Ethanol
- Thread starter blaZen
- Start date
I take it we don't have 10% ethanol here in the UK..Ethanol is a good idea, I just have a philosophical/moral problem with turning edible foodstuffs into fuel for automobiles. They're working on turning stalks/stems/other detritus into ethanol --100% for that! 8)
(oh, and I've had no trouble with 10% EtOH in my 3.0Si, but he was asking about //Ms)
(oh, and I've had no trouble with 10% EtOH in my 3.0Si, but he was asking about //Ms)
From what I understand, the trouble with ethanol type fuels is the storage. Petrol stations don't store it correctly. Large garages haven't so much of a problem as the turnover of fuel in their tanks is quite high, but smaller garages in quieter areas may have the fuel in their tanks for some time! If they are using older tanks, then sludge problems occur!
Bit more here: http://commerce.wi.gov/ERpdf/bst/ProgramLetters_PL/ER-BST-PL-EthanolMotorFuelStorageOverview.pdf
Basically, you could have all kinds of rubbish entering your fuel system!!!
Bit more here: http://commerce.wi.gov/ERpdf/bst/ProgramLetters_PL/ER-BST-PL-EthanolMotorFuelStorageOverview.pdf
Basically, you could have all kinds of rubbish entering your fuel system!!!
Ethanol is a result of the corn lobby and our "follow-the-money-trail" government. GA recently adopted this (I am hoping just for the summer gas) and the M is a little more hesitant to start and gets 10%-20% less MPG depending on how I drive. Ethanol uses more energy to produce than it generates, Ethanol is about half as potent as gas. Ethanol is also harder on some of the metal/rubber fuel lines/seals. E10 is supposed to contain up to 10% Ethanol but several people have found the Ethanol content to be greater than 10%.
We just went to SC/NC where 100% gas is still sold and could immediately tell a difference power and gas mileage wise.
BOO on Ethanol......... :thumbsdown:
We just went to SC/NC where 100% gas is still sold and could immediately tell a difference power and gas mileage wise.
BOO on Ethanol......... :thumbsdown:
I sent BMW this e-mail today:
Hello!
I have 3 questions concerning fuel in my BMW.
1) It is becoming increasingly difficult to find gasoline that is not labeled as containing "up to 10% ethanol". Can you tell me if there will be any adverse effect, either mechanically or in performance, using 10% ethanol fuel in my 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i?
2) If there are any performance, reliability, or service considerations involving this 10% ethanol fuel, does BMW recommend any type of fuel additive to be used with the ethanol fuels to alleviate these issues?
3) Does BMW plan to market flex-fuel vehicles in the 2009/2010 time frame that will be able to use ethanol (E85) fuel?
Thanks for your help.
This is their reply (notice they did not exactly address all the questions. I have since sent a follow-up asking more specifically about #2 above, but have not heard back yet.:
Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding our vehicles. We appreciate your interest in BMW.
Fuels containing up to and including 10% of ethanol will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materials or workmanship. Although, usage of such alcohol fuel blends may result in drivability, starting, and stalling problems due to reduced volatility and lower energy content of the fuel.
BMW does not produce flex-fuel vehicles, and use of E85 gasoline in our vehicles would cause service concerns which would not be covered by our warranty. We are sorry if this is disappointing information for you.
We are passionate about developing vehicles that use alternative energy sources. We are proud of our fleet of BMW Hydrogen 7 luxury sedans. These no-emissions, hydrogen-fuel vehicles are being driven by individuals who have a fundamental visionary approach and want to experience the future. They include company CEOs, public officials, scientists, and other opinion leaders from the areas of academia, culture and sports. The first U.S. drivers are Will Farrell, Jay Leno, and Terry Tamminen. We are using the Hydrogen 7 to educate and to garner support for a hydrogen infrastructure.
The BMW Group is also committed to research and development in the several areas of sustainable energy. We are a part of the Global Hybrid Cooperation, working with Mercedes Car Group of Daimler and General Motors in a partnership dedicated to developing hybrid technology. Additionally, ever-more efficient gasoline and diesel engines, as well as such exciting innovations as start-stop technology, and brake-energy regeneration showcase our commitment to producing efficient, environmentally-friendly, luxury sports vehicles.
Environmental Defense recently praised BMW for lowering carbon emissions. In a study that spanned 1990-2005, BMW led all auto manufacturers in the best fleet average fuel economy. BMW's fleet fuel economy increased 14.1 %, a 12.3 % reduction in emissions. The results of this survey showcases BMW's CleanEnergy Strategy; namely to explore all avenues possible towards building the most efficient, cleanest-running, and highest-performing luxury vehicles.
Public information on BMW Group's innovations and technology can be found on the BMW Group website, http://www.bmwgroup.com, by selecting "Research & Development." Please feel free to visit us there and also browse our other related websites: http://www.clubofpioneers.com and http://www.bmwcleanenergy.com.
If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW.
Sincerely,
Jen Edgin
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
Hello!
I have 3 questions concerning fuel in my BMW.
1) It is becoming increasingly difficult to find gasoline that is not labeled as containing "up to 10% ethanol". Can you tell me if there will be any adverse effect, either mechanically or in performance, using 10% ethanol fuel in my 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i?
2) If there are any performance, reliability, or service considerations involving this 10% ethanol fuel, does BMW recommend any type of fuel additive to be used with the ethanol fuels to alleviate these issues?
3) Does BMW plan to market flex-fuel vehicles in the 2009/2010 time frame that will be able to use ethanol (E85) fuel?
Thanks for your help.
This is their reply (notice they did not exactly address all the questions. I have since sent a follow-up asking more specifically about #2 above, but have not heard back yet.:
Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding our vehicles. We appreciate your interest in BMW.
Fuels containing up to and including 10% of ethanol will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materials or workmanship. Although, usage of such alcohol fuel blends may result in drivability, starting, and stalling problems due to reduced volatility and lower energy content of the fuel.
BMW does not produce flex-fuel vehicles, and use of E85 gasoline in our vehicles would cause service concerns which would not be covered by our warranty. We are sorry if this is disappointing information for you.
We are passionate about developing vehicles that use alternative energy sources. We are proud of our fleet of BMW Hydrogen 7 luxury sedans. These no-emissions, hydrogen-fuel vehicles are being driven by individuals who have a fundamental visionary approach and want to experience the future. They include company CEOs, public officials, scientists, and other opinion leaders from the areas of academia, culture and sports. The first U.S. drivers are Will Farrell, Jay Leno, and Terry Tamminen. We are using the Hydrogen 7 to educate and to garner support for a hydrogen infrastructure.
The BMW Group is also committed to research and development in the several areas of sustainable energy. We are a part of the Global Hybrid Cooperation, working with Mercedes Car Group of Daimler and General Motors in a partnership dedicated to developing hybrid technology. Additionally, ever-more efficient gasoline and diesel engines, as well as such exciting innovations as start-stop technology, and brake-energy regeneration showcase our commitment to producing efficient, environmentally-friendly, luxury sports vehicles.
Environmental Defense recently praised BMW for lowering carbon emissions. In a study that spanned 1990-2005, BMW led all auto manufacturers in the best fleet average fuel economy. BMW's fleet fuel economy increased 14.1 %, a 12.3 % reduction in emissions. The results of this survey showcases BMW's CleanEnergy Strategy; namely to explore all avenues possible towards building the most efficient, cleanest-running, and highest-performing luxury vehicles.
Public information on BMW Group's innovations and technology can be found on the BMW Group website, http://www.bmwgroup.com, by selecting "Research & Development." Please feel free to visit us there and also browse our other related websites: http://www.clubofpioneers.com and http://www.bmwcleanenergy.com.
If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW.
Sincerely,
Jen Edgin
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
Well, I just received the second e-mail reply.
Here was my follow up question:
Jen,
Thank you for the reply, although it did not really answer my question
#2.
Basically, I guess you are telling me I can expect "drivability,
starting, and stalling problems" when using 10% ethanol in my BMW, but
that it will not cause any serious mechanical issues that would void my
vehicle warranty. It also appears that BMW is pursuing hydrogen fuel
concepts, but will not be building "E85" vehicles, or vehicles that will
run well on 10% ethanol gasoline any time in the near future.
If that is the case, my question is still this:
Since I can expect problems using 10% ethanol, and since it is getting
more and more difficult, even impossible in some areas, to find gasoline
that does not contain at least some % of ethanol, then what (if
anything) can I do to re-gain the lost "volatility" and "energy content"
from ethanol-containing gasoline? Does BMW recommend any type of fuel
additive or any other modification that will allow me to regain the
proper level of performance expected of a BMW, and not experience the
problems noted above?
Thank you.
and here is the reply:
Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your inquiry.
I would recommend discussing your questions with your BMW center, as they are in the best position to assist you. Should you need it, you will find a complete listing of authorized centers, categorized by name, state, or zip code, on our website at http://www.bmwusa.com.
If you have any further comments or questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW.
Sincerely,
Jen Edgin
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
Here was my follow up question:
Jen,
Thank you for the reply, although it did not really answer my question
#2.
Basically, I guess you are telling me I can expect "drivability,
starting, and stalling problems" when using 10% ethanol in my BMW, but
that it will not cause any serious mechanical issues that would void my
vehicle warranty. It also appears that BMW is pursuing hydrogen fuel
concepts, but will not be building "E85" vehicles, or vehicles that will
run well on 10% ethanol gasoline any time in the near future.
If that is the case, my question is still this:
Since I can expect problems using 10% ethanol, and since it is getting
more and more difficult, even impossible in some areas, to find gasoline
that does not contain at least some % of ethanol, then what (if
anything) can I do to re-gain the lost "volatility" and "energy content"
from ethanol-containing gasoline? Does BMW recommend any type of fuel
additive or any other modification that will allow me to regain the
proper level of performance expected of a BMW, and not experience the
problems noted above?
Thank you.
and here is the reply:
Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your inquiry.
I would recommend discussing your questions with your BMW center, as they are in the best position to assist you. Should you need it, you will find a complete listing of authorized centers, categorized by name, state, or zip code, on our website at http://www.bmwusa.com.
If you have any further comments or questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW.
Sincerely,
Jen Edgin
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
I didn't really expect a straight answer, but I figured I'd see what I could get out of them anyway.
P.R. professionals are quite aware of the many legal traps they could fall into with the wrong wording.
Anyway, the upshot is, your BMW is probably going to run poorly on part-ethanol gasoline, so stay away from it as long as you can.
P.R. professionals are quite aware of the many legal traps they could fall into with the wrong wording.
Anyway, the upshot is, your BMW is probably going to run poorly on part-ethanol gasoline, so stay away from it as long as you can.
