And I’ve been meaning to do this project for a long time but things come up here and there. So I have a double-din navi and have a lot of experience updating the HDD in this unit and so forth. I have several of these units. So I’ve decided to do a retrofit as I did with the E46. However we know that the E46 doesn’t have DSP.

So I installed everything in the Z4 to test. Everything works great. I updated the harddrive on the unit. I just do not get sound! As some of you may know the DSP amp in the boot doesn’t get any signal coming from the head unit. I don’t think its power related. I think it has to do with the input coming from the stereo. I have tested the stereo with other speakers and the channels work fine.
This is what I can tell you about the wiring harness for the original unit. The following wires are present in addition to the European style fakra connector for the FM stereo

FR+/FR-
FL+/FL-
12v Contant
12v ACC
12V Antenna
Ground
Illumination
I-Bus
Phone Mute/Speed Signal
I know there is are several Digital DSP converters available but I’m not sure if I want to go this route or if it would even work .I have plenty of pre-amps on the navigation unit so I decided to cut some RCA jacks up plug them into the pre-amps and then wire them to the harness. This didn’t work either. Therefore using any RCA pre-amp (front output/subwoofer output) or Front/Rear speaker leads did not work.

I see all kinds of talk/rumors that with DSP in order to play iPod etc you need a DSP converter such as a DICE. While I know this is not true at all. If we go back to the AUX connection we only needed 2 capacitors and one resistor to make the radio recognize AUX it did not need any “Digital Converter” etc etc as so many claim. Basically a R+ & L+ bridged together and a ground right?

Ok so now on the WDS schema I see 0.75 on each of the leads coming from the radio which are for FR+/FR-
FL+/FL-
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg/sp/SP0000018916.svg?m=e8385 (if you need to enlarge/reduce it CNTRL+ -)

The reason I am not so convinced it is power is here: http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zinfo/BAU0398SFB002651201.htm

With DSP a lot of the stuff takes place at the amp. So I am wondering if these are something on the radio going to the amp first to let the amp know to accept the signal just as the AUX cable does. If I have to solder something inline to the harness I will do that just not so sure on what exactly I have to solder first.
So when I see something like for example on F50 here
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zinfo/BAU0398SFB002651201.htm

30<50
2.5
RT/GE

I know the RT/GE is the color code of the wire but what are the other numbers? Are they max loads? Fused? Am I confused because of lack of knowledge in the “electrical” world?

I know I could just extend all the cables and stack my original radio with the aftermarket to keep the DSP brain in-tact but I really do not feel like doing that.

On the back of my radio I have the little Fakra which I believe from all my other Bimmers and experience is the antenna. However, on the amp I have the coaxial connector which I believe is where my problem comes in. That’s why I’m thinking something like the DICE, Blitzsafe or some other DSP adapter would be doable. I just want to be able to get the digital signals to my amp because I know it powers all speakers and I can use either the pre-amps or speaker leads from my navigation unit.
Any comments advice or suggestions?
Sorry for the long post but I think most of it is essential for you to understand and make guesses or draw conclusions. I refuse to be beat at this. LOL

 

[Mangozac]

I don't understand what you're trying to do here
I can answer two of your questions though:

An aux input is an aux input - you can connect almost any line level audio source to it; ipod, generic mp3 player, whatever. You need a Dice/Dension/Intravee unit if you want to connect an iPod so that you can control it and see track information through the stock radio.

I can't say for certain, but I'd bet that the 2.5 in the wire code example you gave is the cross sectional area of the wire (so in this case 2.5 square millimetres, which makes sense since that circuit is protected by a 30A fuse). The top line I think is simply an identifying label.

 

[achtunge85]

I added an aux input before... about 5 years ago. I completely understand this as I've had an E60 since the day they came out. The electronics therein are far more complex and superior to a Z4 although they have the same exact engine setup 3.0 M54. I know what the Dice or Intravee does. have no use for it besides to hack it apart to play with it.
I am trying to understand the digital DSP without needing to hookup my original radio inline with the aftermarket.
What do you mean by cross sectional area? Here in the U.S. we use gauged wire if that's what you're referring to.
Thanks for the reply though.
Anyone?

 

[Mangozac]

What do you mean by cross sectional area? Here in the U.S. we use gauged wire if that's what you're referring to.

Yeah cross sectional area is the metric equivalent of AWG (American Wire Gauge obviously being a US only thing). here's a conversion table.

So you're trying to connect an aftermarket head unit to the existing DSP amplifier system?

 

[RichardP]

The DSP amp needs iBus messages from the factory radio to control it, without the factory radio you'll have a hard time using it.

The DSP amp is an 'intelligent' device, it's not just an amplifier, it controls all the balance, fader, tone, volume and on/off settings as well as the options on the DSP menu, all via iBus commands.

By far the easiest thing to do it take it out and replace it with an after market amp.

 

[achtunge85]

I'm pretty sure that the crossovers and so forth are in the DSP amp itself. Therefore If what you say is true I will have full range on all speakers in the car. If this is the case it is pointless unless I were to take out amp and speakers since everything is perfectly matched. I would have to buy all 10 speakers (subs, mids, highs with crossovers etc) and run all new wires.

I know I can just run the OE radio inline with the new one by extending the wires and then tuck it away. I've already made a bezel and modified airduct I just have not yet cut the vents until its all worked out.

I know there is a DSP processor inside and this radio is more like a small computer.
The amp gets it signal from the coaxial cable I thought. And if I were to convert it over to analog I would have thought I could somehow be able to manipulate the input coming from an aftermarket radio to control the amp. It all seems VERY simple yet not so.

If I were to upgrade everything in the car then none of this would be an issue.

ANYONE want to buy a complete DSP system with the Aux connector? lol

 

[the_funkhouse]

Hello. This is a very old post, but did you ever find a solution?
I am trying to do a similar thing and hitting the same problems.

 

[frozenwaffles]

Hello. This is a very old post, but did you ever find a solution?
I am trying to do a similar thing and hitting the same problems.

hi funkhouse, the solution is to replace the amp and put in an aftermarket amp like the Helix V Eight DSP amp and a sub amp. i just did this and its awesome!