Alpina Oil usage

[Rich-hill]

Morning all.

Just checking my oil level this morning and it seems to have dropped dratsdically the last 1,500 miles.

What's your avaerge usage?

Also does anyone know the volume of oil that covers the block on the dip stick?

By this I mean if it's at the base of the rectangular block (minimum) how much oil is required to reach the top (maximum)

 

[Number5]

Rich,

I beleive Alpina quote about 1ltr/1500 miles but some people are nearer 800/900 on older high mileage cars. I'm around 1200 i think but that was using 0w30. I've recently switched to 5w40 and the usage has slowed down noticably. Also I've lost the occasional puffs of visible smoke on over-run.

There is a thread on here by Perry i think quoting Alpina's stance on the switch of oil away from 0w30, which I'll try and find the link for later.

 

[markeg]

Mine switched to 10w60 when it reached 80k miles - the Alpina bulletin basically recommends the standard 00w30 or 10w60, but I was informed that 10w60 is better at the higher mileage.

The downside is that you lose some power due to the thicker oil (again, its not something I've noticed as I don't "rag" #108), but the upside is my oil consumption is very low - I've done around 5000 miles since the last service and only topped up with around 0.5 ltr.

Oh, and the Alpina bulletin:

 

[Rich-hill]

Thank you for the reply guys.

Reference to the dip stick, any idea the difference between min and max (the rectangular block) in terms of volume?

I'm currently at the bottom of it, but don't know if a litre would be too much to pop in?

 

[markeg]

Thank you for the reply guys.

Reference to the dip stick, any idea the difference between min and max (the rectangular block) in terms of volume?

I'm currently at the bottom of it, but don't know if a litre would be too much to pop in?

Nope, 1 litre should be fine - I think its more around the 2 litre mark. Just add half, check, then add the remainder if needed.

 

[Rich-hill]

Brilliant thank you!!

I was driving this morning and randomly had a loud beep.
Next time I started the ignition I got the same.

Both occasions had no warning lights on though.

I didn't know if that was oil related?

 

[Rich-hill]

Brilliant thank you!!

I was driving this morning and randomly had a loud beep.
Next time I started the ignition I got the same.

Both occasions had no warning lights on though.

I didn't know if that was oil related?

 

[markeg]

Usually the beep is temperature ?

 

[Rich-hill]

I did wonder that. Temp would have been around 5C

 

[markeg]

Yeah, mine pings and the temp flashes if it drops below 5 degrees.

 

[PerryGunn]

You won't get any alerts, visual or audible, related to low oil level on the Alpina as it doesn't have an oil level sensor fitted - that said, if you let it get low enough you might get a very loud alert that there's no oil left :evil:

You have to go 'Old School' and check the dipstick (the one in the engine bay, not the one behind the wheel :wink

 

[Number5]

I believe there's at least 1L between high and low markers so pour away.

 

[Rich-hill]

You won't get any alerts, visual or audible, related to low oil level on the Alpina as it doesn't have an oil level sensor fitted - that said, if you let it get low enough you might get a very loud alert that there's no oil left :evil:

You have to go 'Old School' and check the dipstick (the one in the engine bay, not the one behind the wheel :wink

I was aware of this, however I doubted myself when the autiable beep went off, and obviously by coincidence the oil was at the base of the block.

Topped up now so all should be well

 

[Ewazix]

Whilst appreciating the special mod's on the Alpina this is an Interesting BMW TIS information for dealers on oil consumption in BMW group engines. I'm assuming Alpina modify or perhaps even delete some of the ring sets on the 3.4 conversion so will contribute further to oil consumption maybe?
Full page here http://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/z_series_e85/z4_2.5i_m54_roadst/1_service_information/0__maintenance_and_general_data/2_si__arguments_concerning_engine_oil_consumption_bmw_mini/

Extract paste
"The surface topography of the cylinder liners and piston rings is the primary variable that directly influences engine oil
consumption, as the piston rings do not provide perfect sealing, but rather form a metering mechanism. In the
configuration, there is a conflict of interests between engine oil consumption and friction reduction. The latter has a
direct effect on power output and fuel consumption. With every stroke of the piston, minimal quantities of engine oil
remain on the cylinder walls. These are indispensable for lubricating the piston rings (see lubricating film above). As
the piston moves downwards, the engine oil on the cylinder wall is plays a role in combustion close to the walls and is
then expelled along with the combustion exhaust gases. The higher the engine speed, the greater the effect,
because there are more combustion cycles for each time unit. For this reason, engines with a high-speed concept
(BMW M engines) tend to have higher engine oil consumption than other BMW engines. The same applies to the
lubricating film on the valve stems.........
.... The measurable result in engine oil consumption is primarily influenced by the quality of the fuel used and the driving
profile. For example, if in the winter you drive a lot for short distances (= high fuel entrainment as the evaporation
temperature is mostly only reached briefly) and then a long distance (fuel can then evaporate readily), this journey will
cause a considerable drop in engine oil level. This is not engine oil consumption, but rather a change in engine oil
level caused by the fuel content in the engine oil. Customer complaints are often the result of this effect. It can
happen that the engine oil level drops by more than 1 litre after driving just a few hundred kilometres. Moreover, the
measuring system on some engines (dipstick/QLT) have a tolerance of up to 0.3 litres. But evaporated particles of oil also escape through the crankcase ventilation (expulsion level technically never
100 %) and plays a role in combustion with the intake air. Configuration is especially difficult here. On the one hand,
the engine oil should be expelled as completely as possible. On the other hand, crankcase pressure requirements
must be satisfied. Other expulsion systems only work optimally with a certain gas throughput, the expulsion effect
deteriorating with greater or lesser gas volumes. Summary It is a technical necessity that very combustion engine consumes engine oil. The level of the engine oil consumption
is greatly influenced by driving style and by the fuel used.

Nothing to do with my humble M54 but this sort of thing just interests me 8)

 

[Number5]

Interesting read, thanks Ewazix

 

[markeg]

Interesting read, thanks Ewazix

+1

 

[Rich-hill]

That is interesting.

I've always wondered where it goes, without actually leaking, and why some engines use loads and others don't.

My old Z4 3.0si never used any oil in the 2 years I had it, as a daily driver covering approx 28,000 miles.

The Alpina seems to have used 2 litres in less than 3,000 miles

 

[derin100]

Mine switched to 10w60 when it reached 80k miles - the Alpina bulletin basically recommends the standard 00w30 or 10w60, but I was informed that 10w60 is better at the higher mileage.

The downside is that you lose some power due to the thicker oil (again, its not something I've noticed as I don't "rag" #108), but the upside is my oil consumption is very low - I've done around 5000 miles since the last service and only topped up with around 0.5 ltr.

Oh, and the Alpina bulletin:

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm about to have an Oil Service done on the Alpina and that bulletin has got me confused as to which oil to buy.

I assumed on initial reading that the correct oil was Castrol Edge 0W -30.

On re-reading the bulletin it also says Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60 and lists the Roadster S amongst those cars?
Does this just mean that "as an alternative to 0W-30, TWS Motorsport 10W-60 could beused" ?

In other words, which is the correct oil?

Thanks

 

[PerryGunn]

Alpina recommend 0w30 or 10w60 I've just cut'n'pasted this from an earlier thread on the subject which explains things - in reality anything between the two that meets BMW LL04 spec should still be fine

Hmm. Appears they've changed their tune - when I asked, I was told that whilst it had always been Sytner's policy to recommend 10w60 for high mileage roadsters, when the document came out they said that they were now recommending it for all roadster engines in line with Alpina's recommendations and not just high mileage/excessive consumption ones. I had questioned which oil was best after a discussion with Ade, then with the Sytner's service lead, after I had already switched to 10w60 on their recommendation.

Having said that, I don't think I would switch back. I've had no issues with excessive consumption, engine performs as well as it always has, and have not seen any difference in mpg.

Annoying when two people ask the same question and get different answers although it's possible that the person I spoke to was quoting the old line on oil. I think it's the 'We recommend also...' line that causes the confusion as it implies that 10w60 is an alternative oil for the cars in the list, if it read 'For the following cars we recommend...' then there'd be no confusion - I know you speak German so is it less ambiguous in the German text?

I had a similar discussion with Ade and his opinion was that 10w60 was a bit thick for the oil pathways in the B3s engine hence why, because of his high oil consumption issues, he had discussions with people who really 'know their oil' and settled on something around 5w40 (IIRC it was a mix of a couple of grades) as a good compromise.

#320's tucked away for the winter now but once I'm back from holiday I think I'll send an email to Axel Rimpler to see if he can clarify Alpina's recommendation.

Well I found time to send Axel an email before I went on holiday and got home to find that I'd received the reply quoted below - in short it looks like ALPINA are happy for either grade of oil to be used and leave the customer to decide which is the most appropriate for their engine.

Dear Mr. Gunn,

thank you very much for your e-mail.

We recommend Longlife 04 specification for the BMW ALPINA B3 S and BMW ALPINA Roadster S or the special 10W-60 oil:
Castrol Edge Professional1) SAE 10W-60 Castrol Limited
Castrol EDGE SAE 10W-60 Castrol Limited

For the longlife 04, we recommend:
Castrol Edge Professional LL04 SAE 0W-30 Castrol Limited

Best regards

Axel Rimpler
Leiter Produktion / Head of Production
Leiter Kundendienst / Head of Customer Service
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALPINA Burkard Bovensiepen GmbH + Co. KG
Alpenstraße 35-37
D - 86807 Buchloe

So, to me at least, it looks like Sytner were pretty accurate when they said

that Alpina support the use of either grade of oil with the thicker oil being particularly suitable for higher-mileage engines or engines that exhibit excessive oil consumption. They added that if the owner didn't express a preference they would now use 10w60 at a service as the majority of B3S engines consume more oil as they get older/higher mileage

 

[derin100]

Thank you, Perry !