Z4M coupe v Porsche 911 997.1 C2S comparison.

stevo///m3 · Post by **stevo///m3** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:02 pm

All extremely interesting observations above and I'm especially interested in the direct comparison from, inter alia, Nick having both simultaneously. Combination of the P-car fix cost in anything earlier than a 997.2, cabin noise and brutish characteristics swing it for me (well, that and budget, rarity and shape). Reliable TVR indeed.
Stevo

abar121 · Post by **abar121** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:29 pm

Another ex 911 owner here, also I have quite a bit of experience driving 996s, 997.1/2 and both iterations of the 991.

For me the non GT3 996/7s lack drama and some character compared to the Z4M and it's S54 motor. I would class the S54 inline with the GT1/993 based GT3 engines for sound, appeal and throttle response. An X51 (powerkit), equipped 996/7 is a good match though, breathing a lot better at higher revs.

I was at a 997.1 launch event in Chobham back in the nougties and got to drive a stock 997 3.6 and a fully optioned 997.1C2S model. Both lovely cars, but it was actually the non-S model that was more fluid, involving and adjustable on 18" wheels and no PASM etc!

If you can find one, the 997.2 C2 is a real gem, being quite a bit lighter than the S models, with it's aluminium doors as standard. They were fitted to scrape under the 225g/km barrier.

All lovely cars and I spent a long time looking for a replacement for my 993C2. A 997 GT3 with front lift kit came closest, maybe I've missed the boat with that one now.

Just to add, a friend both a Z4M Coupe and a lovely 996 MK1 GT3. Both in rude health and made for a fantastic comparison. Surprisingly, the Z4M was just a little quicker on acceleration and would always edge away.

jimmybell · Post by **jimmybell** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:02 pm

Interesting points - i guess not a huge surprise, though i wonder how an "I own both 991 GT3 and Z4MC" review might differ

ZermattV · Post by **ZermattV** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:16 pm

I thought I'd miss my Z4M when I bought the 997.2 ... Honestly the Z4M is a great car but I've not really missed it the way I thought I would do .
I don't buy into the has to be a GT3 to be special business either .

Beedub · Post by **Beedub** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:20 pm

between the z4m, macan and fiesta St i feel quite blessed tbh.... each offering a different vibe.

Fiesta is by far the best hot hatch I've owned and within my top 3 fave cars view owned.. its like bang upto date r5 GTT.

abar121 · Post by **abar121** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:27 pm

I've not driven a 991 GT3 as yet. I would hope the EPAS has at least some feel. Driving a 718S on track is weird, you can't feel anything at all. Nor on a 991.2 C2S. Zero, Nada.

No doubt the engine would be wonderful though.

The base 718 is quite interesting and now quite a quick car. It gained the most by by being turbo'd and is now probably the only Porsche you ever need, for a pretty bargain price tag - f you go sensible with the options. Listed as 5.1 to sixty and 170mph, but actually quicker than the old S model and probably quite close to a Z4M in a straight line. You also get GT4 / Turbo based front/rear suspension and rack even on the base model.

It's possible to spec one for low forties with met paint, wheel upgrade and nav. A bargain if you can live with the soundtrack.

ZermattV · Post by **ZermattV** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:55 pm

Beedub wrote:
Fiesta is by far the best hot hatch I've owned and within my top 3 fave cars view owned.. its like bang upto date r5 GTT.

Now you are really talking mate, can't get over how good they are

Beedub · Post by **Beedub** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:14 pm

ZermattV wrote:
Beedub wrote:
Fiesta is by far the best hot hatch I've owned and within my top 3 fave cars view owned.. its like bang upto date r5 GTT.

Now you are really talking mate, can't get over how good they are

i no I've gone on and on about it but its stupidly good, top top top class drivers car. On a typical uk B road that car would leave low end supercars for dead. i also just cant believe just how good it drives.

jimmybell · Post by **jimmybell** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:39 am

718 has had resoundingly negative reviews due to the new engine, specifically.

Machine monkey · Post by **Machine monkey** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:24 am

That's a very interesting informative post Nick I will enjoy reading the rest of this on my way to work.

I have driven a Z4m and found the car better than the standard z4 but only a little bit in a lot of arrears. Witch obviously added up to a big difference overall. And as I was driving a friends car I didn't enjoy the s54 to any where near it's full potential. Infact I had a passenger ride in one and the owner was leaning on it a bit. And I could understand its charm from that.

Beedub · Post by **Beedub** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:15 am

Machine monkey wrote:That's a very interesting informative post Nick I will enjoy reading the rest of this on my way to work.

I have driven a Z4m and found the car better than the standard z4 but only a little bit in a lot of arrears. Witch obviously added up to a big difference overall. And as I was driving a friends car I didn't enjoy the s54 to any where near it's full potential. Infact I had a passenger ride in one and the owner was leaning on it a bit. And I could understand its charm from that.

Too me their was incremental differences, particularly the steering and the feel, the hole car to me feels very different , you really need some decent seat time however on a decent road or on track to really appreciate it!

Machine monkey · Post by **Machine monkey** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:30 am

Beedub wrote:
Machine monkey wrote:That's a very interesting informative post Nick I will enjoy reading the rest of this on my way to work.

I have driven a Z4m and found the car better than the standard z4 but only a little bit in a lot of arrears. Witch obviously added up to a big difference overall. And as I was driving a friends car I didn't enjoy the s54 to any where near it's full potential. Infact I had a passenger ride in one and the owner was leaning on it a bit. And I could understand its charm from that.

Too me their was incremental differences, particularly the steering and the feel, the hole car to me feels very different , you really need some decent seat time however on a decent road or on track to really appreciate it!

To be honest i agree on the steering. The elctric steering on the satndard z4 is rubbish. I am in the middle of changing mine to a hydralic system. All the other things suspensin brakes with the upgrsdes i have done I wouldnt change my car for a standard z4m. And i have no intention of getting rid of mine to much time and love invoveld with it.

abar121 · Post by **abar121** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:47 pm

jimmybell wrote:718 has had resoundingly negative reviews due to the new engine, specifically.

Whilst it's been mentioned, I'm not sure I'd go that far. It did very well in the Autocar Best Driver's car this year, Evo, plus the Motortrend equivalent. They are quick cars, the 718S has been timed at 14 seconds to 200kph, identical to a Cayman GT4. Same around a track too.

I did step out of a C63 into one though and what a dull sounding engine that four pot is. It sounds like a 1970s Honda Goldwing at idle, but with more clatter. Zero steering feel too.

I found the Z4M a huge improvement over the 3400S and 3.0Si Z4s. To be honest, I should have tried one much earlier, but was put off by the cooking Z4s. Fine cars, but quite detached with EPAS, soft chassis and runflats / big wheels.

The Z4M is quite raw and compromised by comparison, but such an event to drive

jimmybell · Post by **jimmybell** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:41 pm

Indeed the sum of small changes often adds up to a very different experience, tho i seem to remember the Evo review not being too favourable - left my mag at home. Fine and very capable car, unexciting engine ('fast' doesn't mean fun!) - I'd personally shoot for previous gen cayman GT4/boxster spyder.

I guess it's subjective too - i mean, for anyone that has no sportscar background (or engine snobbery), it's a fine car indeed.

Trying to replace my Z4MC and C63 (6.2 V8) and .. well, it's just not going to happen :p I predict perhaps AM V12V/991 GT3 and perhaps a more sedate 'daily' to replace the C63 (F80 M3)

I get the impression from reviews the 911 transition to small turbo has been a greater success than the cayman/boxster line.

abar121 · Post by **abar121** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:27 pm

Yeah, the 991.2s do still sound good. I drove a 991 C2S PDK with most of the kit on it. It certainly went well and sounded nice with the sports exhaust.

I wouldn't switch a C63 W204 for one though. I drive a facelift derestricted one quite regularly. Such a wonderful engine with that off beat warble in the background. Sublime! Unlike the Porkers, you can just get in it and drive, without hitting loads of buttons to turn off stop/start / minicab gearbox mode. Manual mode also works properly in the C63, unlike the non-GT3 991s, where it still has a soft and hard kick down present. Really annoying.

I've only briefly driven an M4 which was fun. Probably great on track too. You'll still miss that epic M156 motor though!

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