EEK! oil smoke coming from oil filler cap after 20mile run....??

[Chris_D]

Back in Holland and cranked up the zed for the first time in about 10 days. Went for a shortish (10mile) trip to pick up some office gear and on returning home checked the oil dipstick to find it almost completely dry. Had to top up with a bit more than half a litre of 5w40 I keep in the boot before the level 'normalised' again.
BUT - I noticed a dark smoke emanating from the oil filler cap. Couldn't tell if the smell was of burning oil or not as I'm full of cold with a bunged up nose sadly.
Surely this aint right. I know these engines drink oil and I was hoping that the new cold-weather CCV system may have cured its' thirst but I'm pretty sure it's burned through a litre of oil in less than 1000 miles, or is that about right for thirsty M54 B3 engines?

Couldn't get a photo either but it wasn't billowing smoke - more a gentle trickle.
Any ideas?

EDIT: Plus, when does the oil light come on as the dipstick level was showing ridiculously low when I inspected it?

 

[Smartbear]

Hi, light comes on when a litre is needed-some of the m54 engines had a compromised sump return path via a tiny channel around the dipstick tube.
If you have this & it's blocked your engine breather won't work properly causing the burning issue.
The dipstick tube can be withdrawn from the engine with 1 bolt removed I think.
Ps, it won't be burnt oil under the filler cap. That's just oil vapour-oil gets burnt in the cylinders & expelled from The exhaust.
Rob

 

[Chris_D]

Hi, light comes on when a litre is needed-some of the m54 engines had a compromised sump return path via a tiny channel around the dipstick tube.
If you have this & it's blocked your engine breather won't work properly causing the burning issue.
The dipstick tube can be withdrawn from the engine with 1 bolt removed I think.
Ps, it won't be burnt oil under the filler cap. That's just oil vapour-oil gets burnt in the cylinders & expelled from The exhaust.
Rob

ok, cheers rob.
I flushed out the dipstick tube including the return section for the new ccv system so i hope it isnt that.
Maybe buggered piston rings like a lot of others then.
worth keeping an eye on.....

 

[john-e89]

Hi, light comes on when a litre is needed-some of the m54 engines had a compromised sump return path via a tiny channel around the dipstick tube.
If you have this & it's blocked your engine breather won't work properly causing the burning issue.
The dipstick tube can be withdrawn from the engine with 1 bolt removed I think.
Ps, it won't be burnt oil under the filler cap. That's just oil vapour-oil gets burnt in the cylinders & expelled from The exhaust.
Rob

ok, cheers rob.
I flushed out the dipstick tube including the return section for the new ccv system so i hope it isnt that.
Maybe buggered piston rings like a lot of others then.
worth keeping an eye on.....

Knackered rings will cause blue smoke from the exhaust Chris. Oil gets past them and burns in the chamber then pumps out with the burnt fuel.

 

[Chris_D]

Hi, light comes on when a litre is needed-some of the m54 engines had a compromised sump return path via a tiny channel around the dipstick tube.
If you have this & it's blocked your engine breather won't work properly causing the burning issue.
The dipstick tube can be withdrawn from the engine with 1 bolt removed I think.
Ps, it won't be burnt oil under the filler cap. That's just oil vapour-oil gets burnt in the cylinders & expelled from The exhaust.
Rob

ok, cheers rob.
I flushed out the dipstick tube including the return section for the new ccv system so i hope it isnt that.
Maybe buggered piston rings like a lot of others then.
worth keeping an eye on.....

Knackered rings will cause blue smoke from the exhaust Chris. Oil gets past them and burns in the chamber then pumps out with the burnt fuel.

oki. so any thoughts or hypotheses on what would be causing the oil consumption?
i was rather hoping the new ccv system would have stemmed its' thirst :/

 

[pvr]

You sure it is consumption and not a leak from the rocker gasket?

 

[john-e89]

Well if there's no blue smoke from the exhaust and no pools on the floor in the morning it must be breather problems I think. I don't know if there's a breather pipe into the air filter but worth checking the filter for oil ingress. There should be a crank breather, if that's blocked it'll be blowing oil vapour out somewhere else so I'd suggest try to get under the car or better still get it on a ramp, there should be evidence of oil blow somewhere. It's a long long time since I worked on cars and I'm not up to speed with new stuff so I'm just basing this on old knowledge, but the principles should be the same I would think.

 

[Chris_D]

You sure it is consumption and not a leak from the rocker gasket?

I fixed that a while back - put a new gasket on and cured the slight weep from the rear/bottom corner.

Well if there's no blue smoke from the exhaust and no pools on the floor in the morning it must be breather problems I think. I don't know if there's a breather pipe into the air filter but worth checking the filter for oil ingress. There should be a crank breather, if that's blocked it'll be blowing oil vapour out somewhere else so I'd suggest try to get under the car or better still get it on a ramp, there should be evidence of oil blow somewhere. It's a long long time since I worked on cars and I'm not up to speed with new stuff so I'm just basing this on old knowledge, but the principles should be the same I would think.

Could do with further investigation I think.

The only other explanation could be the leaky oil-filter housing gasket but that really doesn't look like much. Like the leaky cam cover gasket I had to replace it was only 'weeping' a little oil and the leak from the oil filter housing is about the same, maybe a touch more.

Will get that done to cancel that out as a source....

EDIT: how's yer old ticker doin John? everything on the up i hope?

 

[Smartbear]

Well if there's no blue smoke from the exhaust and no pools on the floor in the morning it must be breather problems I think. I don't know if there's a breather pipe into the air filter but worth checking the filter for oil ingress. There should be a crank breather, if that's blocked it'll be blowing oil vapour out somewhere else so I'd suggest try to get under the car or better still get it on a ramp, there should be evidence of oil blow somewhere. It's a long long time since I worked on cars and I'm not up to speed with new stuff so I'm just basing this on old knowledge, but the principles should be the same I would think.

Hi John, the ccv vents into the inlet manifold where its burnt as you say, you don't always see the tell tale blue smoke as the cats stop a lot of it & the exhaust silencer is an absorption type which again conceals the blue smoke from blowing out the back
Id hook up a catch can system to rule out ccv problems & see how the oil burning goes then.
Rob

 

[Pastry]

Did you just drive back to Liverpool Chris? It could have be siphoned out your car :wink:

 

[Smartbear]

Did you just drive back to Liverpool Chris? It could have be siphoned out your car :wink:

Yeah, as Pastry cleverly observed you have just visited Liverpool, so anything could have happened really
Forget all the technical nonsense, its obviously been stolen
Rob

 

[john-e89]

Well if there's no blue smoke from the exhaust and no pools on the floor in the morning it must be breather problems I think. I don't know if there's a breather pipe into the air filter but worth checking the filter for oil ingress. There should be a crank breather, if that's blocked it'll be blowing oil vapour out somewhere else so I'd suggest try to get under the car or better still get it on a ramp, there should be evidence of oil blow somewhere. It's a long long time since I worked on cars and I'm not up to speed with new stuff so I'm just basing this on old knowledge, but the principles should be the same I would think.

Hi John, the ccv vents into the inlet manifold where its burnt as you say, you don't always see the tell tale blue smoke as the cats stop a lot of it & the exhaust silencer is an absorption type which again conceals the blue smoke from blowing out the back
Id hook up a catch can system to rule out ccv problems & see how the oil burning goes then.
Rob

Cheers Rob, makes sense. I must get up to speed on modern engines, some winter reading methinks.

Chris...Heart AF won't improve for another 8 weeks yet as the scar tissue from the freezing needs that long to form.
But surgeon is happy with the ablation. Just this bloody lung with infected fluid in it is the problem right now, hoping the anti-bi's will have dealt with it by next week. Thanks though mate.

 

[Chris_D]

Did you just drive back to Liverpool Chris? It could have be siphoned out your car :wink:

Yeah, as Pastry cleverly observed you have just visited Liverpool, so anything could have happened really
Forget all the technical nonsense, its obviously been stolen
Rob[/quote]

Sigh. You guys. :roll: :lol:

Fair point I suppose but no, flew back with Sleazyjet and cranked up 'Bob' the old E93 I keep there. He's the one on the right in me sig pics init.
He needed a new battery however. Took me 2 fekin hours to swap a new one in cos of all the trim and other gubbins that has to be removed. Bonkerz.

 

[Chris_D]

Well if there's no blue smoke from the exhaust and no pools on the floor in the morning it must be breather problems I think. I don't know if there's a breather pipe into the air filter but worth checking the filter for oil ingress. There should be a crank breather, if that's blocked it'll be blowing oil vapour out somewhere else so I'd suggest try to get under the car or better still get it on a ramp, there should be evidence of oil blow somewhere. It's a long long time since I worked on cars and I'm not up to speed with new stuff so I'm just basing this on old knowledge, but the principles should be the same I would think.

Hi John, the ccv vents into the inlet manifold where its burnt as you say, you don't always see the tell tale blue smoke as the cats stop a lot of it & the exhaust silencer is an absorption type which again conceals the blue smoke from blowing out the back
Id hook up a catch can system to rule out ccv problems & see how the oil burning goes then.
Rob

Cheers Rob, makes sense. I must get up to speed on modern engines, some winter reading methinks.

Chris...Heart AF won't improve for another 8 weeks yet as the scar tissue from the freezing needs that long to form.
But surgeon is happy with the ablation. Just this bloody lung with infected fluid in it is the problem right now, hoping the anti-bi's will have dealt with it by next week. Thanks though mate.

Goodygumdrops. Good to hear John!
'Sterkte' as we say here in Holland...

 

[GuidoK]

I've also had similar oil consumption in the past, 1L per 1500km is about as worse as its gets.
It is not a CCV issue imho.
I solved it after I started to top up with 10w40 oil (the only oil the gas station had); I noticed that oil consumption became gradually less until the 5L can was empty and at that point it was virually nil.
Now I'm running 10W60 (same as z4m) because of the more power the engine gets (arguably) hotter. I'm planning to go back to 10w40 (maybe with oil cooler).
The big question is if 10w40 can hurt the engine. imho it cant. Certainly as the low temps in NL (and UK) are always pretty high. No -20C winters here. Also the engine is fast up to temperature due to the aluminium block (and it's not so great fuel efficiency :lol: )
That 10W40 solves a lot might come down to less seeping by the valve stem seals or by the oil scraper in the piston rings.
As mainly the 3.0 has this, piston ring oil scraper is the main source I think (3.0 has higher piston speed due to longer stroke and maybe rod angle plays a role; triangular force).

I now have no CCV (not in the traditional sense) because of the supercharger, but oil consumption still isnt an issue. There is very little oil carried through the cylinder head vent hose. I'm planning for a catch can though to better monitor it though.
So imho it looks like the oil usage comes from burning oil when the engine is still cold, and a thicker cold rating oil solved that for me, so rather 10w40 than 5w40
Modern emission laws tend to stimulate car manufacturers to use thinner oil (less friction), so maybe the use of 5w40 or 0w30 was a decision to get the engine better complied with euro/us emission standards or something like that.

 

[mr wilks]

I've also had similar oil consumption in the past, 1L per 1500km is about as worse as its gets.
It is not a CCV issue imho.
I solved it after I started to top up with 10w40 oil (the only oil the gas station had); I noticed that oil consumption became gradually less until the 5L can was empty and at that point it was virually nil.
Now I'm running 10W60 (same as z4m) because of the more power the engine gets (arguably) hotter. I'm planning to go back to 10w40 (maybe with oil cooler).
The big question is if 10w40 can hurt the engine. imho it cant. Certainly as the low temps in NL (and UK) are always pretty high.
That 10W40 solves a lot can come down to less seeping by the valve stem seals or by the oil scraper in the piston rings.
As mainly the 3.0 has this, piston ring oil scraper is the main source I think (3.0 has higher piston speed due to longer stroke and maybe rod angle plays a role; triangular force).

I now have no CCV (not in the traditional sense) because of the supercharger, but oil consumption still isnt an issue. There is very little oil carried through the cylinder head vent hose. I'm planning for a catch can though to better monitor it though.
So imho it looks like the oil usage comes from burning oil when the engine is still cold, and a thicker cold rating oil solved that for me, so rather 10w40 than 5w40
Modern emission laws tend to stimulate car manufacturers to use thinner oil (less friction), so maybe the use of 5w40 or 0w30 was a decision to get the engine better complied with euro/us emission standards or something like that.

Have you ever tried Millers CFS or do you have a particular favourite oil ?

 

[GuidoK]

Millers isnt easily available here. I usually use castrol edge TWS, but the oil that I bought at the gas station was I believe shell helix Hx (not even top of the range, semi synthetic).
The downside is that 10w40 is hard to get in fully synthetic. Not that I find that a problem, as long as the oil change interval is shortened (10k miles). I dont think semi synthetic or mineral oils have worse lubrication properties, just shorter life span.

 

[Chris_D]

Interesting hypothesis Guido.
I moved to 10w40 once my e36 M52tu went past 100k. Ran it past 250k miles with absolutely no oil consumption between oil changes so might try the same with the zed.....

 

[john-e89]

This is good to know, especially as I have a new 5lt can of Castrol magnatec 10w40 semi synthetic doing nothing. Just about to roll over 100k in a 3lt Zed.

 

[GuidoK]

I moved to 10w40 once my e36 M52tu went past 100k.

m52tu is virtually the same engine as the m54.
Anyone who says the word bearing clearance and oil viscocity must realise that the crank/rodbearing shells that are used in the m54b30 have been used since the mid 70's or so. (back to the e12/e21).
And the camshaft bearing ledges from the m54 (so the bearing trench in which the camshaft sit) are also used back until the early 90's (m50).
So that pretty much sums up the bearings from the running gear.
I bet that in the early 90's (or '70's) there wasnt any 0w30 oil etc around and all engines were using 10w40 or even heavier
So I also dont see any immediate problems :wink:

The m54 is the last in the line of an engine family that ran for decades (back to the m50 and partly also m20)
Obviously lots of differences between the engine generations, but also lots of similarities.

It would be interesting to see if oil consumption is reduced by other m54 engines and 10w40 or that it was just a fix for my engine.
The oil consumption never went away completely though, but its now 4 times less or so. (and I dont know what part of that is due to having no ccv at all, all oil in the crank ventilation air now gets burned instantly :evil: )