Given the fact that at times we have to sell our cars on at what point would you say a Z4m interns of its mileage becomes a) worth a lot less b) undesirable and c) and most importantly what is the figure you'd always naturally go to buy a car under that amount (ie I have a block at 60,000 miles but would always prefer 50 or less, and ideally sub 40 if poss without breaking the bank ;0)
At what point is a z4m considered high mileage?
- Thread starter Smudgers
- Start date
I think it's purely personal preference. I wouldn't buy a car with more than 20 k on the clock. I'm probably in the minority though. I want someone else to take the depreciation hit and buy a car which is still 'new'. I also like to know that I'm buying a car where any teething issues are sorted but not driven enough that age/mileage related issues are going to pop up.
I look for a garage queen, preferably with an OCD owner who spent lots of time polishing and tinkering with a little bit of driving :evil:
I look for a garage queen, preferably with an OCD owner who spent lots of time polishing and tinkering with a little bit of driving :evil:
Merrsh1 said:
So in the context of the OPs question, you would no longer buy an ///M? Highly unlikely to find a sub 20k miler out there now. That white MC must be the lowest mileage I've seen and it's price is at a premium that most people are saying too high (but good luck also)
Stuart Truman said:
There was a chap at Zedfest who had a Midnight Blue Z4MC which only had 12k miles on it (was a 2006 I think) but generally you're right Stuart.
I'd love it if that guy got £21k for that white M but i fear it's massively over-priced for a private sale. As an AUC possibly not. I think when you are talking about car models that are +4 years old the difference between 4/5/6 years old is negligible in value terms. It is much more about mileage/condition/history/ownership history etc.
In the past M's have not worn their mileages well when it comes to used values. It seems most buyers want a low mileage one and that therefore pushes the prices of the higher mileage ones down disproportionately. It's true of most high performance cars. Look at a Ferrari - stick more than 10k miles on it and watch its value start to plummet.
As to the question of what constitutes low mileage - depends on the age of the car. A 20 year old E30 M3 with 50-60k miles will probably be considered low mileage but a Z4MC with 50-60k miles is probably thought of as being quite high mileage at present.
There was that space grey roadster recently - the only one in the country - that had about 17k miles on it, selling for just under £17k - for such low miles, and mint condition, in my head that seemed about right - as an AUC I'd have expected it to be about £19k from what I have seen, no more. Gone now though 
I would consider a Z4M with over 80k to be high mileage. That doesnt mean I dont think it's capable of another 80k on top.
Mr Wilks has summed it up quite well. Age, Condition, Service History etc are all very important. I'd rather have 40k of daily driving, than 20k of track days...
You pays yer money...
Mr Wilks has summed it up quite well. Age, Condition, Service History etc are all very important. I'd rather have 40k of daily driving, than 20k of track days...
You pays yer money...
Well these cars are designed to be driven everyday unlike supercars. So average milage of 12-15k a year that would place an average milage Z4M from 2006 at 72k-90k. But say low milage is 6k a year 36k and there are a few nocking around at this or pushing 40k. These cars aren't getting younger and unfortunately they only made 550ish M coupes not sure about the roadsters so pickings are slim.
Anyway a 40-50k model IMO is fine teething problems gone, but would still want a warranty regardless. But yes as long as its been looked after correctly, condition is good, service history is there and there aren't too many owners (as this could be an indicator of problems) I would go for it.
Mechanically there arent really any problems worth worrying about. I would worry more about the trim it does not ware well at all for some reason, and I would expect quite a lot of wear at 70+k mine is at 51k and does have a little ware but nothing that cant be sorted, like drivers bolster etc.
Thing is most things cant be brought back to life with minimal money but depends if you want the hassle.
As for the white M for sale. Didnt want to say on the thread but it is overpriced even for a white M. The market is tough and yes its rare but just because its white and people on the forum like white doesnt mean its worth 21k!! Seen as tho it has no BMW warranty with it, no guarantees etc I think at 18-19k it might sell but even there its very expensive for a private sale. At BMW with the piece of mind I think it might be worth 20k with some room to manoeuvre.
Anyway a 40-50k model IMO is fine teething problems gone, but would still want a warranty regardless. But yes as long as its been looked after correctly, condition is good, service history is there and there aren't too many owners (as this could be an indicator of problems) I would go for it.
Mechanically there arent really any problems worth worrying about. I would worry more about the trim it does not ware well at all for some reason, and I would expect quite a lot of wear at 70+k mine is at 51k and does have a little ware but nothing that cant be sorted, like drivers bolster etc.
Thing is most things cant be brought back to life with minimal money but depends if you want the hassle.
As for the white M for sale. Didnt want to say on the thread but it is overpriced even for a white M. The market is tough and yes its rare but just because its white and people on the forum like white doesnt mean its worth 21k!! Seen as tho it has no BMW warranty with it, no guarantees etc I think at 18-19k it might sell but even there its very expensive for a private sale. At BMW with the piece of mind I think it might be worth 20k with some room to manoeuvre.
tomscott said:
Spot on Tom. I'd say the warranty is essential, and if buying privately, factor getting one into your budget. Especially on an M or Alpina where there's a premium to be paid in parts and the dealers see you as a walking wallet.
I think whilst the M can be driven everyday, a large proportion of owners have these as second/third etc cars. That means the usual benchmarks of 10-12k pa average mileage for a normal everyday runabout don't really apply. I'd say 6-8k pa is more likely to be average mileage for an M (in value/pricing terms).
You don't really need to worry about trim. I ran 91k miles on my last Zed and the trim held up fine. Maybe the seat bolster will need some TLC and perhaps the rest of the drivers seat but the rest should be ok.
You don't really need to worry about trim. I ran 91k miles on my last Zed and the trim held up fine. Maybe the seat bolster will need some TLC and perhaps the rest of the drivers seat but the rest should be ok.
Stuart Truman said:
Mmmm another cost to consider then :0) but makes sense..... Is there a post that clearly explains when and when not BMW will agree to warranty the car? So for instance if it's full BMW history but services say 4x in 6 years due to mileage would they still cover that?
Ye your completely right Original Guvnor, but they are designed as the everyday fast car so doing that kind of milage is possible as there are a few on the market with high milage. But like you say a lot of people including most on here do use them as weekend toys or second cars keeping the milage to around 6k.
With the warranty every car is different, but if your car has been looked after strictly by BMW there will be no issue. But the warranty changes as milage piles on, will be looking at 600-800PA depending on age/milage.
Good thing atm is that BMW are offering 2 year warranties on all M cars (with a push they don't advertise this on every example) I have written this on many threads but I will tell you my experience.
I paid the BMW premium for my car which was around £1500 over private sale but managed to haggle a £500 discount. The car was about ready for Insp II, tyres all round & brake pads. They did all of this for free with the inspection II costing around £900, full set of Mich Pilots which are around £1100 and pads say £150. Also got a 2 year warranty by pushing say thats worth £800 a year £1600. The wheels also needed a full refurb and they did this too an Extra £400. Obviously these are all costs I would have had to swallow myself if I had bought the car privately and some of these reasons are why people sell their cars privately then the money you save buying privately can quickly mount back up and more than BMW prices. It also didnt cost BMW this amount to do but it would have cost me that much so was worth it in my example.
The car also had a few issue in the first 3 months which were all sorted under warranty at a cost of £1500 in parts before labour. The warranty pays for itself but it is obviously a gamble. But say I paid £16k private for my car (which is probably what the car was worth private) these costs (£4150 for above + £1500 warranty work) after sale would have mounted to £21,650.
There are a lot of hidden costs in private sale so extra care is needed. Small things can cost a lot and the M tax adds to this. Obviously as a car hunter and fourumite you will know what to look for and the £16k private sale price in my case would have been haggled down to free costs of maintenance. But at the end of the day I didn't have to worry because it was all done for me before the car was picked up. The warranty work I had done wasn't bad either had a problem with one of the windows and that escalated by the replacement of a few components. Since then completely trouble free.
So all in all depends what your budget is and there are some awesome cars out there privately just make sure they are ready to drive away and be fine so there aren't big costs to pay in 3-6 months time. Hope this helps
With the warranty every car is different, but if your car has been looked after strictly by BMW there will be no issue. But the warranty changes as milage piles on, will be looking at 600-800PA depending on age/milage.
Good thing atm is that BMW are offering 2 year warranties on all M cars (with a push they don't advertise this on every example) I have written this on many threads but I will tell you my experience.
I paid the BMW premium for my car which was around £1500 over private sale but managed to haggle a £500 discount. The car was about ready for Insp II, tyres all round & brake pads. They did all of this for free with the inspection II costing around £900, full set of Mich Pilots which are around £1100 and pads say £150. Also got a 2 year warranty by pushing say thats worth £800 a year £1600. The wheels also needed a full refurb and they did this too an Extra £400. Obviously these are all costs I would have had to swallow myself if I had bought the car privately and some of these reasons are why people sell their cars privately then the money you save buying privately can quickly mount back up and more than BMW prices. It also didnt cost BMW this amount to do but it would have cost me that much so was worth it in my example.
The car also had a few issue in the first 3 months which were all sorted under warranty at a cost of £1500 in parts before labour. The warranty pays for itself but it is obviously a gamble. But say I paid £16k private for my car (which is probably what the car was worth private) these costs (£4150 for above + £1500 warranty work) after sale would have mounted to £21,650.
There are a lot of hidden costs in private sale so extra care is needed. Small things can cost a lot and the M tax adds to this. Obviously as a car hunter and fourumite you will know what to look for and the £16k private sale price in my case would have been haggled down to free costs of maintenance. But at the end of the day I didn't have to worry because it was all done for me before the car was picked up. The warranty work I had done wasn't bad either had a problem with one of the windows and that escalated by the replacement of a few components. Since then completely trouble free.
So all in all depends what your budget is and there are some awesome cars out there privately just make sure they are ready to drive away and be fine so there aren't big costs to pay in 3-6 months time. Hope this helps
The consideration of an M's mileage being high lays entirely in the eyes of the owner as no question the car will run for a lot of miles potentially.
To sell an M though? Thats a different subject.
People have commented saying they look at condition and ownership as priority over the numbers on the clock but on the recent search for my car i saw very tidy 'high miles' (50/60k) cars sitting advertised for months.
The majority of buyers are not interested in Z4M's as a long term prospect and would like a car they can shift easily in 12 months.
Theres always the theory of buy cheap and you can sell cheap - less lost. But, cheap is usually only a couple grand less which may be a false economy if you cant get rid of the thing after your done with it.
To sell an M though? Thats a different subject.
People have commented saying they look at condition and ownership as priority over the numbers on the clock but on the recent search for my car i saw very tidy 'high miles' (50/60k) cars sitting advertised for months.
The majority of buyers are not interested in Z4M's as a long term prospect and would like a car they can shift easily in 12 months.
Theres always the theory of buy cheap and you can sell cheap - less lost. But, cheap is usually only a couple grand less which may be a false economy if you cant get rid of the thing after your done with it.
As a rule of thumb I use (in general / for all cars):
Low Mileage - Less than 5k per annum
Medium Mileage - Between 5k and 9k per annum
High Mileage - Greater than 9k per annum
Low Mileage - Less than 5k per annum
Medium Mileage - Between 5k and 9k per annum
High Mileage - Greater than 9k per annum
On a non M I consider 12k-15k miles per year to be average and wouldn't be put off. On an M i'd consider slightly less at 10k-12k miles. I'd rather have something that has been driven than sat in a garage with any car that wasn't a vintage classic of some sort. The Z4Ms are now cracking on in years (despite not looking it), you've got to expect them to have a few thousand on them. 60k miles isn't an unreasonable expectation, there was another poster who had restricted himself to under 40k and that seemed silly to me with cars of minimum 4 years old.
People do get massively paranoid about potential maintenance and repair bills with M cars but when the cars get a bit older it's not so much of a problem. The Z4M shares many parts with the E46 M3 of which there are thousands about and reconditioned parts and breakers are plentiful. Most good indies also have a good knowledge of the cars. A friend of mine recently replaced the gearbox in his E46 M3 with a reconditioned one via an indie for less than £800 and that included all labour for the fitting.
Depending on the amount of miles you do, whether it's a main driver or not and what gets covered I'd even question the usefulness of a warranty. It often makes more sense to buy with a financial cushion for any potential big repair that may rear it's ugly head.
People do get massively paranoid about potential maintenance and repair bills with M cars but when the cars get a bit older it's not so much of a problem. The Z4M shares many parts with the E46 M3 of which there are thousands about and reconditioned parts and breakers are plentiful. Most good indies also have a good knowledge of the cars. A friend of mine recently replaced the gearbox in his E46 M3 with a reconditioned one via an indie for less than £800 and that included all labour for the fitting.
Depending on the amount of miles you do, whether it's a main driver or not and what gets covered I'd even question the usefulness of a warranty. It often makes more sense to buy with a financial cushion for any potential big repair that may rear it's ugly head.
I'll declare an interest as I bought a warranty and it's paid me back in spades. Sticky steering resolved with a new steering column and 3 PDC sensors replaced. Cost of warranty £980 (Alpina tax) paid out so far, £2300 plus
If I'd bought AUC I would have still paid for the warranty in the dealer price. If I add up what I saved in the asking price of the car plus what I've spent in warranty plus fettling I'm a little over what the previous owner was asking for the car.
So quite aligned to what Tom was saying in terms of added costs
If I'd bought AUC I would have still paid for the warranty in the dealer price. If I add up what I saved in the asking price of the car plus what I've spent in warranty plus fettling I'm a little over what the previous owner was asking for the car.
So quite aligned to what Tom was saying in terms of added costs
The UK in particular are TOTALLY obsessed with low miles. Cars are designed to be used - use them! Mainland Europe and the US aren't like that.
I love the fact that the bloke in evo magazine owns a Lambo Murcielago that's covered approx 260k miles, most of them on track as a "supercar experience" car. It's worn it well from reading the updates, so I'd imagine a 100k mile Z4M to be absolutely fine if it's looked after.
I love the fact that the bloke in evo magazine owns a Lambo Murcielago that's covered approx 260k miles, most of them on track as a "supercar experience" car. It's worn it well from reading the updates, so I'd imagine a 100k mile Z4M to be absolutely fine if it's looked after.
