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A ridiculously cheap clutch mod that has transformed my E85 driving experience!

Conrod

Member
Didcot, Oxfordshire
Evening all.

When I acquired my E85 last year I found it difficult to get consistent smooth gear changes from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd. The abomination known as the Clutch Delay Valve was speedily removed, and although it improved things the clutch still didn't feel right, but I just put it down to a quirk of the car.

My son finally had the chance to drive it yesterday, and he straight away commented on the clutch - so I decided I now had to get to the bottom of it!

The problem is that there is far too much travel on the pedal between the fully depressed position and the biting point. Depending on the seat position, I often found my left heel lifting off the floor during gear changes, which is what was causing the inconsistent clutch control.

The clutch pedal stop is a plastic disc with an M10 thread, which screws into a metal threaded hole in the floor. I figured the solution would be to lengthen it in order to reduce this excess travel, and this proved to be ridiculously simple.

I had some 30mm M10 hex sided connector nuts which I'm using for some mods to the seat runners (more on that when I've finished!). I used a chop saw to cut it down to 20mm, then screwed the pedal stop into it (after cutting off the tapered end which serves no useful purpose). I screwed a 30mm length of M10 threaded rod into the other end, followed by an M10 nut to lock against the connector nut. I then refitted this modified pedal stop into the threaded hole.

After testing that there was still a safe margin of travel between the fully depressed and the biting point, I set off for a test drive.

The difference was absolutely phenomenal - the clutch is now exactly as it should be! The reduced travel also means that I can move the seat back more, which will further help with my seat runner mods.

I aim to get some half height M10 nuts so that I can make the length of the pedal stop adjustable, and will post some photos when I've finished the job.

This has to be the cheapest and most rewarding mod I've ever made to a car! :)
 
I also removed the CDV and installed an adjustable clutch pedal stop. It makes a huge difference!
 
Yep, I have a clutch stop too, I know you can rustle one up fairly cheaply but you can also buy them ready to use for about 15 quid on ebay, I bought this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254978733765?hash=item3b5deab6c5:g:yoAAAOSwOGtgqOcQ
 
mr.tourette said:
Yep, I have a clutch stop too, I know you can rustle one up fairly cheaply but you can also buy them ready to use for about 15 quid on ebay, I bought this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254978733765?hash=item3b5deab6c5:g:yoAAAOSwOGtgqOcQ

I ordered one of these this morning and the seller asked if I really wanted the Z4M type or regular Z4 type as they are slightly different. I have a regular Z4 and advised him of that fact. Kind of the seller to take time out and make sure I got the right product. He also said there has been a bit of a sales surge :) . I had another look on ebay and found this for regular Z4s and thought it may help out some people. I see they a sell a large range of stops including the E89 and other BMWs https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254974452955?hash=item3b5da964db:g:pNgAAOSw85hgqOiL
 
I had the same experience with the seller (we have 2 Z4M Coupes one my own and one coming up for sale) and indeed it was nice of him to check. He said he had had a run on them, I pointed him at this thread to explain why :)

@conrod - I am quite local to you commuting between Kidlington and Newbury - thanks for the tip, I love the Z4M except for the clutch!
 
hashluck said:
I had the same experience with the seller (we have 2 Z4M Coupes one my own and one coming up for sale) and indeed it was nice of him to check. He said he had had a run on them, I pointed him at this thread to explain why :)

@conrod - I am quite local to you commuting between Kidlington and Newbury - thanks for the tip, I love the Z4M except for the clutch!
I messaged the seller yesterday to see if he sold a z4 e85 specific one,he messaged me back quickly to say he did but couldnt post a link in the message.
I have now ordered one. :thumbsup:
 
Rocket said:
mr.tourette said:
Yep, I have a clutch stop too, I know you can rustle one up fairly cheaply but you can also buy them ready to use for about 15 quid on ebay, I bought this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254978733765?hash=item3b5deab6c5:g:yoAAAOSwOGtgqOcQ
:thumbsup:
I ordered one of these this morning and the seller asked if I really wanted the Z4M type or regular Z4 type as they are slightly different. I have a regular Z4 and advised him of that fact. Kind of the seller to take time out and make sure I got the right product. He also said there has been a bit of a sales surge :) . I had another look on ebay and found this for regular Z4s and thought it may help out some people. I see they a sell a large range of stops including the E89 and other BMWs https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254974452955?hash=item3b5da964db:g:pNgAAOSw85hgqOiL

The seller is great, i only linked that one because its all he had listed at the time.. mine is for the e89 and he actually made more than one for me as a development one as he didn't actually make one for the e89, he'd actually made 3 until I was happy with sizing and fit
 
portculisz4 said:
Please educate me on this 'Clutch Delay Valve', ie where is it located and how do you remove it ??

See here and this thread.

Regarding the eBay seller suddenly witnessing a surge in sales - a similar thing happened when I spotted an eBay seller offering NOS Aston Martin DB7 fly-off handbrake levers a few years ago. I realised that they were identical to those used on the Jaguar XJS, which are difficult to get hold of secondhand and are used in various AC Cobra replicas. After posting the link on the UK Cobra Club forum, they quickly ran out of stock (60+), and must have been wondering why on earth the world and his wife suddenly wanted a DB7 handbrake lever! :D

Back to the clutch stop. One issue with all of the extended ones I've seen is that they have flat tops. This works for the standard one, but once you lengthen it the circular plate on the clutch pedal is now at an angle to the clutch stop plate, which I guess probably isn't too much of an issue. However, it also means that a lateral stress is now placed on the clutch stop shaft, which might be an issue for those that have plastic threads. So a rounded top would be better.

I've already designed my Mk2 version - an M10 coach bolt (with a domed top), with a cut down double yellow dot squash ball stuck on top for cushioning. Total cost - 20p for the bolt and M10 nut, plus an old used squash ball that's been lying around in a drawer for donkey's years! I'll cut the bolt down to the appropriate length tomorrow, and will post some photos.
 
Alan, like many I am very interested in your threads and keen to do a DIY version myself. Can you tell me in either of your fixes (Mk1 or Mk2) what you increased the stop length by ?? For your first fix my guess would be about 25mm, am I on the right path ?? Your comment on the change of angle of the head of the stop is interesting, the design of the ebay versions must also suffer from the same change of angle discontinuity but do not seem to compensate for it.
 
Hi again.

Change of plan - my son informed me that my DIY services weren't required today after all, so I've completed the Mk2 pedal stop!

Here are the basic components (an M10 coach bolt and an old squash ball) and the completed item:

Clutch Pedal Stop.jpg

The lighting doesn't really show it, but the inner surface of the squash ball is an exact fit for the domed head of the bolt - they're bonded together with contact adhesive.

The shortest M10 bolt length commonly available seems to be 50mm - mine was 65mm and I cut it down to 40mm (from the underside of the head to the end of the bolt). This gives a nice level of adustment by varying how far the thread is screwed in before the lock nut is tightened.

The original stop has a 9mm deep head, plus a further 17mm (10mm M10 thread plus a 7mm taper). So the operative length is 9mm. The modified stop has an overall length of 50mm. There is around 17mm of thread depth in the floor socket, so that gives an operational length of 33mm (fully screwed into the socket) to 45mm (screwed 5mm into the socket). The difference in pedal travel is, of course, greater than this as the pedal is further away from the fulcrum than the stop.

The original has joined the CDV in the collection of removed parts that can, if necessary, be refitted. My car is an ultra low mileage example, and I aim to keep all my various mods reversible should I want to return the car to its original standard state. But for as long as I own the car, this is one mod that's definitely staying - the car is now an absolute pleasure to drive. I don't know what BMW were thinking with the large "dead space" and the CDV - I'm guessing the engineer concerned was also responsible for the siting of the hood pump/motor! :wink:
 
Thanks for the photo and the stop length dimensions. You could fill the cut-off squash ball head with a silicone compound (such as bathroom sealant) and solidly seal the coach bolt head into it.
 
I have one of these but it's bigger (and heavier) than it needs to be.
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Gift-Ideas/BimmerWorld-Junior-Puck-Clutch-Stop.html
ClutchStop_WM.jpeg

Be warned, when adjusting, that cold and hot clutch travel is different. For a perfect setup, do it after some hard driving :driving:
 
Its something that was bothering me since i got the car.. so happy i saw this thread. i have put an order in, thank you sir :thumbsup:
 
Whether you take the DIY or off-the-shelf approach, it's a very cheap mod and I'm pretty sure many people will feel the difference. Prior to making this mod I was unaware of previous threads on this subject and that aftermarket stops even existed! :wink:

Regarding Liam's comment about the biting point moving with temperature, I too have seen comments from various sources about this. I can't quite figure out what might cause this, but I guess it could be worn linkages, leaking slave/master cylinder seals, old brake fluid or air in the system. Anyway, following Liam's advice I took mine out for a spirited drive yesterday, just to check! :thumbsup:

Another benefit of removing the clutch pedal dead space is that I have been able to move the seat further back. As I mentioned previously, I'm also in the process of fitting seat runner spacers to improve thigh and lumbar support. The spacers themselves are now fitted, but having the front of the runners raised 30mm off the floor looks odd. I'm currently finalising the design of some 3D-printed blocks to fit around the spacers to fill the gap and improve the appearance. When I've finished I'll post details of the components used (safety being a prime design aim) and the STL files for the blocks.
 
Conrod said:
Regarding Liam's comment about the biting point moving with temperature, I too have seen comments from various sources about this. I can't quite figure out what might cause this
I always put it down to thermal expansion, as you've got the entire clutch hydraulic system next to the engine/gearbox.

https://www.q8oils.com/general-industry/hydraulic-oil-compressibility-what-is-it-and-what-are-the-risks/
 
Interesting article Liam.

The funny thing is that my previous toy was a Cobra replica with a 383ci (6.3l) Chevy V8, which produced bucketloads of heat under the bonnet. The clutch and brake master cylinders and the fluid reservoir were all sited near the RH bank of headers, but I never experienced any movement of the clutch biting point. Mind you, the hydraulic brake light switch was a consumable item, as it was sited immediately above the RH headers and only around 20 cms away! :o
 
Oh, and for good measure the clutch slave cylinder was sited in the hot airflow stream from the LH bank of heaters! :wink:
 
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