Disaster - EML DSC ENGINE - Just lit up like a Xmas tree

[Izice]

Well i knew if i kept the Z4M roadster locked away in the garage looking pretty i was going to save money.

Today going to work the engines sounding rough as hell, rev counter needle jumping around all over the place. Exhaust was popping away whilst i tried to manually counter the spikes in throttle with my right foot.

The it happens 3 lights; eml, dsc (triangle yello caution thing with the arrow) and the yellow engine block all lit up.

The car went into some sort of limp mode and i struggled to get it back home 1.5 miles @ 5mph max (5.50 am). Every time i tried to accelerate the engine died and i had to dip the clutch to keep her from stalling.

Eventually managed it back to my drive way and immediately swapped for the wife's nissan micra for commute.

Anyways this evening i started the beemer and same again. Throttling up and down rev counter up and down some dodgy noises occurring from engine. I plugged the OBC reader to get the codes

Heres what shows;

P110D - unrecognised
P1417 - unrecognised
P0139 - O2 sensor Bank 1 sensor 2 ----------Changed less than 6 mths ago
P0159 - O2 sensor circuit 1 Bank sensor 2 Ow res -----------Changed about 8 mths ago
P1637 - Throttle valve position control deviation -----------Changed about 8 mths ago

I tried the usual this morning restarting electric waiting ten seconds , then off , restarting 10 seconds electric only then off. It didn't reset faults.

I reset the codes this evening ( out of warranty now) and managed to get the engine warmed up with loads of drama then after about 10 mins it settles out fine.....engine ticks over nicely when no foot on accelerator. No jumping in revs and only fault P110D when scanned.

Is it time to get her traded as on top of this brakes and pads are needing done all round?

It's getting way too expensive to be fun anymore

 

[Ed Doe]

Sounds to me like the throttle plates got stuck open... Solution; drive it more!!

 

[Izice]

Sounds to me like the throttle plates got stuck open... Solution; drive it more!!

I only managed a week before i cracked. Have been using on a daily 50 mile commute for over a week now with some spirited

 

[AndyBeech]

Well i knew if i kept the Z4M roadster locked away in the garage looking pretty i was going to save money.

Today going to work the engines sounding rough as hell, rev counter needle jumping around all over the place. Exhaust was popping away whilst i tried to manually counter the spikes in throttle with my right foot.

The it happens 3 lights; eml, dsc (triangle yello caution thing with the arrow) and the yellow engine block all lit up.

The car went into some sort of limp mode and i struggled to get it back home 1.5 miles @ 5mph max (5.50 am). Every time i tried to accelerate the engine died and i had to dip the clutch to keep her from stalling.

Eventually managed it back to my drive way and immediately swapped for the wife's nissan micra for commute.

Anyways this evening i started the beemer and same again. Throttling up and down rev counter up and down some dodgy noises occurring from engine. I plugged the OBC reader to get the codes

Heres what shows;

P110D - unrecognised
P1417 - unrecognised
P0139 - O2 sensor Bank 1 sensor 2 ----------Changed less than 6 mths ago
P0159 - O2 sensor circuit 1 Bank sensor 2 Ow res -----------Changed about 8 mths ago
P1637 - Throttle valve position control deviation -----------Changed about 8 mths ago

I tried the usual this morning restarting electric waiting ten seconds , then off , restarting 10 seconds electric only then off. It didn't reset faults.

I reset the codes this evening ( out of warranty now) and managed to get the engine warmed up with loads of drama then after about 10 mins it settles out fine.....engine ticks over nicely when no foot on accelerator. No jumping in revs and only fault P110D when scanned.

Is it time to get her traded as on top of this brakes and pads are needing done all round?

It's getting way too expensive to be fun anymore

P110D - Throttle Position Sensor
P1417 - Throttle Control Incorrect Air Supply

With the above codes you've already mentioned, something's gone amiss on the intake side of things. Maybe a loose connection or a bit of dodgy wiring that's got wet/condensation and given off a dodgy reading.
I would check the connection for the TPS sensor on the front of the engine first as its easily accessible. The one underneath the intake manifold is a bit of a PITA to get to but worth checking if the problem comes back, or if the TPS sensor on the front of the engine appears ok. If the fault code remains P110D then I would consider a TPS sensor gone bad and needing replacement. Not a lot of money, around £80 for the sensor, easy job if your confident with a spanner to do yourself as well.
I wouldn't worry about the O2 sensor faults, most likely a symptom of the actual problem rather than a fault with those, especially if they have been recently changed. Not sure what you mean by you've changed 'Throttle valve position control deviation', does this mean you've changed the TPS sensors.....?

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about selling just yet, probably a relatively easy problem to sort.........it's a 40k+ car from new though, and it has the running costs to go with it, regardless of them being relatively older now, the maintenance/servicing side of it will never get any cheaper :wink:

 

[stevo///m3]

ouch, hope you get this sorted out lad (definietly drive it more!)
Stevo

 

[ITAG]

Hope you get it sorted. If you went for a newer car the engines are getting even more complicated with electrics and sensors.

Better the devil you know.

 

[a340driver]

From a previous thread on a similar problem:

"Hi Johnny

Mine did exactly the same thing on the 10th. I limped it home (not easy is it!) and left the car while I had a look at the manual. An hour later it started and ran fine with only the Exhaust emission value light remaining on. The next day all the lights were out and the car was running fine. I drove it a fair bit for the next 3 days until I took it to Oxford BMW.

It had logged a fault with the throttle system. I can't give you the codes I'm afraid. They rechecked the connections to the throttle valve and reset the throttle adaptions (I'm just reading the description from the bill). The action codes on the bill are 6100006 and 1199000.

Touch wood all seems fine again, but I will continue to drive it and give you a heads up if the problem re-occurs.

Paul"

You can do the adaptive throttle reset yourself and if it doesn't do anything, you won't have lost anything either.

"If you have different people driving your car, or have been doing a lot of town driving, this can help to reset the throttle responsiveness back to factory defaults.

Turn ignition off
Turn key to "on" position
Wait 15 seconds
Turn ignition off
Wait another 15 seconds

Start the car.... you should find the responsiveness has been reset."

 

[ITAG]

Is that correct? I thought this was a throttle reset due to the mechanism being out of alignent nothing to do with individual driving style.

 

[AndyBeech]

The throttle reset trick simply resets the 'learnt' values in the DME for pedal responsiveness. It's got nothing to do with the throttle mechanism itself. Pressing the sports button for example overrides the learnt values and sets the pedal to 'very responsive' nothing more. Resetting any other 'learnt' values the DME has saved over time requires INPA.

I would still be looking at a TPS sensor, if that's the fault code given along with the symptoms then I would say one or both of them are failing. If you have INPA or know someone that has access you could check this as it would show you the voltages the TPS sensors are giving, a faulty one would stand out quite clearly.

 

[swanicyouth]

I'm taking a different view on this issue. I'm thinking it's not the DME, a sensor, or any crazy computer problem - but a power supply issue.

Usually when multiple lights come on in a BMW of unrelated systems (engine / DSC) this means that the systems do not have enough voltage to run correctly. The car will also run poorly - because the spark is poor. Multiple codes may ensue. It will go into limp home mode.

My guess is there could be a poor connection or ground at one of the battery cables / alternator / starter. The poor connection is intermittently causing a voltage loss that waxes and wanes based on the temps under the hood. I've seen it before.

Other than that, I can think of no other plausible reason why the EML & DCS lights both come on at the same time and the car still runs.

 

[Maniac]

At least it's a seasonal thread.

 

[thepits]

If you went for a newer car the engines are getting even more complicated with electrics and sensors.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :thumbsdown:

 

[Geezah]

I read on a post here that the first port of call should be to strap a meter across the battery and check that out first, seems like a good place to start. Apparently the Z is a bit sensitive to any slight battery issue.

 

[Mangozac]

I'm taking a different view on this issue. I'm thinking it's not the DME, a sensor, or any crazy computer problem - but a power supply issue.

Usually when multiple lights come on in a BMW of unrelated systems (engine / DSC) this means that the systems do not have enough voltage to run correctly. The car will also run poorly - because the spark is poor. Multiple codes may ensue. It will go into limp home mode.

First thing I thought of too and the first thing I would check into.

 

[Z4M-2006]

Arent all the modules connected by the can network on the Z4M ?

Ie,a can line could spring multiple lights...?

 

[AndyBeech]

Arent all the modules connected by the can network on the Z4M ?

Ie,a can line could spring multiple lights...?

Would agree with that, I wouldn't read too much into the DSC light coming on as yet.
Deffo check the battery, it's an easy quick look, and might be the fault.

To the OP if you know someone with INPA on a laptop you could most likely diagnose this in 5 minutes, where are you located?

 

[swanicyouth]

Arent all the modules connected by the can network on the Z4M ?

Ie,a can line could spring multiple lights...?

They are "multiplexed" (old Ford term) together - meaning they communicate with each other. But, the lights are there to note problems in a system. If there is a problem in one system - multiple system warning lights don't come on.

Going by OPs description of events, he would have to have multiple system failures occurring at the exact same time (unlikely) for the DSC , EML, & CEL lights to come on at the same time. The common link is their power input or ground.

I don't think it's a battery or alternator issue per se - as the OP didn't mention the vehicle was having a slow cranking issue at anytime.

 

[Z4M-2006]

So if the can line between 2 or 3 modules has broken,then the warning lights for the 2-3 modules wouldnt light up ? Even though they had a communication problem ?

 

[Izice]

Well i knew if i kept the Z4M roadster locked away in the garage looking pretty i was going to save money.

Today going to work the engines sounding rough as hell, rev counter needle jumping around all over the place. Exhaust was popping away whilst i tried to manually counter the spikes in throttle with my right foot.

The it happens 3 lights; eml, dsc (triangle yello caution thing with the arrow) and the yellow engine block all lit up.

The car went into some sort of limp mode and i struggled to get it back home 1.5 miles @ 5mph max (5.50 am). Every time i tried to accelerate the engine died and i had to dip the clutch to keep her from stalling.

Eventually managed it back to my drive way and immediately swapped for the wife's nissan micra for commute.

Anyways this evening i started the beemer and same again. Throttling up and down rev counter up and down some dodgy noises occurring from engine. I plugged the OBC reader to get the codes

Heres what shows;

P110D - unrecognised
P1417 - unrecognised
P0139 - O2 sensor Bank 1 sensor 2 ----------Changed less than 6 mths ago
P0159 - O2 sensor circuit 1 Bank sensor 2 Ow res -----------Changed about 8 mths ago
P1637 - Throttle valve position control deviation -----------Changed about 8 mths ago

I tried the usual this morning restarting electric waiting ten seconds , then off , restarting 10 seconds electric only then off. It didn't reset faults.

I reset the codes this evening ( out of warranty now) and managed to get the engine warmed up with loads of drama then after about 10 mins it settles out fine.....engine ticks over nicely when no foot on accelerator. No jumping in revs and only fault P110D when scanned.

Is it time to get her traded as on top of this brakes and pads are needing done all round?

It's getting way too expensive to be fun anymore

P110D - Throttle Position Sensor
P1417 - Throttle Control Incorrect Air Supply

With the above codes you've already mentioned, something's gone amiss on the intake side of things. Maybe a loose connection or a bit of dodgy wiring that's got wet/condensation and given off a dodgy reading.
I would check the connection for the TPS sensor on the front of the engine first as its easily accessible. The one underneath the intake manifold is a bit of a PITA to get to but worth checking if the problem comes back, or if the TPS sensor on the front of the engine appears ok. If the fault code remains P110D then I would consider a TPS sensor gone bad and needing replacement. Not a lot of money, around £80 for the sensor, easy job if your confident with a spanner to do yourself as well.
I wouldn't worry about the O2 sensor faults, most likely a symptom of the actual problem rather than a fault with those, especially if they have been recently changed. Not sure what you mean by you've changed 'Throttle valve position control deviation', does this mean you've changed the TPS sensors.....?

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about selling just yet, probably a relatively easy problem to sort.........it's a 40k+ car from new though, and it has the running costs to go with it, regardless of them being relatively older now, the maintenance/servicing side of it will never get any cheaper :wink:

Got back from work tonight and fired her up and left her on the drive.

All the time it took with now additional revving to get to the removal of the 7th light on the rev counter the rev needle was jumping and dipping about 0.5cm above and below 1000 RPM. The idle was up and down if you like but it didnt stall.

After the 7th rev indicator light came off the engine revs were stable with only slight movement in the rev needle and slight variation of rev noise nothing serious.

I refrained from taking it a drive at that movement as i'm knackered from a heavy week.

I reckon when i take it for a drive when cold and the engine cant regulate a stable rev state the lights will come on again and perhaps limp mode will kick in. The funny thing is when the engine is warmed up it sorts itself out. Which leads me to think perhaps its a moisture thing or bad connection. Tomorrow im going to investigate further, thanks for all the good advice and ideas it's appreciated.
te

 

[Mangozac]

So if the can line between 2 or 3 modules has broken,then the warning lights for the 2-3 modules wouldnt light up ? Even though they had a communication problem ?

Your line of thought isn't wrong, but the CAN bus isn't necessarily daisy chained like that (it will be a combination of star and daisy chain layouts). Plus, I would expect the EML and CEL lights to come directly from the ECU itself, so there's no connection there to be lost.

Power is definitely a common denominator here and is the first thing to check.