family rate inspection 2
- Thread starter den5ap
- Start date
lol. nah it really was a family rate. my bro-in-law is the M specialist senior tech at his work so sorted me out. its one of the main reasons i opted for such an expensive to maintain car....its not that expensive to maintain!
just a quick point he did do my valve cleances e.t.c. but did advise me that i should seriously think about not doing them unless i have vanos noises as he has said from what he's seen, loads of problems arise after they have been done (not by him)e.g. the shims popping out when there were no probs before. i told him to do them anyway and as well as he could but i thought that was quite interesting. maybe people dont know how to do them properly(bmw techs included)
just a quick point he did do my valve cleances e.t.c. but did advise me that i should seriously think about not doing them unless i have vanos noises as he has said from what he's seen, loads of problems arise after they have been done (not by him)e.g. the shims popping out when there were no probs before. i told him to do them anyway and as well as he could but i thought that was quite interesting. maybe people dont know how to do them properly(bmw techs included)
Liverpool
den5ap said:lol. nah it really was a family rate. my bro-in-law is the M specialist senior tech at his work so sorted me out.
Will they do a forum rate?
I read this as unless you're having VANOS issues then they won't even measure them.
Whilst the BMW service instructions state that if they're within the listed tolerances (loose or tight) then don't change them, how would a tech (even a Master ///M Tech) know this for certain unless they measure them?
You can't tell by the noise if they're good or bad, as one engine/VANOS will sound noisier than another with identical clearances - and the tighter they get the quieter they get. So we're basically saying if they're dangerously tight, then they'd never change them, as they'd be quiet.
You don't have to remove the shims to measure the clearances, only if you need to swap out any. If they're fine, you can record the clearances and close back up. The only time you're likely to 'disturb' a shim is when you need to swap one out. If the BMW techs are saying they can't do this without risking catastrophic engine damage, then either there's an issue with the level of training and we should be worried, or an issue with the method used to keep the shims in place and we should still be worried.
If they insist that they 'sound' right and don't need adjusting, then they should lob £400 off the price of an Inspection (which they won't). Plus, as the servicing has not been carried out to BMW's own servicing parameters, you'd likely to have no comeback in the event of a warranty claim - and I'd assume you'd have a battle with the dealer for recompense :roll:
Whilst the BMW service instructions state that if they're within the listed tolerances (loose or tight) then don't change them, how would a tech (even a Master ///M Tech) know this for certain unless they measure them?
You can't tell by the noise if they're good or bad, as one engine/VANOS will sound noisier than another with identical clearances - and the tighter they get the quieter they get. So we're basically saying if they're dangerously tight, then they'd never change them, as they'd be quiet.
You don't have to remove the shims to measure the clearances, only if you need to swap out any. If they're fine, you can record the clearances and close back up. The only time you're likely to 'disturb' a shim is when you need to swap one out. If the BMW techs are saying they can't do this without risking catastrophic engine damage, then either there's an issue with the level of training and we should be worried, or an issue with the method used to keep the shims in place and we should still be worried.
If they insist that they 'sound' right and don't need adjusting, then they should lob £400 off the price of an Inspection (which they won't). Plus, as the servicing has not been carried out to BMW's own servicing parameters, you'd likely to have no comeback in the event of a warranty claim - and I'd assume you'd have a battle with the dealer for recompense :roll:
pilchardthecat
Active member
I've heard this "if it sounds ok don't check them" argument before, and since i had my inspection 2 last week i specifically asked the dealer what the situation was, as i'd heard that some dealers don't check them if they sound ok
I was told with complete certainty that "They have to - each one must be measured and compared with the tolerances. They have to do it"
If the gap is within tolerances they don't do anything, if it's out, they change the shims. Listening to the engine and then electing not to even check them is contrary to the BMW service schedule.
Can you let me know which garage your family member works at so i can make a note to avoid it in the future?
The M tech wrote me a list of all the measurements, including before/after for the ones he changed. Personally i'd rather pay a grand and have it done properly.
I was told with complete certainty that "They have to - each one must be measured and compared with the tolerances. They have to do it"
If the gap is within tolerances they don't do anything, if it's out, they change the shims. Listening to the engine and then electing not to even check them is contrary to the BMW service schedule.
Can you let me know which garage your family member works at so i can make a note to avoid it in the future?
The M tech wrote me a list of all the measurements, including before/after for the ones he changed. Personally i'd rather pay a grand and have it done properly.
maybe i didnt make it clear. my bro-in-law always does it exactly as it should be for customers, but having worked in numerous dealerships around the country in the 13years of being a BMW technician (he's sitting his masters next month) this was just something he talked to me about. his personnal view was to think about not doing them but i told him to stick with the schedule.
i think its completely wrong for the job to not be done properly if your paying for something. i chose to have them done as the designers of the engine are going to be much more qualified and certainly know more about what is best for the engine than a mechanic(and to keep my FBMWSH). his point about things going wrong is however a point based on lots of experience. he did say that he has heard of mechanics cutting corners and not sticking strictly to the schedule(these people tend to not get very far). this however didnt really suprise me. i guess you are blindly trusting a mechanic (if you dont know them) to do a good job but in all industries across the world there are people that will take the piss
i think its completely wrong for the job to not be done properly if your paying for something. i chose to have them done as the designers of the engine are going to be much more qualified and certainly know more about what is best for the engine than a mechanic(and to keep my FBMWSH). his point about things going wrong is however a point based on lots of experience. he did say that he has heard of mechanics cutting corners and not sticking strictly to the schedule(these people tend to not get very far). this however didnt really suprise me. i guess you are blindly trusting a mechanic (if you dont know them) to do a good job but in all industries across the world there are people that will take the piss
I had oil service today at Batemans in the Lakes and as usual the service was excellent.
I asked the 'M' tech mechanic about tappets and it seems that the confusion stems from the fact that BMW set a range of tolerances for the tappets so that they can be a little 'loose' when measured but still within these tolerances, in those circumstances they would prefer to leave alone if the car is running well. If the tappet measurement falls outside the BMW range then they will always reshim. They are instucted to always measure them to check the tolerance in any event.
I asked the 'M' tech mechanic about tappets and it seems that the confusion stems from the fact that BMW set a range of tolerances for the tappets so that they can be a little 'loose' when measured but still within these tolerances, in those circumstances they would prefer to leave alone if the car is running well. If the tappet measurement falls outside the BMW range then they will always reshim. They are instucted to always measure them to check the tolerance in any event.