DSC/ABS "delete"?

[v8z4]

I have never liked the feel of ABS (even the best ABS feels spongy to me) and I HATE the DSC thinking for me. So, long term plan is full delete of the DSC/ABS module.

With that in mind, yesterday I tried pulling the DSC/ABS fuses without good results. I pulled the two 5AMP fuses and the gauges kept resetting. So then I pulled the two 30AMP fuses and the speedo didn't work (lost cruise, electric power assist steering, auto door locks, etc.).

So my question is, does the vehicle speed sensing come through the DSC/ABS controller such that no-ABS = no-speedo?


Side note/question: When I pulled the fuse and lost assist, I found I really like the car WITHOUT the power assist steering (manual rack only). It's significantly more consistent and predictable feeling, while only mildly difficult to turn standing still. If I remove the "electric motor" for the assist, with it trip any lights/codes?

 

[Adamski]

You're a brave man. I'm guessing no rain or slippy roads near you?

 

[krusty]

If you don't like DSC, you can switch it off (admittedly, you will have to do so each time you start up). But that's not a bad thing, because I think DSC off can be quite dangerous if not treated with respect, and is best kept for the right occasions / conditions.

 

[srhutch]

I can't see how ABS can feel spongy, unless the wheels lock I can't see that it's having any effect :?

 

[RichardG]

I can't see how ABS can feel spongy, unless the wheels lock I can't see that it's having any effect :?

X2, it's not just me then, you can definately feel it when it kicks in.

 

[Rialas]

You'll definitely be invalidating your insurance removing those items.
Not a good idea unless you want your car just for track use.

 

[mark a]

Even taking the fuse out the fluid still needs to negotiate the ABS module so it won't help get rid of the spongy feeling as it still has a bunch of valves to go through unless you completely take it out the system, (although personally it's not as spongy as other ABS cars although nowhere near as good as the non-ABS Lotus I had previously) but then you need to size the brake master cylinder and play around with bias valves to replicate the front to rear balance all programmed into the ABS system.

As has been said the DSC is just a switch away from being off.

 

[Boogle]

If you're after a raw experience - why not buy a car without these features from the outset? There's got to be small manufacturers in the US like we have in the UK, such as Caterham, Ariel, Westfield. Give one a call 'give me your best trackday car without any driver assists'.

Or get into karting. I've seen more than one vid of a kart going over 150mph. No assists there at all, no suspension either!

In short a road car has these assists for those fringe cases where the road is a little off, or you make a small mistake, etc. Useful on the road for obvious reasons - no one wants to be responsible for injuries. But a trackday car or a kart... custom made for driving pleasure at speed!

 

[Mangozac]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this is a really bad idea. Maybe if you were converting the Zed for track use only but as a road car disabling the stability aids is IMO quite a silly thing to do.

As said, to do it properly you would need to completely remove and hydraulically bypass the entire DSC module if you don't like the feel of the brakes when the DSC/ABS is not activating. Which again seems crazy as the brakes feel (and work) just fine to me!

 

[delarge]

I don't want to hijack the OP but when i've accelerated out of corners in the wet i've seen the yellow light flash and had the back end swing round a little. if i hit the DSC button once i get more slip(?) turn it off completely and what happens?

 

[moonshine]

you cannot stop the car in the wet without abs in a shorter distance than with abs. bypassing it or disabling it is a tit of an idea.
bear that in mind if you have to do an emergency stop or brake & swerve.
google youtube for tiff nidelll in a jag testing the benefits of ABS. (on Fifth Gear iirc) it is quite enlightening.

as for DSC, you have a button to manually disable it if you need, but there is no real need for normal road driving. it is there as a safeguard if you need it.

anything else is macho BS and driving that hard to notice the difference with ABS & DSC on a regular basis indicates you are most likely driving like a knob in a manner that has no place on the public road.

sorry... bad idea

 

[Mitch89]

I don't want to hijack the OP but when i've accelerated out of corners in the wet i've seen the yellow light flash and had the back end swing round a little. if i hit the DSC button once i get more slip(?) turn it off completely and what happens?

The flashing light is BMW saving your ass.

 

[Adamski]

I don't want to hijack the OP but when i've accelerated out of corners in the wet i've seen the yellow light flash and had the back end swing round a little. if i hit the DSC button once i get more slip(?) turn it off completely and what happens?

Turn off completely....

Driver - allow me to introduce you to the wall


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bing]

I don't want to hijack the OP but when i've accelerated out of corners in the wet i've seen the yellow light flash and had the back end swing round a little. if i hit the DSC button once i get more slip(?) turn it off completely and what happens?

Turn off completely....

Driver - allow me to introduce you to the wall

:withstupid:

All the way off is foolhardy, and not a little scary. In the wet it would be suicidal / homicidal unless on a track IMO. One push - DSC off / DTC on - can be fun on quiet twisties, as the back end will move a bit more, the light will still flash and BMW will still save your ass... though possibly not before your ass decides it's had enough

 

[Lightning87]

to me it almost was allow me to introduce you to a ditch, i was foolish thinking that i was the dutch DK and stuff, put the entirly DSC of and tought i could powerslide that corner. i got it straight again, but went of the other side, ( thank god, because the other side had a gaurdrail) my Z stopt just inches from a little ditch next to the road,
i mowed some gras but thanks to my guardian angel that, with a big wake up call, was the only thing.


so that story left me with one conclusion :

Are you out of your mind to drive without all those systems on the public road ? ABS saves you from hitting things because your foot could never ever compare with that system. why did you think that stuf was invented ?

DSC can be turned off, so why take more risk when in wet conditions?

 

[mmm-five]

The Z4MC is the first car I've had that has any form of traction control other than my own right foot, and that includes a couple of modified FWD cars and 3 e34 M5s (two of which had only slightly less HP than the Z4, but 10% more torque).

I'd managed to survive over 10 years without traction control on them, and only ever had people crash into me - and never crashed on any of my track days (might have been in the gravel/grass once or twice though).

Whilst I agree with the calls to leave ABS alone, mainly as it does plenty of good and very little harm, I'm in two minds with DSC.

However, I believe the proliferation of traction aids has not helped driving standards as anyone can pretend to be a driving god and hopes the DSC/DTC gets them out of trouble. Since I've had the Z4, I think I've become more aggressive with the loud pedal because I know it's going to sort it out for me, and I know that when I do take out a tree it'll be at such a speed/angle that DSC would not have helped anyway.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I would not want to be without ABS on a wet winter' night, and I really don't find any loss of feel under normal or even heavy braking.

As for DSC, I'm with mmm-five. I've had only one previous car with DSC and survived very well without it before that. I regularly disable the DSC on my ///M, but only at times when I deem it safe, and certainly I show the car more respect in these circumstances. On the track, the DSC is intrusive and kicks in well before the limit of traction is reached, cooking the pads unnecessarily, so it goes off and stays off. That said, I wouldn't feel comfortable without it on that cold wintry night.

If you want a car without any driver's aids, see my sig - my Westfield weighs under 600kg with me in it, and has 150-160bhp with no ABS, no power steering, no traction control, no DSC, no airbags, no crumple zones, no heater, no pedestrian-friendly engine covers, no doors, no roof...

 

[Bing]

Random question about brakes, possibly related to ABS... Occassionally, usually when I have been driving with a little passion but not exclusively, instead of the normal pedal movement when I depress the brakes the pedal travels a lot less and feels very much firmer and sharper than usual. If I lift my foot and then brake again it almost always goes back to 'normal'. Anyone know why this is ? It's not the ABS cutting in as I know what that feels like...

 

[Rialas]

Random question about brakes, possibly related to ABS... Occassionally, usually when I have been driving with a little passion but not exclusively, instead of the normal pedal movement when I depress the brakes the pedal travels a lot less and feels very much firmer and sharper than usual. If I lift my foot and then brake again it almost always goes back to 'normal'. Anyone know why this is ? It's not the ABS cutting in as I know what that feels like...

maybe brake assist?. Had this on my slk but not sure what the equivalent is for bm's

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_assist

 

[Loverobot]

Although a few of us appear to be in the minority reading the above posts I can confirm that I drive my MR permanently with sport on and all electronic aids off in all weathers other than standing water on a motorway journey when I will switch the DSC back on due to aquaplaning . I do not agree that its foolhardty at all and in fact I found the electronic aids to be intrusive and not a little dangerous, kicking in quite aggressively when I didnt expect it when making progress on progressively tightening corners where without its possible to balance the throttle and the slip

Without the aids there is more feel and the car is in fact very predictable even when driven quite hard

I am no 'driving god' but have always had sports cars and motorbikes - including a caterham superlight which had more bhp / ton than the z4 MR and no aids whatsover - same with the bikes

It will invalidate your insurance to remove the devices permanently unless declared

Just my two penneth