Exdos - Your next mission should you decide to accept it

[gwatson]

John, as a man in the know and with some time to fiddle, I challenge you to find a way to improve the throttle pedal feel

One of my biggest annoyances with the Z4M is how artificial the pedal feels, there seems to be no resistance in it, it feels like one of those simulators you play at the arcade. My previous cars including S2000, M3, Westfield and more, were all cable operated, so refreshing in todays world, non of this fly-by wire nonsense that my daily has. I'll make a bold statement and say I'd rather have a physical throttle cable over hydraulic steering. It's just another step of removing the driver from the experience, I want to open the six butterfly's on the throttle body with my right foot, not a motor

Now I know there is only so much that can be done with fly by wire, but something which I think will help would be to cushion the top of the pedal so when you stamp on the pedal it doesn't clunk as it hits the plastic surround at the back, that's part of the problem.

But after looking at the pedal last night, I think it would be possible to add a spring on the rod coming from the back of the pedal. What's your thoughts on this? Getting the right tension could be difficult I guess.

Maybe I'm the only one who this annoys

Cheers

Graeme

 

[StevenH72]

I've never noticed it (but then I have't owned many performance oriented cars either), will be interesting to hear what others say.

 

[exdos]

John, as a man in the know and with some time to fiddle, I challenge you to find a way to improve the throttle pedal feel

One of my biggest annoyances with the Z4M is how artificial the pedal feels, there seems to be no resistance in it, it feels like one of those simulators you play at the arcade. My previous cars including S2000, M3, Westfield and more, were all cable operated, so refreshing in todays world, non of this fly-by wire nonsense that my daily has. I'll make a bold statement and say I'd rather have a physical throttle cable over hydraulic steering. It's just another step of removing the driver from the experience, I want to open the six butterfly's on the throttle body with my right foot, not a motor

Now I know there is only so much that can be done with fly by wire, but something which I think will help would be to cushion the top of the pedal so when you stamp on the pedal it doesn't clunk as it hits the plastic surround at the back, that's part of the problem.

But after looking at the pedal last night, I think it would be possible to add a spring on the rod coming from the back of the pedal. What's your thoughts on this? Getting the right tension could be difficult I guess.

Maybe I'm the only one who this annoys

Cheers

Graeme

Graeme,

Personally, I don't have a problem with the drive by wire systems on my Z4MC. What I don't like about the pedals on the Z4M is the fact that the accelerator pedal is too low relative to the brake pedal, which makes it difficult to heel-toe. To this end, I've fitted some AC Schnitzer pedals (copies) see here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=47387&p=686727&hilit=heel+and+toe+exdos#p686727 These sort that problem.

I don't know why you would want to stamp on the accelerator, even one with a throttle cable, because the maximum airflow at less than max revs can be achieved without being at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) so you have the time (a few milliseconds) to place your foot on the accelerator pedal and depress the pedal without losing acceleration. This also applies to the Sport Mode mapping: you still need to fully depress the accelerator pedal to get WOT, so I don't see any advantage in using it. All SM does is give you more throttle opening than you expect in the earlier stages of accelerator pedal travel, which makes you think that the car is much quicker and IMO, that takes away the finesse of using your right foot.

I find that to get the best feel from the pedals, particularly the accelerator, it's essential to get the driving seat positioned so that the heel of your right foot is right at the base of the accelerator pedal with the sole of your shoe fully flat on the pedal; this way, you push the accelerator pedal with the toe end of the foot around a fulcrum at your heel. When my foot is on the accelerator pedal in this way, I find there's enough spring pressure in the accelerator unit to give the necessary accelerator pedal feel. I find that using the tilt of the front part of the seat (front seat switch tipped up/down) adjusts my foot position to the ideal for this. Likewise, when my foot is in this position, I find it easy to rotate my foot on the heel to brake and to heel-toe. Also, with your heel on the floor, you are operating the accelerator pedal with your foot and not with the whole of your right leg, so you don't need a strong spring in the accelerator for 'feel".

I suggest you try these suggestions.

 

[Machine monkey]

Exdos going back to the pedals i followed your advice and brought similar if not the same ones. I still find it diicult to heal and toe when not in sport mode ( 3.0l not an M ) especially after the accident with my legs. I am when my workshop is up and running going to make some shims effectively a plate about 3-4mm thick to fit betwine the pedal and pedal cover. Shall i make an extra one for you are are you happy how you are?

 

[gwatson]

John,

I noticed that thread last night when searching online for a solution. The heel and toe is a different issue and also very annoying, especially with the over servo'd brakes, but I want to get the basics sorted first. Besides, unless the thickness of the (fake) ACSthe pedal plates are different, or shimmed I fail to see how it helps. I also think the lack of resistance in throttle is why these cars are so easy to kangeroo, you can't actually feel what your input is doing. Horrible. I guess I'll get used to it, I'll need to as all modern cars have it. CDV is being removed today so based on previous experience that will help when pulling away.

I'll try adjusting my foot position and see if that helps. I agree on one thing, Sports mode is a waste of time, I hate how you lose the linear-ness of travel vs throttle.

 

[exdos]

Exdos going back to the pedals i followed your advice and brought similar if not the same ones. I still find it diicult to heal and toe when not in sport mode ( 3.0l not an M ) especially after the accident with my legs. I am when my workshop is up and running going to make some shims effectively a plate about 3-4mm thick to fit betwine the pedal and pedal cover. Shall i make an extra one for you are are you happy how you are?

Monkey,

I find that the ACS covers do the trick for me, perhaps because I've been using this solution for over 10years now, so I've already adjusted to the heel-toe method. I will follow your thread on what you make though. I'm sure that you will be able to come up with a great solution.

 

[gwatson]

Where did you guys buy these? Quick look on ebay draws a surprising blank, unless I want to import from Hong Kong.

Let me know how you get on with the shims Machine Monkey.

 

[gwatson]

Found these... worried what the fitment might be like though. Still need to be shimmed though as the throttle pedal doesn't look any thicker.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-BLK-M...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a863ecf0e

 

[exdos]

John,

I noticed that thread last night when searching online for a solution. The heel and toe is a different issue and also very annoying, especially with the over servo'd brakes, but I want to get the basics sorted first. Besides, unless the thickness of the (fake) ACSthe pedal plates are different, or shimmed I fail to see how it helps. I also think the lack of resistance in throttle is why these cars are so easy to kangeroo, you can't actually feel what your input is doing. Horrible. I guess I'll get used to it, I'll need to as all modern cars have it. CDV is being removed today so based on previous experience that will help when pulling away.

I'll try adjusting my foot position and see if that helps. I agree on one thing, Sports mode is a waste of time, I hate how you lose the linear-ness of travel vs throttle.

Graeme,

I do understand the problem that you've identified and described because I have other vehicles with accelerator pedals which I don't like, which require the use of the whole leg from the hip joint to depress. IMO there's absolutely no accelerator "feel" in those systems and they would be tiring to use on a car like the Z4M. However, I don't think the solution lies with making the accelerator pedal stiffer to depress.

If you follow my suggestions, I think you'll eventually see that the Z4M's accelerator pedal is actually a very good ergonomic design once it's at the same level as the other pedals and that once the whole of the sole of your shoe sits flat on the accelerator pedal the spring pressure in the accelerator pedal unit is just about spot-on for feedback to your toes when the heel is the fulcrum.

 

[exdos]

Found these... worried what the fitment might be like though. Still need to be shimmed though as the throttle pedal doesn't look any thicker.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-BLK-M...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a863ecf0e

Those would do the job.

The way that these work is that the clutch and brake pedal covers replace the OEM rubber covers, so those pedals remain at the same height, BUT the accelerator pedal cover sits ON TOP of the OEM accelerator pedal and therefore it raises the height of the accelerator pedal by the thickness of the cover RELATIVE TO the clutch and brake pedals. My photo shows this: the gap under the ruler is minimal to the accelerator pedal when the ruler is placed flat on the brake pedal. Try that with the OEM pedals.

 

[gwatson]

With you now! That makes more sense

I remember doing this years ago and it a pig of a job.

 

[exdos]

With you now! That makes more sense

I remember doing this years ago and it a pig of a job.

It is a pig to do, but here's a trick I devised for this last time. When fitting the small nuts and washers at the back of the pedals, spray some contact adhesive onto the nut and washer to line them up and then stick them onto the end of your index finger, so that you can offer them both onto the end of the bolt to thread them on. It works a treat! 8)

 

[gwatson]

Haha... not superglue then

 

[kerstien]

Just ordered a set of these as i agree the accelerator pedal needs to be raised. went for the black ones with the M logo that are identical in design to teh ac ones. Thanks for the link John

kerstien

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Just ordered a set of these as i agree the accelerator pedal needs to be raised. went for the black ones with the M logo that are identical in design to teh ac ones. Thanks for the link John

kerstien

Couldn't see the black ones with the ///M logo, have you a link please kerstien?

 

[kerstien]

Just ordered a set of these as i agree the accelerator pedal needs to be raised. went for the black ones with the M logo that are identical in design to teh ac ones. Thanks for the link John

kerstien

Couldn't see the black ones with the ///M logo, have you a link please kerstien?

Yes sure. they are from the same supplier john bought his AC ones. They also have teh AC ones in black should you prefer. here you go

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281172145098?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

kerstien

 

[gwatson]

Thanks for the link. Just ordered a black ACS set

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Just ordered a set of these as i agree the accelerator pedal needs to be raised. went for the black ones with the M logo that are identical in design to teh ac ones. Thanks for the link John

kerstien

Couldn't see the black ones with the ///M logo, have you a link please kerstien?

Yes sure. they are from the same supplier john bought his AC ones. They also have teh AC ones in black should you prefer. here you go

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281172145098?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

kerstien

Cheers

 

[kerstien]

I received my pedals and am looking forward to Installing them. Funny thing is that when I placed then over the car pedals, the holes in the covers don't all fall within the pedal. It's like they are too large for the car pedals. Are yours the same John?

Thanks

Kerstien

 

[exdos]

I received my pedals and am looking forward to Installing them. Funny thing is that when I placed then over the car pedals, the holes in the covers don't all fall within the pedal. It's like they are too large for the car pedals. Are yours the same John?

Thanks

Kerstien

Exactly the same. What you need to do with the clutch and brake pedals is: remove the OEM rubber covers. Then for each ACS cover, insert a couple of the screws through the top 2 holes and just fasten the nuts on to them very loosely then place the cover onto the appropriate pedal so that the nuts lie on the underside of the pedal. When the cover is in place, put the other two screws through the holes in the cover, and fasten the nuts to them and then tighten them all up. No need to drill any holes. Job done.

For the accelerator pedal. I suggest that you place the cover onto the OEM pedal and position the cover so that the top holes are as high on the OEM pedal as possible but still able to drill a hole in the OEM pedal. Drill one hole at the top and then insert a screw and fasten the cover in place. Wrap some tape around the cover and pedal so that the cover is firmly in place, then use a Dremmel (or similar) to drill holes in the pedal for the other 3 screws, using the cover as the template guide whilst drilling. Putting the nuts onto the screws for the accelerator is very tricky, but I found that sticking a nut onto the end of my index finger with contact adhesive allowed me to feel for the end of the screw via the nut stuck on my finger.

Hope this helps.