Engine mounts (again)...questions

BMWZ4MC

Lifer
 Back in the sunshine
There have been various threads pertaining to replacing the Z4M engine mounts with VibraTech mounts, including some discussion about this in other threads (such as a recent CDV removal thread). Although the VibraTech mounts are sold individually by most suppliers, I realise that we need a pair of mounts for our cars.
However, RealOEM shows only one postion for the OEM part (part number 11812283798 - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DU92&mospid=49422&btnr=22_0064&hg=22&fg=05&hl=6).

I have two questions for those who have fitted the VibraTech mounts:

Firstly, do we need two of the same part number (I'm buying the competition mounts, so two of BMW362MX http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/bmw/z4/595/BMW362MX/front_engine_mount_)?

And the secondly, Beedub you mentioned previously that the engine mount frame bolts were a recall item and worth replacing when fitting the engine mounts (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48250&hilit=vibratech&start=15). Are these parts three and ten on the RealOEM diagram I've posted? If so, how many do we need of each and are they best sourced from BMW themselves?

Cheers
 
Hello,

Yes, if you are going to fit the Vibra-Technics mounts, you just need two mounts with the same part number. The VT units and, indeed, the original mounts I removed from the car, are identical for each side.

Cheapest place I found was Venom Motorsport. Delivery was quick, even though the chap I spoke to at Venom said they don't keep them as a stock item and order from VT instead.

http://www.venommotorsport.com/manu...egory=engine&product=Mounts&make=BMW&model=Z4

The bolts you have asked about are indeed parts 3 and 10 in the diagram.

You'll need six of number 3 and two of number 10. Four of the number 3s are used on the intake side of the engine. The other two number 3s go in the rear upper and lower holes of the exhaust side bracket. The two number 10s are slightly longer at 35mm and are for the front upper and lower holes (they are longer because in addition to securing the braket to the engine, they also secure the Vanos accumulator mount to the bracket).

I had a go at a 'how-to', which I hope might be of help:

http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=58419

There's a lot of info on other forums about the bolt problem - hope the links below might help:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1401966-Engine-Mount-Z4-M-Coupe

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635649

I should also mention that BMW couldn't supply the two 35mm 10.9 tensile strength bolts, so I just ordered the 8.8 bolts from BMW for the front of the exhaust side bracket. All the other six I fitted were BMW supplied 10.9 bolts and I used Nord-Lock washers with them.

Good luck with the job :thumbsup:
 
That's fantastic thanks :thumbsup:
I've ordered the competition mounts from Venom to add to the increasing stockpile of parts I have to fit when I'm back in the UK next spring. I think I'll order the bolts when I'm back as it will be easier to do in person than from 12,000 miles away!
 
you gotta love a parts hoard!!! lol!!! and you'll love the comp mounts.... not as compliant as the road ones however. Great purchase!!
 
Beedub said:
you gotta love a parts hoard!!! lol!!! and you'll love the comp mounts.... not as compliant as the road ones however. Great purchase!!
It's getting ridiculous... KW Clubsports, camber plates, RE rear top mounts, Turner RTAB limiter kit, H&R front and rear ARBs, a clutch stop and ACS pedals (to aid heel and toe), and now VT competition mounts. By the time I come home I hope to have a BBK too (probably Alcon) to which I'll add some additional cooling ducts. I'm planning to do all the spanner work myself, so I'm going to be busy for a while. I'm really looking forward to a summer of trackdays, especially if I can save enough for a supercharger by then :trampoline:
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Beedub said:
you gotta love a parts hoard!!! lol!!! and you'll love the comp mounts.... not as compliant as the road ones however. Great purchase!!
It's getting ridiculous... KW Clubsports, camber plates, RE rear top mounts, Turner RTAB limiter kit, H&R front and rear ARBs, and now VT competition mounts. By the time I come home I hope to have a BBK too (probably Alcon) to which I'll add some additional cooling ducts. I'm planning to do all the spanner work myself, so I'm going to be busy for a while. I'm really looking forward to a summer of trackdays, especially if I can save enough for a supercharger by then :trampoline:

V jealous :thumbsup:

Any exhaust plans?
 
Woots said:
V jealous :thumbsup:

Any exhaust plans?

I already have Remus backboxes and an aFe intake. I'm pretty happy with this combo as they sound awesome but still fall within trackday noise restrictions and aren't boomy on road trips. I'm expecting it to become a bit tiring to drive on poor roads as everything will be so stiff I'll feel and hear every undulation and bump!
 
top parts hoarding buddy.... you'll be so pleased once you bolt it all together....

i have some awesome parts in hoard and on route too.... S/c upgrade power kit sat in my garage, cooling upgrades and the biggy will be my xmas purchase, tillet carbon seats @ 4kg each, this is a huge saving really, also going to get a custom large bore exhaust built with with lots of resonators to keep it uber quite, my loud exhaust days are over :-)
and yes your choosen setup is going to lead to a very uncomfy road car...lol.... lots of vibrations, noise, and harshness soon to come your way!! But the feeling of connection over the stock setup is massive!! cant wait for you to get this rolling!!


byron
 
Now it's my turn to be jealous of your parts hoard! The seats look awesome - similar to a pair I have for my Westy (although I've only fitted one so far as it's a nightmare of a job) except yours are more than ten times the cost and I'm sure of much higher quality :thumbsup:
How much power will the SC upgrade yield?
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Now it's my turn to be jealous of your parts hoard! The seats look awesome - similar to a pair I have for my Westy (although I've only fitted one so far as it's a nightmare of a job) except yours are more than ten times the cost and I'm sure of much higher quality :thumbsup:
How much power will the SC upgrade yield?

excuse the mega delayed reply... the seats arent that much tbh??? around 600 quid each, im guessing selling the stockers will get much of that back??? could be wrong however, shame realy as i LOVE the stock seats, they look and feel fantastic but sadly dont hold you in place during real driving, if their was a way of keeping them and using a harness with them id definitely keep them in place... sadly i cant see a way....

on the power bump??? honestly i have no idea..... im guessing 10lb of boost will really wake up the s/c.... ill post up more as the build starts as i need to build a fuelling system to support the new boost... or will most likely order the radium fuel kit with AN lines and all the bells and whistles!! Either way this car is going no-where.... project car for life, at their current value a good one is a keeper!! Really looking forward to seeing yours come together, you have such a fun road ahead!!!

off topic.... nice to see Singer 911 using kw comps now too :-) we choose well it seems, :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: wonderful dampers...

http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/popup3.asp?pictureURL=http://images.pistonheads.com/nimg/28997/Copy%20of%20LALiveblog_160-L.jpg
 
Yeah, that's not too bad a price for the seats - I'd had a quick look at their website and clicked on this one almost at random:

https://www.tillett.co.uk/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=44&cat=B7+Racing+Car+Seat

At nearly 2k, it's a little pricey :D

I use this in my ///M: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/harness-pads-accessories/cg-lock-seatbelt-stabiliser

It keeps the horizontal lapbelt section of the seatbelt tight over the top of the pelvis so you don't slide around when cornering. It's no substitute for a proper race seat with a harness, but it's cheaper and more comfortable on long journeys as well as easier day to day - it's nigh on impossible to see when pulling out of a side road in my Westy as the bonnet is so long and the harness prevents any movement in the seat. In fact, I can barely reach the interior mirror once I'm strapped in! In an ideal world, having a well-padded race seat with inertia reel belts for the road and a full harness for the track would be the best solution.

Sounds like your ///M is going to become an absolute monster! I wonder if there will be a point at which more power is unusable as you just can't get it down.... You'll be needing a body kit and enormous rear wheels soon, as per the Marmite thread :D

I can't wait to start putting mine together. Even the suspension changes alone are going to make a huge difference as understeer is my greatest limiting factor at the moment. I've spoken with KW and they want £7.56 +VAT each for the six longer bolts needed to use the camber plates and strut brace together plus £8.50 +VAT for delivery :headbang: They've told me that they are M8 x 40mm bolts which are normally pennies each :thumbsdown: Is that what you used and do you think it would be possible to get them from a hardware store or are there elements to them that make them specific to the task (eg tensile or sheer strength, partially or fully threaded etc)?

....I'm hijacking my own thread now :lol:
 
BMWZ4MC said:
I use this in my ///M: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/harness-pads-accessories/cg-lock-seatbelt-stabiliser

It keeps the horizontal lapbelt section of the seatbelt tight over the top of the pelvis so you don't slide around when cornering. It's no substitute for a proper race seat with a harness, but it's cheaper and more comfortable on long journeys as well as easier day to day - it's nigh on impossible to see when pulling out of a side road in my Westy as the bonnet is so long and the harness prevents any movement in the seat. In fact, I can barely reach the interior mirror once I'm strapped in! In an ideal world, having a well-padded race seat with inertia reel belts for the road and a full harness for the track would be the best solution.

Sounds like your ///M is going to become an absolute monster! I wonder if there will be a point at which more power is unusable as you just can't get it down.... You'll be needing a body kit and enormous rear wheels soon, as per the Marmite thread :D

I can't wait to start putting mine together. Even the suspension changes alone are going to make a huge difference as understeer is my greatest limiting factor at the moment. I've spoken with KW and they want £7.56 +VAT each for the six longer bolts needed to use the camber plates and strut brace together plus £8.50 +VAT for delivery :headbang: They've told me that they are M8 x 40mm bolts which are normally pennies each :thumbsdown: Is that what you used and do you think it would be possible to get them from a hardware store or are there elements to them that make them specific to the task (eg tensile or sheer strength, partially or fully threaded etc)?

....I'm hijacking my own thread now :lol:

To answer your last question first; you can get "stud bolts" from engineering suppliers (one in almost every town) and here's a link to a company that does them that I found at random on google: http://ultimate-engineering.co.uk/wheelstuds.html The OEM/KW top mounts have a low torque setting, (and they fracture easily if over-torqued) so you'll probably be able to get something of higher spec.

I've also used the CG-Lock for many years in my Z3MC and it works a treat. The only downside for me is that the pressure across my abdomen makes me want to pee after a short time! :oops:

Will you fit all your stash at once, or will you fit parts individually so that you can properly assess the effects that each has on the car? I learned a great deal about suspension, handling, geometry and setting it all up by progressively changing parts on my Z3MC and experimenting with each change to assess how each part affects the dynamics before adding another factor to the mix, but you probably know all this from adjusting your Westy.
 
BMWZ4MC said:
It's getting ridiculous... KW Clubsports, camber plates, RE rear top mounts, Turner RTAB limiter kit, H&R front and rear ARBs, a clutch stop and ACS pedals (to aid heel and toe), and now VT competition mounts. By the time I come home I hope to have a BBK too (probably Alcon) to which I'll add some additional cooling ducts. I'm planning to do all the spanner work myself, so I'm going to be busy for a while. I'm really looking forward to a summer of trackdays, especially if I can save enough for a supercharger by then :trampoline:
Seems a waste just to use on trackdays -- have you thought about competing? You won't need FIA-spec harnesses, extinguishers and a roll cage if you do sprints and hillclimbs. You may even get away with being in Roadgoing rather than ModProd (there's some serious kit in ModProd, often ratty-looking but highly effective).
 
exdos said:
To answer your last question first; you can get "stud bolts" from engineering suppliers (one in almost every town) and here's a link to a company that does them that I found at random on google: http://ultimate-engineering.co.uk/wheelstuds.html The OEM/KW top mounts have a low torque setting, (and they fracture easily if over-torqued) so you'll probably be able to get something of higher spec.

Excellent - in that case, KW can keep their £65 bolts and I'll buy some locally once I'm back!

exdos said:
I've also used the CG-Lock for many years in my Z3MC and it works a treat. The only downside for me is that the pressure across my abdomen makes me want to pee after a short time! :oops:

Sounds like you need your prostate checked :rofl:

exdos said:
Will you fit all your stash at once, or will you fit parts individually so that you can properly assess the effects that each has on the car? I learned a great deal about suspension, handling, geometry and setting it all up by progressively changing parts on my Z3MC and experimenting with each change to assess how each part affects the dynamics before adding another factor to the mix, but you probably know all this from adjusting your Westy.

I'd like to say that I'll fit each part one at a time and try to measure the effect, but I'm not sure I'll be able to stop myself just fitting everything. Especially since I'll be doing all the work myself at weekends around work, so I could make it take all of next year if I don't get on with it! Besides, its need an MOT, road tax and insurance before I can drive it, and I'd rather do those things once the work is complete.
 
carl said:
BMWZ4MC said:
It's getting ridiculous... KW Clubsports, camber plates, RE rear top mounts, Turner RTAB limiter kit, H&R front and rear ARBs, a clutch stop and ACS pedals (to aid heel and toe), and now VT competition mounts. By the time I come home I hope to have a BBK too (probably Alcon) to which I'll add some additional cooling ducts. I'm planning to do all the spanner work myself, so I'm going to be busy for a while. I'm really looking forward to a summer of trackdays, especially if I can save enough for a supercharger by then :trampoline:
Seems a waste just to use on trackdays -- have you thought about competing? You won't need FIA-spec harnesses, extinguishers and a roll cage if you do sprints and hillclimbs. You may even get away with being in Roadgoing rather than ModProd (there's some serious kit in ModProd, often ratty-looking but highly effective).

I'd love to - it has always been my intention to start competing one day - cost is a serious consideration though. I consider myself a reasonable driver with a fair amount of trackday experience (over ten years in my Westfield and five in my ///M), but I would want to start competing in something a little more disposable and less painful on the wallet if it all went wrong. I finish my higher surgical training next year, so I should be in a more stable position both geographically and financially. I'll certainly give it more thought at that stage. It's not quite the same, but if Brighton Speed Trials is run in 2014, I'll sign up for that as a start. Also, I have contacts who provide medical support at motorsport events ranging from trackdays to formula one, so I'm planning to do that too. What sort of competitions do you take part in?
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Sounds like you need your prostate checked :rofl:
That's OK, my doctor does this with a blood test and mine's supposed to be in tip-top condition. :P I'm still a virgin for the traditional method hough. :rofl:

BMWZ4MC said:
I'd like to say that I'll fit each part one at a time and try to measure the effect, but I'm not sure I'll be able to stop myself just fitting everything. Especially since I'll be doing all the work myself at weekends around work, so I could make it take all of next year if I don't get on with it! Besides, its need an MOT, road tax and insurance before I can drive it, and I'd rather do those things once the work is complete.
Since you've already got all those parts waiting, I'm sure it'll be hard to resist fitting them all at once.
 
BMWZ4MC said:
I'd love to - it has always been my intention to start competing one day - cost is a serious consideration though. I consider myself a reasonable driver with a fair amount of trackday experience (over ten years in my Westfield and five in my ///M), but I would want to start competing in something a little more disposable and less painful on the wallet if it all went wrong. I finish my higher surgical training next year, so I should be in a more stable position both geographically and financially. I'll certainly give it more thought at that stage. It's not quite the same, but if Brighton Speed Trials is run in 2014, I'll sign up for that as a start. Also, I have contacts who provide medical support at motorsport events ranging from trackdays to formula one, so I'm planning to do that too. What sort of competitions do you take part in?
I do sprints in the SE/East Anglia -- I'm registered in the AEMC, ASEMC and ACSMSC sprint championships -- so mostly North Weald (bumpy), Debden, Brands Hatch (expensive), Lydden, Snetterton (lots of waiting), Hethel (excellent) and Abingdon (loads of runs, well organized). I planned to do the Brighton Speed Trials (I even got a Nat A licence so I could get more runs) but there was a clash last year and it was cancelled this year. Fearful of bending the Z4 as I've collected a few cones in my time, so I run a Citroen Saxo that I bought for £800. I ran an MR2 for 2 years that cost me £5000 all in (including purchase, consumables, fixing stuff and selling it), and then a Saxo for 2 years which has cost me about £6000 all in. Mostly because I had to buy two Saxos -- my dad rolled the first one. If you can find someone to double drive with of course the cost is halved (so actually it's cost me £3k over two years). Entry costs are about £1000-£1200 a year if you do 10 events. Some do more, some do fewer. Class A5 (roadgoing, above 2 litres) is dominated by a couple of Porsche GT3s at the moment so we could do with someone to give them a bloody nose. One of them has been beaten on occasion by a current Mini Cooper S (loses at least 0.5s off the line from being FWD, hard to make up in the rest of the lap) and a supercharged MX-5.
 
BMWZ4MC said:
Yeah, that's not too bad a price for the seats - I'd had a quick look at their website and clicked on this one almost at random:

https://www.tillett.co.uk/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=44&cat=B7+Racing+Car+Seat

At nearly 2k, it's a little pricey :D

I use this in my ///M: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/harness-pads-accessories/cg-lock-seatbelt-stabiliser

It keeps the horizontal lapbelt section of the seatbelt tight over the top of the pelvis so you don't slide around when cornering. It's no substitute for a proper race seat with a harness, but it's cheaper and more comfortable on long journeys as well as easier day to day - it's nigh on impossible to see when pulling out of a side road in my Westy as the bonnet is so long and the harness prevents any movement in the seat. In fact, I can barely reach the interior mirror once I'm strapped in! In an ideal world, having a well-padded race seat with inertia reel belts for the road and a full harness for the track would be the best solution.

Sounds like your ///M is going to become an absolute monster! I wonder if there will be a point at which more power is unusable as you just can't get it down.... You'll be needing a body kit and enormous rear wheels soon, as per the Marmite thread :D

I can't wait to start putting mine together. Even the suspension changes alone are going to make a huge difference as understeer is my greatest limiting factor at the moment. I've spoken with KW and they want £7.56 +VAT each for the six longer bolts needed to use the camber plates and strut brace together plus £8.50 +VAT for delivery :headbang: They've told me that they are M8 x 40mm bolts which are normally pennies each :thumbsdown: Is that what you used and do you think it would be possible to get them from a hardware store or are there elements to them that make them specific to the task (eg tensile or sheer strength, partially or fully threaded etc)?

....I'm hijacking my own thread now :lol:

i do agree, definite point where its all abit pointless, the headline HP figure isnt what i seek now, id just like a bump in TQ now.... plus the big blower is just getting into its efficiency range @ 10lbs so it'll really wake up, im going to built a blower Brace too to keep bracket flex to a minimum.... this engine with boost just feels and sounds nuts, you must try and get to me in 2014 for a run out :-) The car is feeling pretty wonderful right now, really pleased and proud of it.... as something completely different im going to enter a few show and shine events next year as rather sadly, i enjoy cleaning the thing as much as driving and modding it....

Carl pretty much hit the nail on the head and i've been brought up around sprint circuits/ hill climbs, curbourough/shelsly , ive never really had an interest in the large circuits, i like small timed tracks/scene that are tight and technical, you can hit great speeds but they focus on agility, acceleration and nimbleness, if your car performs well on decent sprint circuit it imo translates to a very well sorted car in other area's.... Not to mention you CAN keep the car looking immaculate as it just you and the track and the clock( Being careful as Curb isnt the most of forgiving places), i keep well short of my limit for fear of bending my pride and joy.
Every mod i do is benchmarked on Curb and i can usually see the benefits or pitfalls immediately, this is by far the most fun ive had with a car, the journey has been worth every single penny.

i fully intend to strap some numbers on the car and actually compete when my son grows up a little, being a lone parent, working full time and hobbies just dont mix, but its getting alot better,!!!!
Right now i'm more than happy hiring the circuit with a group of track car wielding friends and honing my car and skills a little further, we hire the circuit upto 5-8 times a year, but full days are hard on car and driver, i can easily run 2 tanks of fuel through the car on full days and often see glowing/smoking brakes and funnily managed to heat my dinner up last year on the square side of the supercharger :o :o :o :o

As a slight departure for my side i will be doing afew Night track days in the summer at donny, just to stretch its legs a-little and get some variation really.... my insurance allows 5 track-days a year, the rest i do at my own risk !!!!

back onto subject im sure their are better press studs available than those from KW and clearly i was lucky to get them free as 67 quid for a full set is LAUGHable and insulting!! BUT... KW are funny bugger and id hate for them to refute a warranty claim for having installed non stock pieces, have a think???? Worryingly after my last all day track session the 2 rear remote canisters started leaking, i removed and sent them off to KW for inspection, luckily all was well and it turns out they'd got alittle Hot, they refilled them and sent them back FOC, but this was normal and they sent a service notice on whats normal and whats not etc..... post lots of pics of the install buddy!!!!
 
Beedub said:
Right now i'm more than happy hiring the circuit with a group of track car wielding friends and honing my car and skills a little further, we hire the circuit upto 5-8 times a year, but full days are hard on car and driver, i can easily run 2 tanks of fuel through the car on full days and often see glowing/smoking brakes and funnily managed to heat my dinner up last year on the square side of the supercharger :o :o :o :o
Do you publicize (e.g. on here) when you're hiring the circuit? I presume you mean Curborough? As the only dedicated sprint circuit in the UK I feel I should have a go at it, as I believe it's in danger of being demolished for housing. A couple of the BARC events there were cancelled this year due to lack of entries. I feel a bit guilty, but it is a bit of a trek for me -- particularly as some of the dates clash with or are the day before events I normally do.
 
carl said:
Beedub said:
Right now i'm more than happy hiring the circuit with a group of track car wielding friends and honing my car and skills a little further, we hire the circuit upto 5-8 times a year, but full days are hard on car and driver, i can easily run 2 tanks of fuel through the car on full days and often see glowing/smoking brakes and funnily managed to heat my dinner up last year on the square side of the supercharger :o :o :o :o
Do you publicize (e.g. on here) when you're hiring the circuit? I presume you mean Curborough? As the only dedicated sprint circuit in the UK I feel I should have a go at it, as I believe it's in danger of being demolished for housing. A couple of the BARC events there were cancelled this year due to lack of entries. I feel a bit guilty, but it is a bit of a trek for me -- particularly as some of the dates clash with or are the day before events I normally do.

usually 10 of us, never tell anyone apart from the group, however your more than welcome to pop along come the next hire??? first ones mid april.... Barc events are great but your right the numbers are really getting thin on the ground.... ill drop you a PM well before the next event.... I would really like to hire it one day and do a z4 forum track event, think it would prove popular i could run the event easily and keep everyone organised and uncluttered but separating the cars into a groups.... if i could get a good 20 people at 55 quid each id do it...... ill have to throw some ideas round in the lounge....
 
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