Z4M coupe v Porsche 911 997.1 C2S comparison.

[nickw6666]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=90915

Recently I posted a question to the group on me trying to decide on selling my Z4MC to buy a 911 997.2 GTS. I test drove the GTS and loved it but found it hard to say goodbye to my Z4MC which I have owned for nearly 9 years!

Some suggested hanging onto both while I evaluated and I decided to take this advice but due to financial 'limitations' I decided to buy instead of the GTS a 2007 997.1 C2S in meteor grey with the 19" Fuchs Alloys from the 997 Sport Classic which makes the car look awesome.

So I now own both cars and have driven them back to back and so far, here are some thoughts on comparison between the two.

The 997.1 C2S is a great package but in some respects, somewhat lacking in fizz compared to the Z4MC.

It is superfast but just not as exciting. I definitely can see why the S54 engine won Engine of the year award in the 3.0-4.0 litre category for 6-years on the trot, beating all of the Porsche engines in this capacity range. It is simply a more charismatic engine which revs faster and stronger and sounds better.

So plus points for the 997.1 are: chassis poise, amazing brakes with rock solid pedal, direct steering, quality feel to interior, pure performance, ride quality on 19" wheels, traction, very good cab forward view.
Minus points for 997.1 for me include: awful driving position with leg swivelled toward centre, anodyne engine, very linear power delivery without feeling of real power surge, terrible tyre noise, fidgety steering (which some say is a quality), slightly flimsy feel to some interior parts, slightly woolly feeling of cable gearshift. Need for N'rated tyres means limited tyre options (no N rating for Michelin PSS).

For Z4MC, plus points include: Ferocious engine with real feeling of power surge, amazing throttle response, strong brakes for first few stops, rock solid chassis feel on the road, stability, super direct and quick steering, engine sound inside cockpit, gearbox feel apart from 1st-2nd gear change thanks to CDV, rarity of car. Standard wheel size takes Michelin PSS tyre!

Minus points for Z4MC include: crashey ride on anything but smooth roads, traction on bumpy roads, soft brake pedal and brake fade after few hard stops, flimsy quality of dashboard, hard edged feel means the car feels less refined/ easy to drive as an every day car, although this challenging aspect is a positive if car used for weekend blasts!

If we put money aside for the moment, (2007 Z4MC currently worth approx 2/3 of 2007 Porsche 997.1 C2S value), my feeling is that as an everyday car, the Porsche would win, but for a weekend fun machine to excite like a 4-wheeled motorbike, the Z4MC wins. If I had to choose right now I would keep the Z4MC. It's a very special car I think, something that the motoring journalists failed to pick up on when the car was launched. It's the flawed gem aspect of the Z4MC that makes it such an event to drive.

The motoring press constantly praise the 911, and t is an exceptional car, but it also has some pretty fundamental flaws as well.

For me the S54 engine is a masterpiece and feels more exciting to drive hard than the Porsche M97 engine. No need to mention bore scoring issues on the Porsche either!

So far it's been an interesting comparison, and I will keep both until the Spring and then decide. At the moment the Z4MC is the one most likely to be kept! Some people will think I'm crazy to so far prefer a Z4M, but I know from previous posts that many of you who own a Z4M know how special it is.

Would be interested to hear others thoughts?

[Mr Tidy]

I doubt my budget will ever let me have either, but Z4MC is probably more achievable.

Interesting insights though - I think I need to try to get a ride in something with an S54 engine some time!

Looking forward to seeing which you decide to keep, although if you can keep both there my be a profit in that!

[Angelus666]

Nice review and comparison. For me the big thing that has let the E85/6 down is the quality if the interior cabin (compared to any porsche), every single one of them I've been in rattles, squeaks and creaks when driven over anything other than fresh tarmac...it's a real shame and detracts from the high value of the car.

[Argenta]

Interesting comparison (not that I'd ever buy a Porcer).
You need to check your brakes, I think they're great if serviced correctly. Start with need fluid and correct bleeding order.

[Muckinonthesofa]

Nice review and comparison. For me the big thing that has let the E85/6 down is the quality if the interior cabin (compared to any porsche), every single one of them I've been in rattles, squeaks and creaks when driven over anything other than fresh tarmac...it's a real shame and detracts from the high value of the car.

I hear this a lot. Maybe I'm lucky but mine doesn't rattle, creak or groan at all.

For me, the biggest flaw is the gearchange. I haven't got round to it yet but I plan to remove the CDV and fit a ZHP to improve it.

Interesting comparison BTW OP

[Beedub]

i get no rattles .... i can defintely hear some creaking from the ageing brittle plastics lol!!

but the gear change is LOVELY.... one of my fave aspects of the driving experience, so accurate and positive!

[Angelus666]

Haha, yeah the challenge of the gearbox is an interesting one, but I somehow feel the challenge to get it right is part of the appeal (the flaws add up to the total appeal), it's not just a car that you get in and drive easily....a german TVR is a good description.

[ZermattV]

Glad you got sorted and it will make for an interesting comparison over the coming months .

S54 Engine is stunning , does the 997 have a sports exhaust?

Keep us updated.

[Jaw]

My 2 cents - I can't compare too extensively with a 997.1 but I can with my tweaked 996 (not a fair comparason, but bear with me..)

Internal Build Quality - mixed bag for me. The Centre armrest on the porker is poorly designed, and pops open from your elbow hitting it unless you lock it. All else is more basic in design than the Z4M (although it is an older car). I love the driving position in the Porsche, possibly due to not having a mile of bonnet in front of you which has it's charm. I missed the chunky Z4 wheel (even though many in the press bagged it, it was perfect for my hands) So I opted for the GT3 RS wheel. I like the design of the BMW dash over the 996's plain approach too. The Porsche doesn't have the typical mid 00's BMW plastics which loose their soft touch coating though which is a plus (although I love them when in good condition). I miss the 10 speaker system and entertainment system in the BMW big time - so much so that I'm currently upgrading the porsche's (although not as bad if you get the bose kit)

The Suspension is as firm in the Porsche as it is the Z4m without the Crashy rear end (but again keep in mind I'm comparing modified suspension and wheels to a standard Z4M with aftermarket wheels). This means that over bumpy or loose roads, it stays composed rather than skittish. Turn in is much, much sharper and precise than the Z4 and there is oodles of grip where as the Z4m was more turn in and hold on while the tail twitches - not saying that I prefer one over the other though! With a strut, some SuperSports, geometry and CSL reps, the Z4's handling was night and day to the standard setup imo, but the porsche with a similar treatment is something to behold. I haven't pushed a standard 996/7 to the extent of mine so can't confirm or deny the praise it gets out of the box. But it goes exactly where you want, communicates via carrier pigeon, not surprising with the huge rear wheels and rear engine layout but still surprises me at how effortless the pace can be. The 996 is a bit lighter than the Z and it feels it. (1460kg vs 1370 I believe but again with lighter seats/wheels it's probably a bit less than that so not a fair comparason).

The porsche sounds much angrier than the BMW, again, modified so oranges and apples but the flat six wails and snorts whereas the Z4M only came on song at high revs in standard form. I LOVED the afe on the Z4M which gave it some much needed grunt under WOT but the stock tail pipes were ever so slightly too feint - and the RPI too droney (but loved the overrun on the stock exhaust). After a lot of youtubing and even viewing a few in person I didn't find an exhaust tone that quite did it over the porkers.

engine urgency was the reason I had ruled out a NA 996 or 997 originally, the Z4 just has a certain x factor which doesn't turn up on the standard 996/997. But the carrera performance pack and gemballa mods means I get a higher rev limit, and a shift in peak power, giving a noticeable punch mid range and it's just so addictive to hold at the right revs and let rip.

Stock for stock, I'd enjoy the Z4 more for being more outlandish and it's ''flaws'' are what makes it so perfect - and was exactly why I didn't go for a 911 or cayman. It's the only car I've had for as long as I had it and although I wanted to trade in for something more exotic nothing at a similar price came close - but I guess what I'm getting at is with the right mods, the 996 (and so am guessing 997) can more than bridge the sense of occasion that the Z4M has in spades, whilst being all the quicker and better handling to boot with added badge wankery. The modified M I had been in felt more composed than mine did but it was more louty which again - not necesarily all bad, just an observation. Problem is the mods on mine came from factory so the price difference between the two would have been substantial - and I for one probably wouldn't pay the price tag now to modify a 996 extensively unless it just popped up.

But I can't stop thinking about another Z4M as a second car or trading in for an M6 - so there must be something that I seriously miss about the Beemer (and I'm pretty sure it's the added bonus of toys, computery, general finish etc, But for me the modded 911 does everything better than any of the tweaked or standard Z4's I've been in but then with the same money thrown at a Z4M maybe the playing field would be evened. The Standard 911 out performs the Z4M - but that alone wasn't enough to make me want one more than the BMW.

[markos]

nickw6666, really interesting report of your findings, I enjoyed that read. Interesting too as in a few weeks I'll be doing something similar with my newly-acquired 4.2 R8, but I need to get to know it a little more before I can compare.

Definitely agree that it's a flawed gem and (a bit like Italian cars) that's what gives it a certain character, or soul even, and I have described it many times as a German (ie reliable) TVR...

Nick in terms of 'feel', when you get in the 911 does it feel like a more special, premium car? A step up – or even a league above – the Z4MC?

[nickw6666]

Some really interesting responses, it shows that some of you feel the same way and it's not a slam dunk as to which is the better car.

I've always used my Z4M as a 2nd car, as I felt that it was quite hard edged to be doing the commute even though it's more than capable of it with great stability on the motorway and that effortlessly smooth S54.

Markos - the 997.1 definitely feels special but then so does the Z4M to me. Jumping from one to the other there are some things I like more in each car, but the Z4M does not feel a drop down compared to the 911 in my opinion. I think we have to remember that the Cayman/Boxster is a high percentage the same car as the 911, so it's not a case that the 911 feels leagues ahead of the Z4M.

The nappa leather in the Z4M really lifts the interior, and I think the solid gear change and weighty steering of the Z4M gives you a sense of driving a 'weapons grade' car. The 911 has it's rear engine, slightly 'floaty' front end feel which is definitely 'characterful'.

My 911 does have a sports exhaust, but I hate to say it, it sounds a bit like I've gone to Halfords and bought a straight through exhaust. It sounds a bit too 'try hard' compared to the S54 which just bursts into life and sits there snarling waiting to go. Without the sports exhaust on, the 911 sounds pretty quiet and restrained. Honestly in Porsche terms the best sounding engine for me is their 2.7 found in the Boxster / Cayman 986/987 models.

So for me the S54 is the key to the Z4M, as well as the amazing profile and double bubble roof! Whenever I go anywhere in the Z4M it gets a lot of positive looks and comments. The 911 does too but I also get the impression people are looking at me and thinking 'show off' or maybe something less charitable!

With the S54, the throttle response is amazing, better than the 911. I think you'd need a Porsche motorsport engine to match it from the GT range. I used to own a Ducati 748 and I've always felt that the Z4MC was like a 4-wheel motorbike in its immediacy and level of involvement.
The 911 though I think is a better motorway cruiser as it doesn't require as much concentration and it's quieter although the tyre noise is very loud. Probably something to do with the 305 width rear tyres I have on mine!

Anyway, I'm going to enjoy the comparison and will update on how things progress. I won't keep both indefinitely as I also have a 335i coupe for day-day motorway commuting and running 3x cars with £500 tax is crazy really! Saying that though, all 3 x cars I have now are worth less than the 997.2 GTS I was initially thinking of buying! So maybe I'm doing it the cheap way!

But for now I'm going to have a lot of fun comparing. All I need now is for the winter weather to hold off!

[jimmybell]

[stujeffrey]

I switched from a 997.1 S to a Z4MC. No regrets. I had a 3.4 boxster S before that.....

The Porsche was great if you want something to cruise around and pose in and a great sound but in terms of excitement just not in the same league. I just found it to be a bit boring after a few weeks of ownership and I actually longed to have the boxster back.

Also my 997.1 had light bore scoring issues (a 12k fix....) and lots of the 3.8s suffer with this so if you go for a 997 get the 3.6 or even a Gen2 (which is a much better package)

I came to the conclusion that for the price range there is nothing that compares to the Z4MC.

[markos]

I came to the conclusion that for the price range there is nothing that compares to the Z4MC.

Couldn't agree more with that. I am of the opinion that Z4Ms are actually terrific value.

[ZermattV]

OP .. I think your choice is easy ... Sell the 3 Series