Are my Pagid Pads almost at the end of their life?

[Franzino]

I came back from a track day last week and I noticed that my front AP discs looked a little different with a darker area on both front AP rotors. When braking on that track day I did not notice anything strange in braking feel or braking noise. Tomorrow I was planning to go to the Ring. Today I took of the front wheels to have a look at the wear of my brake pads (Pagid Blue / RS 4-2). There is no wear indicator with the Pagid pads, so how do you know when they are at nearing the end of their life? I don't want to damage my rotors. There is now 0,5mm (0,2 inches) of brake pad left from the metal side. Are they at the end of their life and how do I know when it's time to change my pads (before they damage my rotors).

Pictures are coming...

 

[mmm-five]

The colour on the discs might just be pad deposits.

Have you checked all your pads or just the outer pad? I ask as I find the inner pad wears more quickly than the outer, so your inner pad may be almost gone - on OEM calipers though, so the AP calipers may address that issue.

I tend to carry a spare set of pads with me when I go to the 'Ring as it's almost impossible to get a set on a weekend - especially a public holiday weekend.

 

[Franzino]

I took of both front wheels and I have checked the inner an outher pad inside the front calipers. On both sides there is 0,5mm left on the pads. How many mm is considerd the end of the pad life?

 

[Beedub]

the darker colour is exactly what you want, its a pad layer transfer...... this what we actually try to achieve during the bed in process, my rotors are completely covered in that darker material.... this is exactly what you want..... Re the minimum depth on the pad material, i have no idea, i do regular visual inspections, but if youve managed to wear pagid blues down in 6 months ill be shocked, then again if your doing a large amount of trackdays i guess its possible......

 

[Beedub]

i usually replace the pads when they are the same thickness as the backing plates an un scientific approach that gives me plenty of leeway......

 

[Franzino]

i usually replace the pads when they are the same thickness as the backing plates an un scientific approach that gives me plenty of leeway......

Same thickness as backing plates? Then there is no pad material left anymore.. Wow that's almost metal (backing plate) to metal (rotor) you are having...and the risk of damaging your rotors.

Some pictures of my current Pagid pads and AP rotors (front wheels).

 

[Franzino]

but if youve managed to wear pagid blues down in 6 months ill be shocked, then again if your doing a large amount of trackdays i guess its possible......

I only did 4 trackdays since the pads were fitted some 6 months ago...

 

[mmm-five]

Beedub's just using the thickness of the backing plate as a guide, so that when the pad looks the same thickness as the backing plate then it's time to change the pads.

Backing plate = 5mm
Pad = 5mm
Total = 10mm

Although I've been surprised in the past at just how much braking performance some backing plates give

 

[Beedub]

Beedub's just using the thickness of the backing plate as a guide, so that when the pad looks the same thickness as the backing plate then it's time to change the pads.

Backing plate = 5mm
Pad = 5mm
Total = 10mm

Although I've been surprised in the past at just how much braking performance some backing plates give

Arhhh m5 understands......lol... Its not that hard ...... I would never risk those rotors... They are very expensive.


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[Beedub]

Btw awesome pad transfer.... Your brakes must feel great...

How are u finding them now??


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[Beedub]

Thats a great wear on those pads as well..... Nice and even change them now.... They look the same thickness as the backing plate. What pad you thinking???


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[Franzino]

Beedub's just using the thickness of the backing plate as a guide, so that when the pad looks the same thickness as the backing plate then it's time to change the pads.

Backing plate = 5mm
Pad = 5mm
Total = 10mm

Although I've been surprised in the past at just how much braking performance some backing plates give

Oops; now I understand At this point the pad is the same thickness as the backing plate... Damn, then I managed to wear the front Pagid pads in 6 months time (3 trackdays, 2 ring trips, some fast road driving and the occasional slow winter drive). I wanted to go to the ring today and do 3 laps. I don't have any spare pads and don't want to risk damaging my rotors, so it's probably better I don't go today. Or is there little life in them for just today..?

 

[Franzino]

Thats a great wear on those pads as well..... Nice and even change them now.... They look the same thickness as the backing plate. What pad you thinking???

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The wear of the front pads is perfectly even on both the inner and outher pad. I still don't understand why my Pagids (blue) keep making noise and when on your car they are completely silent. After a trackday my brakes are completely silent. But one week later they squeal again (better then before when they were new, but still a light annoying squeal).

Did you use copper grease on the back of your pads when installing them? And would this reduce the squealing (or what else is the use of the copper grease for on brakes?) Some people say that copper grease can damage the dust seals on the calipers.

On that same VW/Audi forum I also read this;

When replacing the brake pads; it is good practice to open the bleed nipple when you push the piston back. Some ABS systems get upset if you don't, and there is a (small) risk of inverting the seals in the master cylinder. I usually change the brake fluid at the same time as the pads.

When you change your brake pads on your AP's, do you open the bleeding nipples?

I don't know what pads I'm going to use this time. Most of the time my Z4M gets driven on the street with the top down. In one year time; I do arround 12 intensive driving days; 5 trackdays and 7 trips to the ring.

The brake pad options that I'm thinking about;
1) change the front pads back into Pagid RS 4-2 Blue (and live with the light squeal)
2) change all the pads into Pagid RS-14 Black (track pad option for Lotus)
3) change all the pads into Pagid RS5 Blue
http://www.pagid-brake-pads.co.uk/products/

With option 2 & 3 I have no idea how much squealing noise they are going to make when comparing to the Pagid RS 4-2 and how they preform on the street? But RS5 & RS-14 have more initial bite then the RS 4-2 and some better performane on track. I would like to have some more intial bite. Pagid Yellow is IMO to extreme for road use...

 

[Beedub]

one more trackday on those should be fine, just keep an eye on them after every few laps during cool downs..... really pleased to see that wear to be honest... we are really going to be able to get the maximum from our pads...

wow awesome work wearing those pagids down...... yup mine are silent in operation... strangely have now started making noise only when they are really hot..... every other instance they are silent.... Great pads, so pleased with mine.... AP racing having their own brand of pads, i tired a set recently and was genuinely impressed... they have everything to match the current top range of brake pads, .... i think the APF404 is the pagid blue type pad but aps own..... i may try these next as they are REALLY well priced, pagid are as good as it gets when it comes to brake pads but jesus they water the eyes in the price department..... i find the pagid blue the perfect compromise for track and road work, they work REALLy well in both respects and are gentle of the rotors..... ive never been able to fade them so far..... even on full fat power mode on an all day sprint session.....

i dont apply any grease to the pads, the AP instructions advice against it..... just for your info are you anti rattle shims located in the correct way..... it took me a while looking at the instructions but i could see these could be easily installed incorrectly.......

Re your squeal issue i think that very first bed in is very important when it comes to these track pads......

 

[ga41]

Dude that's 5mm, not 0.5mm as you originally posted. 0.5mm would almost be scraping the backing plate! I swap mine at around 5-10mm myself. Easy DIY job.

 

[Beedub]

even easier on the BBKs, they simply drop in the top now.... it takes longer to jack the car than changing the pads......

OP opening the bleed nipples during a pad change??? i really dont think that is needed, just open the fluid cap so the level can rise when you squeeze the pistons back in......

 

[Franzino]

Dude that's 5mm, not 0.5mm as you originally posted. 0.5mm would almost be scraping the backing plate! I swap mine at around 5-10mm myself. Easy DIY job.

My mistake.... I wanted to type 0,5cm or 5mm... 0,5mm is indeed impossible

 

[ga41]

even easier on the BBKs, they simply drop in the top now.... it takes longer to jack the car than changing the pads......

OP opening the bleed nipples during a pad change??? i really dont think that is needed, just open the fluid cap so the level can rise when you squeeze the pistons back in......

What he said.

 

[Franzino]

Btw awesome pad transfer.... Your brakes must feel great...

How are u finding them now??

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IMO; On the street the difference is not that big in comparison with the oem Z4M brakes. I think fitting a BBK for street driving is a waste of money. But that was not the reason why I bought them, the only reason was for the occasional track driving.

On the track the difference is night and day. I never had any fading issues... I did Ecuyer, Zolder, Francorchamps, The ring without any problems. Never had any scary moments that the brakes did not preform as I was expecting. I need to learn the new breaking points, because I can brake later. Sometimes after a track day, my steering wheels shakes a little when I brake on the way home. Some days later it disappear. Maybe some excessive left over brake pad material that needs to be flattened. I also noticed that on certain tracks my front tyres pick up loads of rubber and that there is a little shake in my steering wheel when driving home. When I remove these fat pieces of rubber everything turn to normal.

So; 6 month later I'm very pleased with my AP brakes and I'm happy with my purchase... Night and day difference when they were first fitted under my car, then they were total crap and I was thinking what the hell have I bought! Also the bleeding nipples stopped leaking and are completely dry for months now. Two thing would make them absolutely awesome; a little more initial bite and less squealing on the road :wink:

 

[Beedub]

Arhh fran sadly we cant have it all.....
But yes anyone with these for street work has to much money..... The stock brakes for street work are more then enough....




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