Bought a 2.0 E85 - Issues within a week

[TempusFugit]

I've recently bought an E85 Z 2.0 with 80k on clock, sapphire black with red leather interior. Id viewed a 2.5 with 115k and 3.0 M sport with 120k, and the 2.0 drove better, mostly because the M had worn bushes and the 2.5 had other issues.

Since i got the Z from the dealer i had a few issues, at first it was just Run flat warning, then first day of rain the drivers wiper linkage went. Next couple of miles (about 80) i get the engine symbol which i scanned and found to be a slow o2 sensor and a VVT malfunction.
Then a day later i get the traction control triangle warning come in with the brake symbol (didnt show on scanner).

Since then, still within a week of purchase, the roof motor goes belly up on me

During this time ive probably read most of these forums, the information has been invaluable. I really like the car but my gut is telling me to give it back and get out, look for another.

For the time being the brake/DST fault has reset on ignition on/off. The RFT warning has reset and ive been in contact with the garage about the roof motor.

Should I keep it? Major concerns over VVT failure and DST issues..

None of these issues surfaced on multiple test drives, all was good in the hood.

 

[groovy_hippy]

Sounds like they sold you something that either wasn't as described or isn't fit for purpose....If it was sold to you as all working and good condition, I'd be hammering them for all I could get...

 

[volumex65]

agree , back to the dealer pronto

 

[Crazy Harry]

agree , back to the dealer pronto

+1

BMW dealer? Cars sales yard with warranty? Think I'd be saying sort it (warranty or 'not fit for purpose') or more likely (for peace of mind) not fit for purpose and cash back then you can walk away and carry on looking. Members on here always selling - well known looked after cars.

I think you have a number of days to take it back and walk away from the sale - sure another member will know the exact details.

 

[Scooba_Steve]

Assuming you're in the UK: Back to dealer to fix - tell them to stuff the warranty - Consumer Rights Act 2015, satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. You can see if they offer repair if you want it, or you have 30 days to reject for refund.

 

[goldbcfc]

You have a buyers right for instant refund and name taken straight back off the log book only if you have NOT DRIVEN the car on the road (Test drive with prior plates etc is fine). You can only then get a refund if the item is faulty and not repaired correctly after complaint by trader or mis sold. If you signed a checklist on sale covering the warranty this will help your case. So the trader will be given an option to repair your vehicle first, If the trader can not do this and its still faulty you can then demand a refund. They will most likely just say you have broken the car and for you to prove otherwise in court. Your best option is returning the vehicle and telling them to fix it or refund. They will then probably consider the repair bill and give your money back if their a genuine trader. Did the car come with 12 months MOT?. None of the problems are that serious other than the VVT and roof which are probably the 2 most expensive and important to fix. Id price up all the things you think are wrong, go back say look this is what its going to cost. They will most likely give a refund then sell it back through auction if its too much to fix themselves.

run flat warning (minor fault) could be sensor or you need to inflate/change tyre etc
Drivers wiper linkage (very common) I had same on one of mine cost £5 with fix kit from ebay
O2 sensor (common again) its an old sensor just needs replacing
VVT malfunction (common fault) Why many buy a 6 cylinder engine as all bmw 4 cyl have had these issues going back years
Roof pump (another common problem) expensive to fix £600+ but could be saved for cheaper if moved/repaired

 

[paulgs1000]

You have a buyers right for instant refund and name taken straight back off the log book only if you have NOT DRIVEN the car on the road (Test drive with prior plates etc is fine). You can only then get a refund if the item is faulty and not repaired correctly after complaint by trader or mis sold. If you signed a checklist on sale covering the warranty this will help your case. So the trader will be given an option to repair your vehicle first, If the trader can not do this and its still faulty you can then demand a refund. They will most likely just say you have broken the car and for you to prove otherwise in court. Your best option is returning the vehicle and telling them to fix it or refund. They will then probably consider the repair bill and give your money back if their a genuine trader. Did the car come with 12 months MOT?. None of the problems are that serious other than the VVT and roof which are probably the 2 most expensive and important to fix. Id price up all the things you think are wrong, go back say look this is what its going to cost. They will most likely give a refund then sell it back through auction if its too much to fix themselves.

run flat warning (minor fault) could be sensor or you need to inflate/change tyre etc
Drivers wiper linkage (very common) I had same on one of mine cost £5 with fix kit from ebay
O2 sensor (common again) its an old sensor just needs replacing
VVT malfunction (common fault) Why many buy a 6 cylinder engine as all bmw 4 cyl have had these issues going back years
Roof pump (another common problem) expensive to fix £600+ but could be saved for cheaper if moved/repaired

Top advice - hope you get sorted

 

[TempusFugit]

Thanks for all the input people, much appreciated.

Will see what the dealer/trader sais when i return this week.

 

[Scooba_Steve]

Thanks for all the input people, much appreciated.

Will see what the dealer/trader sais when i return this week.

But what do you want, to keep or get rid? You need to decide first and get what you want, not the other way around.

 

[Mr Tidy]

But what do you want, to keep or get rid? You need to decide first and get what you want, not the other way around.

Yes, more good advice OP!

Hope you get a good conclusion.

 

[MACK]

Probably better to bail out of this if you can, quite a few issues which on their own might not be too bad but as other have said coupled with the engine fault and the 2.0 engine being notorious for this I would try and leave it. (But we wont go there or the 2.0 Extremist Jihadi's will be after me again! ) If you can get your money back and the 3.0 you liked is still available and if all if really needs is bushes they're a fairly cheap and easy fix. Either negotiate they do it or get them to knock off the money needed.

 

[Ewazix]

You have a buyers right for instant refund and name taken straight back off the log book only if you have NOT DRIVEN the car on the road (Test drive with prior plates etc is fine). You can only then get a refund if the item is faulty and not repaired correctly after complaint by trader or mis sold.................

I'm not necessarily querying the advice but it's always nice to see statements of 'fact' backed up with a link to an authoritative source that people can go to and use. I've never seen anything about rights to have name taken off a log book and a refund "only if you haven't driven it on a road" etc, the legislation seems to be more generalised and protective than that. Where has that come from for future reference please?

'Which' consumer rights info (info differs from above) http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
.GOV Consumer Rights Act 2015 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/pdfs/ukpga_20150015_en.pdf

 

[TempusFugit]

If you bought the car any time after 1 October 2015, you only have 30 days to reject a second-hand car and get a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act.
If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you're entitled to a refund.
But the car dealer can make a deduction from the refund after the first 30 days for 'fair use'.

When you buy a second-hand car from a used car dealership in the UK, you have the right under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaced the Sale of Goods Act from 1 October 2015), to expect the car to:

be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
meet any description given to you when you were buying it (whether in the ad or in discussions prior to sale)
be fit for purpose (in this case for example, to get you from A to B safely)

The main thing is this:

If something you buy is not 'as described', or the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, you're entitled to give the second-hand car back and get your money back

As the sellers advert/description stated:

power roof (which works perfectly- one needs to be careful with this as Z4 roof motor problems are common and expensive to sort)

The following all suggest that using the car on road isnt an issue:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

 

[riverside23]

Good luck with sorting out the issues. I rejected a car after 4 months as I lost faith in the dealer fixing it . Needed a new clutch went in 4 times and then came bank stinking. They wanted it again and said the bell housing needed cleaning .
I had done a 1000 miles and they knocked off £500 cheeky gits .
Sounds like you have got a multitude of issues .

 

[goldbcfc]

You have a buyers right for instant refund and name taken straight back off the log book only if you have NOT DRIVEN the car on the road (Test drive with prior plates etc is fine). You can only then get a refund if the item is faulty and not repaired correctly after complaint by trader or mis sold.................

I'm not necessarily querying the advice but it's always nice to see statements of 'fact' backed up with a link to an authoritative source that people can go to and use. I've never seen anything about rights to have name taken off a log book and a refund "only if you haven't driven it on a road" etc, the legislation seems to be more generalised and protective than that. Where has that come from for future reference please?

'Which' consumer rights info (info differs from above) http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
.GOV Consumer Rights Act 2015 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/pdfs/ukpga_20150015_en.pdf

DVLA, call them and ask....I'm a trader

this is why the trader could be difficult now as the new owner has removed the car from forecourt or dealer facilities etc and used on a public road. Which will make it impossible to take them back off the V5C. Therefore .the V5C can only be changed back if it hasn't been driven/taxed etc. Maybe I wasn't very clear before

 

[goldbcfc]

If you bought the car any time after 1 October 2015, you only have 30 days to reject a second-hand car and get a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act.
If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you're entitled to a refund.
But the car dealer can make a deduction from the refund after the first 30 days for 'fair use'.

When you buy a second-hand car from a used car dealership in the UK, you have the right under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaced the Sale of Goods Act from 1 October 2015), to expect the car to:

be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
meet any description given to you when you were buying it (whether in the ad or in discussions prior to sale)
be fit for purpose (in this case for example, to get you from A to B safely)

The main thing is this:

If something you buy is not 'as described', or the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, you're entitled to give the second-hand car back and get your money back

As the sellers advert/description stated:

power roof (which works perfectly- one needs to be careful with this as Z4 roof motor problems are common and expensive to sort)

The following all suggest that using the car on road isnt an issue:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

You need to make a case that your buying a convertible for that main purpose of the roof working. Even then the trader is still not bound to rights to give you a FULL refund. The trader must first try and fix the problem. If after a few attempts they cant fix the problem and still wont offer a refund. You then have a case to take it to court. Usually cases of £5000 and above are taken seriously. I'm a trader I hear stories all the time. If the trader doesn't offer a refund straight away you could be in for a long stressful time. Which may even leave you out of pocket yourself after. Any decent trader would give a refund with in 30 days. A Friend just had his E46 M3 SMG gearbox go wrong. The trader cancelled his extended warranty taken out on purchase when told about complaint. Then let my friend take the trader to court. He couldn't prove anything in court and was left with a broken car to fix. Its currently at BW chiptune with Jason a reliable bmw tech this week being repaired £1100+ and that's not including the court fees too.

The roof motor was what put me off my first Z4 so I got one that had a receipt showing pump had been changed. Ive had 4 of the E85 Z4 roadsters now and 2 had new roof pumps with receipts £600+. You could always tell the trader you want it fixed. That way you keep the car, pay same price and get a new roof pump. All other problems were minor all though the 2.0i engine bmw's valvetronic system can be known for faults. I didn't buy a nice facelift Z4 2.0i today at auction because of this known risk, 6 cylinder can be better.

 

[TempusFugit]

Actual value Eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwnki_u) 173.60 degrees
   Setpoint eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwinks_u) 48.80 degrees

Looks like the VVT motor maybe dead as cam position not reaching its setpoint, fuel economy is poor for 2.0 (30mpg best, 22 worst) and some O2/Cat efficiency issues. Looking back at documents someone had the VVT codes reset a year ago, so possibly been putting rich gas on the Cat for a year at least. Concerned for Cat, pretty sure the VVT needs new seals/motor, shame they didnt do that when they changed the rocker gasket.

Does this suggest its a high frequency scan or that its been a problem for a long time?

Error counter: 255

E R R O R M E M O R Y
           ---------------------------------------

Date: 29.05.2017 16:34:31
ECU: MEV9N46L
JobStatus: OK
Variant: MEV9N46L
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

RESULT: 4 error in error memory!
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

2A67 CDKDVEST - VVT control

P1050 VVT control (bank 1) - Malfunction or line interruption

Error counter: 255
Logistic counter: 40

1. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129360 km
   Supply voltage (ub) 12.43 V
   Byte-oriented storage for B_vvt in the FF array (bitcnv_vvt) 1.00
   Status error Overload VVT1 (stdvovrld) 8.00
   Voltage diagnosis port VVT control (uvvtdia) 0.82 V

2. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129360 km
   Supply voltage (ub) 12.34 V
   Byte-oriented storage for B_vvt in the FF array (bitcnv_vvt) 1.00
   Status error Overload VVT1 (stdvovrld) 8.00
   Voltage diagnosis port VVT control (uvvtdia) 0.90 V

3. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129700 km
   Supply voltage (ub) 12.25 V
   Byte-oriented storage for B_vvt in the FF array (bitcnv_vvt) 1.00
   Status Error Overload VVT1 (stdvovrld) 8.00
   Voltage diagnosis port VVT control (uvvtdia) 0.92 V

   Control error in general
   Test conditions fulfilled
   Error not present, but already saved
   Fault would cause a warning light to light up
   Diagnostics active
   Cycle flag
   MIL

Error code: 2A 67 A8 15 10 50 FF 28 32 88 84 01 08 2A 32 88
            83 01 08 2E 32 AA 82 01 08 2F
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

2A63 CDKDVSTE - VVT control unit monitoring

Error counter: 11
Logistic counter: 40

1. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129360 km
   Supply voltage (ub) 12.34 V
   Duty ratio VVT- Motor control (tvvvtm_u) -96.88%
   Actual value Eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwnki_u) 173.60 degrees
   Setpoint eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwinks_u) 48.80 degrees

2. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129360 km
   Supply voltage (ub) 12.72 V
   Duty ratio VVT- motor control (tvvvtm_u) -17.97%
   Actual value Eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwnki_u) 173.60 degrees
   Setpoint eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwinks_u) 173.60 degrees
3. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129700 km
   Supply voltage (ub) 12.25 V
   Duty ratio VVT- motor control (tvvvtm_u) -98.44%
   Actual value Eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwnki_u) 173.60 degrees
   Setpoint eccentric angle VVT ​​(exwinks_u) 49.60 degrees

   Lagereglerueberwachung
   Test conditions fulfilled
   Error present, but not yet saved (Debounce phase)
   Fault would cause a warning light to light up
   Diagnostics active
   Cycle flag

Error code: 2A 63 C4 05 00 00 0B 28 32 88 83 84 D9 3D 32 88
            87 E9 D9 D9 32 AA 82 82 D9 3E
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

2CA2 CDKHSVSA - Heating Lambda probe before Cat (shear stress)

P1100 Lambda probe (bank 1, before catalytic converter) - slow reaction after thrust shutdown p

Error counter: 9
Logistic counter: 39

1. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129370 km
   Voltage LS heating by cat (uhsv) 0.00 V
   LSU voltage vKat (ADC) (uulsuv_u) 2.36 V
   Exhaust temp. V. Cat from model (tabgm) 795.00 Grd C
   Vehicle speed (vfzg_u) 60.00 km / h

2. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129380 km
   Voltage LS heating by cat (uhsv) 0.00 V
   LSU voltage vKat (ADC) (uulsuv_u) 2.48 V
   Exhaust temp. V. Cat from model (tabgm) 800.00 Grd C
   Vehicle speed (vfzg_u) 108.00 km / h

3. Environmental condition
   Mileage 129700 km
   Voltage LS heating by cat (uhsv) 0.00 V
   LSU voltage vKat (ADC) (uulsuv_u) 2.30 V
   Exhaust temp. V. Cat from model (tabgm) 825.00 Grd C
   Vehicle speed (vfzg_u) 106.00 km / h

   Too low signal voltage
   Test conditions fulfilled
   Error present and already saved
   Fault would cause a warning lamp to light up
   Error in debounce phase

Error code: 2C A2 E8 20 11 00 09 27 32 89 00 79 A9 3C 32 8A
            00 7F AA 6C 32 AA 00 76 AF 6A
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

29F4 CDKKAT - Catalyst conversion

Error counter: 1
Logistic counter: 32

   Mileage 129630 km
   Exhaust mass flow filtered (msabg) 20.00 kg / h
   Relative air filling (rl) 27.75%
   Exhaust temperature Cat. Of model (tikatm) 615.00 Grd C
   Lambda actual value vKat (lamsoni_u) 0.94 -

   Catalyst efficiency below threshold
   Test conditions fulfilled
   Error so far not occurred
   Fault would cause a warning lamp to light up
   Diagnosis stopped

Error code: 29 F4 82 02 00 00 01 20 32 A3 05 25 85 0F FF FF
            FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
================================================== ===========

Looks like the DSC/ABS issue may just be a sensor issue

E R R O R M E M O R Y
           ---------------------------------------

Date: 29.05.2017 16:46:08
ECU: DSC_MK60
JobStatus: OK
Variant: DSC_MK60
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

RESULT: 2 error in error memory!
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

5E24 Pressure sensor 1/2 implausible

Error counter: 2
Logistic counter: 15

   Mileage 129490 km
   Vehicle speed 0.00 km / h
   Brake light switch 0.00 0/1
   Brake fluid switch 0.00 0/1
   ASC / DSC_active (pushbutton function) 1.00 0/1
   Brake pressure detected 1.00 0/1
   ABS control 0.00 0/1
   ASC control (BMR) 0.00 0/1
   ASC control (AMR) 0.00 0/1
   GMR Regulation (GMR) 0.00 0/1
   GMR Regulation (MMR) 0.00 0/1
   CBC control 0.00 0/1
   MSR control 0.00 0/1
   TDR regulation 0.00 0/1
   SDR control 0.00 0/1
   DBC control 0.00 0/1
   RTA active 1.00 0/1
   Run-Up Mode 0.00 0/1

   No suitable error symptom
   Test conditions
   Error not present, but already saved
   Fault would cause a warning lamp to light up

Error code: 5E 24 A0 02 0F 32 95 00 2A 00 04
-------------------------------------------------- -----------

5E21 Pressure sensor 2 electrically defective

Error counter: 6
Logistic counter: 17

   Mileage 129410 km
   Vehicle speed 24.00 km / h
   Brake light switch 0.00 0/1
   Brake fluid switch 0.00 0/1
   ASC / DSC_active (pushbutton function) 1.00 0/1
   Brake pressure detected 0.00 0/1
   ABS control 0.00 0/1
   ASC control (BMR) 0.00 0/1
   ASC control (AMR) 0.00 0/1
   GMR Regulation (GMR) 0.00 0/1
   GMR Regulation (MMR) 0.00 0/1
   CBC control 0.00 0/1
   MSR control 0.00 0/1
   TDR regulation 0.00 0/1
   SDR control 0.00 0/1
   DBC control 0.00 0/1
   RTA active 1.00 0/1
   Run-Up Mode 0.00 0/1

   No suitable error symptom
   Test conditions
   Error not present, but already saved
   Fault would cause a warning lamp to light up

Error code: 5E 21 A0 06 11 32 8D 18 08 00 04
================================================== ===========

 

[TempusFugit]

Update. Returned car to the dealership for repairs, at their expense on the 31-May-17. Still not finished on 26-Jul-17.

They have apparently replaced the roof motor, brake calliper, ABS pump and had to wait for a wiring loom from BMW Germany. Then had to replace the ECU and again had to wait for it.

Not optimistic that even when I get it back it will be without issue.

 

[Ewazix]

Update. Returned car to the dealership for repairs, at their expense on the 31-May-17. Still not finished on 26-Jul-17.

They have apparently replaced the roof motor, brake calliper, ABS pump and had to wait for a wiring loom from BMW Germany. Then had to replace the ECU and again had to wait for it.

Not optimistic that even when I get it back it will be without issue.

Jeez

Good job the work was covered and those are not even the common 2.0 specific issues that occur!

 

[maxman]

You have a buyers right for instant refund and name taken straight back off the log book only if you have NOT DRIVEN the car on the road (Test drive with prior plates etc is fine). You can only then get a refund if the item is faulty and not repaired correctly after complaint by trader or mis sold.................

I'm not necessarily querying the advice but it's always nice to see statements of 'fact' backed up with a link to an authoritative source that people can go to and use. I've never seen anything about rights to have name taken off a log book and a refund "only if you haven't driven it on a road" etc, the legislation seems to be more generalised and protective than that. Where has that come from for future reference please?

'Which' consumer rights info (info differs from above) http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
.GOV Consumer Rights Act 2015 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/pdfs/ukpga_20150015_en.pdf

DVLA, call them and ask....I'm a trader

this is why the trader could be difficult now as the new owner has removed the car from forecourt or dealer facilities etc and used on a public road. Which will make it impossible to take them back off the V5C. Therefore .the V5C can only be changed back if it hasn't been driven/taxed etc. Maybe I wasn't very clear before

I hope the mods take note that you are no longer in denial regarding your status as a trader. :lol: