Differences to Z4M and Z4MR driving

[Felix79]

Hi all,

Currently I am hunting down a Z4M/R as my next ride. I've got a limit of around £14,500 to spend on a replacement. Due to the price difference between the two models, finding a Coupe is very difficult, as it will be right at the limit of what I can spend.

I know the Z4M Coupe is actually a very stiff chassis and thus a brilliantly handling car. I also prefer the looks of the Coupe and I would guess I get a bit more room with a Coupe?

How different do the two versions feel when driving? I've owned a few convertibles in the past and while I don't mind having the ability to lower the roof, I tend to find the penalties of a soft-top kinda take away too much of an edge. My Poppa loves them because he likes to pose and while the car is to be mine, it will basically be a car he can drive as much as he wants too. He use to own an E46 M3 Individual Convertible in Blue Velvet. For me, I have always believed that the Coupe M3 to be a much better car, due to flex and weight.

I understand that the Z4MR is actually lighter, but I am curious just how much less rigid the body will feel and how the handling will differ between them.

Would a Z4 3.0 Coupe make for a better hooning option than going for the Z4MR, if I was able to get one tuned to have over 300bhp? There are some stunning 3.0 Coupes, that come in the blue colour I want and have things like the CSL wheels, for the same sort of price as a typical Z4MR.

My last car, which I had to sell a few years ago, was a very heavily modded Subaru Impreza P1 with a custom built engine that output 330bhp and 330flb. It was a real weapon of a car and when Poppa in his M3 Convertible and me in my P1 would go out hooning together, found the cars pretty evenly matched. If he had a coupe, I know he would have managed to wipe the floor with my P1.

One final query is about the Alpina Roadster S. I have previously owned an E30 Alpina C2 and since, I have always loved Alpina's versions over the M version of the same model. I love the look of the Alpina Roadster and bar changing the wheels to the traditional multi spoke Alpina wheels, think they look brilliant. How does the 3.4 Alpina engine compare to the might 3.2 engine from the Z4MR?

Thanks for any help and genuine feedback on these concerns of mine are greatly welcome.

Regards,

Dan

 

[ph001]

The difference in handling between the Z4MC and Z4MR is a not very significant compared to the E46 M3 coupe vs convertible. Main reason is the Z4 was designed as a roadster from the start and the coupe came later.

Would a Z4 3.0 Coupe make for a better hooning option than going for the Z4MR, if I was able to get one tuned to have over 300bhp?

You won't get a non M car to over 300bhp without going forced induction or nitro, trust me on that. Well I suppose you might just get to that by spending a couple of grand on breathing and porting then adding extremely aggresive cams and a torque curve like the Eifel tower but you'd hate driving it on the street.

If you want >300bhp, get an M.

 

[PerryGunn]

You won't get a non M car to over 300bhp without going forced induction or nitro, trust me on that.

errrr! Not quite right actually....

The Alpina is over 300hp - no FI or nitro needed...

 

[ph001]

You won't get a non M car to over 300bhp without going forced induction or nitro, trust me on that.

errrr! The Alpina is over 300hp - no FI or nitro needed... just saying...

Indeed! Anyway, you know what I meant as OP said Z4 3.0 Coupe to over 300bhp and I was directly replying to that quote so you took it out of context :crazydude:

 

[PerryGunn]

You won't get a non M car to over 300bhp without going forced induction or nitro, trust me on that.

errrr! The Alpina is over 300hp - no FI or nitro needed... just saying...

Indeed! Anyway, you know what I meant as OP said Z4 3.0 Coupe to over 300bhp and I was directly replying to that quote so you took it out of context :crazydude:

Of course - this is t'Internet... it's obligatory to quote things out of context

However, as the OP asked about the differences between the Alpina and the ///M - read https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49348&p=715946 as it's a report on the changeover from someone who has owned both

 

[Yorkie Z]

I can honestly say I’ve never felt any flex when driving mine.

 

[RickRob]

Whilst I have never been in an Z4M Coupe I find it difficult to believe that on public roads anyone would be pushing so hard that any more stiffness in the Coupe than the Roadster would show up. This may be different on a track.

Personally, even if the Coupes and Roadsters were the same price I'd still go for the Roadster as I think that proper sports cars should be roadsters.

Given the price differential the only reason to buy a Coupe would be you betting on it appreciating faster than the Roadster. Certainly the Z3M Coupe would have been a good buy a few years ago for that reason.

 

[stevo///m3]

I think the main choice in roadster v coupe is the looks/shape, especially for someone who doesn't use the functionality of a soft top particularly often. Flex won't be that much different on public roads and the running gear is near identical. The weight difference is almost non-existent (10kgs difference officially IIRC). You do get more boot/storage with a coupe although the compartment is awkward for larger items (e.g. a bike, say - you basically have to dismantle it until you've got a tiny bike). I love the S54 engine; I love the Z4 shape; I just love the Coupe shape more than the roadster shape and I'm just not that fussed about getting the rook down all the time. Your dad might be, though. Appreciating cars are rare and a nice bonus but you'd be better buying something else if you want it as an investment, something like a house for instance... The standard Coupe and the MC are different beasts in very many ways. Many say that you can do 90% of what you can do in a M Coupe in a standard Coupe...but it's more about how it feels as against outright pace and I don't think you can replicate that in a standard car.

For your budget and for keeping the old man happy, I'd advise M roadster.

Stevo

 

[Felix79]

Thanks for the answers guys, it has made me feel like I won't lose out with the Z4MR. Poppa's old M3 was specced with over £30k of options when new and it's 2 previous owners obviously liked to pose, the last owner however didn't have the money to look after it properly, which cost Poppa sooooo much money to get sorted. It was very rare that it had a factory fitted CSL front end and when he put a NOS set of CSL wheels on it did look amazing.

Looks like the Z4MR is going to be what I get, as I can get something well under 100,000 miles. My E30 Alpina C2 2.5 actually had 224,000 miles on it and was actually reshelled due to rust by Synther in the 90's. I spent several grand on getting all the suspension and bushes done, but like most e30's the rear arches were always rotting out on me. Even Poppa's E46 suffered with rust problems, which was one reason when I had the cash, I didn't get an E46 B3 3.3 as there were no clean 2 doors on the market and after being whacked out on my pain meds, after playing on GT5 I got my Impreza P1.

Did they ever have a hard top to go on the Z4? I've tried looking at it seems to be the 2009 onwards folding metal roof. If I could get a hardtop I would have it on bar the summer, as I just like the look of one when put on a car. The Spoon hardtop for the Honda S2000 is a prime example.

From various forum posts by people who have had the Alpina, they say they are a very good halfway between the 3.0 and M version.

Mum has told him off for trying to force too much influence on me getting the roadster as he's obsessed with having a folding roof. My main gripe of there being a big penalty for choosing a soft top over the coupe models in most cases. The roads around Oxfordshire are both great fun but poorly maintained as Oxford is the car hating capital of the world. Finding nice and interesting cars for sale around here is almost impossible and I'm looking at least a 100 mile round trip to look at most examples of the Z4M/R.

There is such a difference in how the E46 M3 Coupe and Soft Top's felt and drove. Poppa was bullied by mum to get rid of the M3 as she was peeved at being stuck in the back of a 2 door car when ever they had to have passengers with them. The poor buggered now has a 2.0 Merc C Class 4 door, as mum didn't want to lose her JCW Mini, even though it's VERY rare she drives. Since they got the Merc in the summer, it offers much better MPG than even the Mini, which meant I have benefited from it being put up for sale. I love the car to drive, as it was as much fun as my Impreza P1 on the B-Roads, but with over 115 bhp less!

The JCW Mini, which is a full factory conversion by JCW (not dealer) is up on Piston Heads ATM. It's priced too high and will be lowered in price. If anyone is interested in it, it is utterly flawless and has a full BMW service history and just recently finished it's Mini care package/warranty, so bar one independent BMW specialist doing some work on it, it's always had BMW do the work.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/mini/cooper-s-works/mini-r56-john-cooper-works-2010-211bhp/9222528

 

[Jembo]

I'd suggest spend your money wisely on a //M vert... you won't be disappointed - there's a few handling tweaks you can do to make the vert much better than a standard // M Coupe anyday... though then again the same tweaks can be done to the Coupe.

Awesome cars whichever you end up with

 

[buzyg]

The coupe is roughly twice as stiff as the roadster, due to the roof. However the roof also adds extra weight in the wrong place. To add a little more context the roadster is stiffer than both the feza 360 spider and the lotus Elise, both build around he same era. I have tracked mine a few times with the roof down and have never noticed any scuttle shake at all. Basically he roadster is plenty stiff enough unless you are building a race car so forget about that worry. 8)

The roadster is also slightly shorter sprung which helps taction and along with the slight weight advantage,, explains a number of road testers recorded slightly faster 0_60 times.

Big advantage of he coupe has to be A. Many people prefer the looks and B. It is more spacious, practical as a Daly driver.

Big advantage of any open top is hey are so much more fun. :driving:

So it's back to what's your bag and budget. :wink:

Happy hunting.

 

[srhutch]

It’s worth noting that the roadster is stiffer than the E46M coupe to begin with so shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Felix79]

Thanks chaps,

I found the thread about the Alpina Roadster VS Z4M really good. As much as I am a utter Alpina fanboy, I know I'll regret not going for a Z4M/R. I really love how the Z4M/R looks with the CSL wheels, but I might try and get a set of "proper" traditional multi-spoke Alpina wheels down the line. I don't like the "star" shaped Alpina wheels they had on the Alpina Roadster S.

I can see myself doing a CSL carbon airbox/induction installation, as it makes noises that leaves a damp patch on my undies. I have a bad habit of tinkering about with any car I get! There is a guy on YouTube, who's channel is called "Dutch Ring Racing" (no spaces) and he has both a Z3M and Z4M Coupes which are stripped and modded. The sound of his Z4M Coupe as he hoons around "The Ring" just blew me away. There is something very satisfying with a N/A BMW Straight Six and the howl they make.

Poppa is going to call up a dealers who have a '07 Z4MR in the colour I like, with 89,000 on the clock and FSH. They are even doing a proper 12 Warranty with the car, which really appeals to me. If they can offer a better deal than the £6250 a local dealer offered for mum's JCW Mini, there is a very good chance that I could be getting the car tomorrow. It's just over a 100 mile round trip, so if we can do it all in one visit, with getting rid of the Mini in a P/X, so we just transfer the policy from it over to the Z4MR, it will just solve a few headaches out in one go.

While I am ok with having a Z4MR, thanks to the advice/input from you guys in this thread, if it was doable to get the Z4M Coupe without having to make too many compromises, it would still be my preference as I just love the way the coupe looks. What I do know is I don't want to pass up the chance to have the final version of the S54 engine.

I'll make a thread when I am finally able to get my Z4M/R and no doubt start a build thread at the same time, as I know it's going to have stuff done to it!

 

[Felix79]

I've just tried Googling for a Z4M with the multi spoke Alpina rims and all I could find were ones with the ugly wheels they had with the Alpina Roadster. Does the Z4 / Z4M have a weird offset etc that would prevent me from putting a set of traditional Alpina wheels on it?

Edit - Just found the Alpina catalog for the Z4 and ....

ALPINA CLASSIC 18“ Wheel & Tyre Set
8 x 18“ 225/40 ZR 18 ZP Front
9 x 18“ 255/35 ZR 18 ZP Rear
with Run-Flat tyres Bridgestone
Order No. 36 11 193
8 x 18“ 225/40 ZR 18 Front
9 x 18“ 255/35 ZR 18 Rear
with MICHELIN Pilot Sport 2 tyres
including Mobility System
Order No. 36 11 200

So I at least know it's possible!

 

[PerryGunn]

I've just tried Googling for a Z4M with the multi spoke Alpina rims and all I could find were ones with the ugly wheels they had with the Alpina Roadster. Does the Z4 / Z4M have a weird offset etc that would prevent me from putting a set of traditional Alpina wheels on it?

Edit - Just found the Alpina catalog for the Z4 and ....

ALPINA CLASSIC 18“ Wheel & Tyre Set
8 x 18“ 225/40 ZR 18 ZP Front
9 x 18“ 255/35 ZR 18 ZP Rear
with Run-Flat tyres Bridgestone
Order No. 36 11 193
8 x 18“ 225/40 ZR 18 Front
9 x 18“ 255/35 ZR 18 Rear
with MICHELIN Pilot Sport 2 tyres
including Mobility System
Order No. 36 11 200

So I at least know it's possible!

Alpina classics were a no-cost option with the Alpina RS but very, very few were sold with them as in most people's opinion, including mine, the classics just don't look right with the Z4 shape - but, if you like them, go for it...

 

[RickRob]

And to pick up on an earlier unanswered question you can get removable hardtops for the Roadster. Seem to sell for between £750 and £900 - high prices in autumn, lower in spring.

 

[Felix79]

And to pick up on an earlier unanswered question you can get removable hardtops for the Roadster. Seem to sell for between £750 and £900 - high prices in autumn, lower in spring.

Ah that's good to know, thanks!

 

[Felix79]

I've just tried Googling for a Z4M with the multi spoke Alpina rims and all I could find were ones with the ugly wheels they had with the Alpina Roadster. Does the Z4 / Z4M have a weird offset etc that would prevent me from putting a set of traditional Alpina wheels on it?

Edit - Just found the Alpina catalog for the Z4 and ....

ALPINA CLASSIC 18“ Wheel & Tyre Set
8 x 18“ 225/40 ZR 18 ZP Front
9 x 18“ 255/35 ZR 18 ZP Rear
with Run-Flat tyres Bridgestone
Order No. 36 11 193
8 x 18“ 225/40 ZR 18 Front
9 x 18“ 255/35 ZR 18 Rear
with MICHELIN Pilot Sport 2 tyres
including Mobility System
Order No. 36 11 200

So I at least know it's possible!

Alpina classics were a no-cost option with the Alpina RS but very, very few were sold with them as in most people's opinion, including mine, the classics just don't look right with the Z4 shape - but, if you like them, go for it...

It's because of my first entry into BMW ownership was with the E30 and in my later 20's I discovered the UK C2 Alpina's and I first got a rare staggered set on my E30 325i Convertible and then managed to get my E30 Alpina C2 2.5 , which I owned for about 4 and bit years. My dream E30 is not the legendary M3, but actually the seriously rare E30 Alpina B6S. A M3 body, but with the Alpina M30 3.5lt straight six and Alpina front splitter and stripes.

On the PDF catalog I was able to find online for Alpina parts for the E85 Z4, there was a picture of an Alpina blue Z4 with the classic style wheels. I thought they looked really nice, but it's VERY hard to beat the pure sexiness of the CSL wheels. I kinda wish Poppa had taken his mint set off his M3 and just sell it with the standard M3 wheels!


With regards to wheels, I notice they seem to be shod with run-flat tyres (even the black Z4MR I looked at last week had run-flats on). Are the rims different, in order to use these tyres? Can a standard radial tyre go on these rims? Even though I've been stranded a few times due to getting a bad puncture, I'm not sure that you penalties you get with a run-flat set of tyres is worth it?

From what I could remember about the time back in the mid '00s , my folks had them on either an e46 330Ci or more likely their early '02 Pepper Mini Cooper. The road noise levels were somewhat amplified if memory serves me right? Also the price difference was quite bad. I know Poppa went over to a standard radial tyre as soon as possible.

There are two Z4M's I might be looking at tomorrow, one is a Z4MR but the other is a Z4M Coupe, which I think the seller said was going to need a fresh set of tyres in a few thousand miles. With my E30 Alpina and my Impreza P1, I was running on Falken's (I forget the exact model) and I have found them to be a great all round tyre at a really fair price. I actually took off 2 "good" Continental Sports Contact 3's and put a full set of Falkens on, as I had two punctures with the Conti's.

 

[flimper]

No Z4Ms have run flats thankfully

 

[srhutch]

As above, you shouldn’t find any Z4MR/C on runflats. The wheels aren’t degisned for them.