a little teaser...

[Cheburator]

Driving Impressions - the standard brakes are not bad for one or two stops from huge speeds, however they don't stand up well to repeated track use (abuse). The Porsche caliper may stop you only a fraction quicker, but where they really excel is the ability to modulate your braking and their resistance to fade. The Porsche brake pad from memory is about 35% bigger than the BMW one. To give you an idea - if the kit is good enough for an E46 M3 which competes in the ADAC 24hrs of the Nurburgring, then it is good enough for me.

Brake pad sensor - the Porsche pad has the same recess as the BMW pad. In fact Porsche fit wear sensors on all four corners on each pad! Thus if you want to have the sensor plugged in, it is not a problem. I prefer to check mine visually since I don't want to end up somewehere in the middle of nowehere with the light on.

The kit fits well with standard 18" Z4MC and Z4MR wheels. That's what I am using since I actually like the design and wanted to be different from the CSL fan boys My wheels are gloss black to go with the Imola Red...

I told my insurance company and they were happy about it - after all I am increasing the safety margin on the car and not power output, which they usually hate. Premium has stayed the same.

[peddy]

Cheburator, any ideas about it fitting on a non-M?

[lacroupade]

Oh I seriously love mods like this

then I suggest you need to get out a bit more CJ...

[Cheburator]

Cheburator, any ideas about it fitting on a non-M?

I honestly don't know - in theory it should not be a problem, but you need to look into the following:

- is the 3.0Si using the same calipers as the E46 M3 CSL/Z4MC
- is the 3.0Si using the same king pin as the E46 M3
- what is the offset of the 3.0Si brake disc vs. the CSL/Z4MC disc

If the answers to the above are the same, then it will work... Beware of different part numbers which often describe one and the same thing. For example, the front ATE brake caliper is used on the following vehicles - Porsche 928S, Porsche 928S2, BMW E28 535i, BMW E24 635CSI, BMW E30 M3, BMW E36 M3, BMW E46 M3 and the Z4MC. Sure, pad size is different by a small variation, but ultimately I can go to a 1980 Porsche 928 S and swap calipers. Real OEM will not tell you that though... Maybe you need to compare the real parts or ask someone who is actually in the trade?

My line of work is completely different from cars, they are just a hobby and a wallet emptying device

[ga41]

So basically the only thing you would need for this upgrade (other than the callipers themselves and new pads) is the custom brackets. Where do you get those? Quality? Durability?

This is a very interesting mod and one that i might try myself but even if i dont perhaps these questions and their answers will be of help to others as well!

[a11y]

More pics needed right now please!!!!

I get the impression Beedub is getting a bit excited about this

[Kryton]

I told my insurance company and they were happy about it - after all I am increasing the safety margin on the car and not power output, which they usually hate. Premium has stayed the same.

Well I'm amazed, however I still think others should ask their Insurance Co and give them details such as, special made bracket to enable the Porsche unit fit ,as well as cutting your own unit up to make them fit.
It's not just about performance uplift's but any variation from the stock spec.

You all know what Ins Co's are like, any excuse

[Cheburator]

So basically the only thing you would need for this upgrade (other than the callipers themselves and new pads) is the custom brackets. Where do you get those? Quality? Durability?

This is a very interesting mod and one that i might try myself but even if i dont perhaps these questions and their answers will be of help to others as well!

Correct - you only need 4 custom brackets and 8 bolts. I will be fitting SS braded lines, but you don't have to. I get the brackets made on a CNC machine by my race mechanic who helps look after the Porsche race car. The quality is good - we use the finest English double extra mature Cheddar to produce the brackets. Sometimes we use French brie, but that will cost extra...

There is no way in hell an insurance person would know that my dust shields at the rear have been modified... But I agree with you, it is better to tell them that you have fitted Porsche brakes and that the car has gone through a MOT. No need to explain about custom brackets. After all, if you want to fit AP Racing, MOVIT or Stoptech you will be using a bracket too...


P.S. In reality, the brackets are made of steel and fit perfectly. The last thing that I want on my mind when I am getting air on the approach to Schwedenkreuz in the car at 160mph is whether I had done a good job on the bracket

[Kryton]

There is no way in hell an insurance person would know that my dust shields at the rear have been modified...

. No need to explain about custom brackets.

Wrong on both counts I'm afraid

Sorry to 'rain on your parade' but I don't want to see any member here's Ins Co reneging on any future claim because the mod's have not been disclosed properly.

[ga41]

So basically the only thing you would need for this upgrade (other than the callipers themselves and new pads) is the custom brackets. Where do you get those? Quality? Durability?

This is a very interesting mod and one that i might try myself but even if i dont perhaps these questions and their answers will be of help to others as well!

Correct - you only need 4 custom brackets and 8 bolts. I will be fitting SS braded lines, but you don't have to. I get the brackets made on a CNC machine by my race mechanic who helps look after the Porsche race car. The quality is good - we use the finest English double extra mature Cheddar to produce the brackets. Sometimes we use French brie, but that will cost extra...

There is no way in hell an insurance person would know that my dust shields at the rear have been modified... But I agree with you, it is better to tell them that you have fitted Porsche brakes and that the car has gone through a MOT. No need to explain about custom brackets. After all, if you want to fit AP Racing, MOVIT or Stoptech you will be using a bracket too...


P.S. In reality, the brackets are made of steel and fit perfectly. The last thing that I want on my mind when I am getting air on the approach to Schwedenkreuz in the car at 160mph is whether I had done a good job on the bracket

I've already got braided lines but havent installed them yet.. By the way my insurance company wont know the difference at all, i once asked them if changing to an aftermarket exhaust changes anything and they asked me: "Will it increase the cubic capacity?" -"Well, no." "Then it's OK."

Now say i want to go with this setup, would you be able to sell me brackets/bolts? Or perhaps point to someplace that does?

[Cheburator]

So basically the only thing you would need for this upgrade (other than the callipers themselves and new pads) is the custom brackets. Where do you get those? Quality? Durability?

This is a very interesting mod and one that i might try myself but even if i dont perhaps these questions and their answers will be of help to others as well!

Correct - you only need 4 custom brackets and 8 bolts. I will be fitting SS braded lines, but you don't have to. I get the brackets made on a CNC machine by my race mechanic who helps look after the Porsche race car. The quality is good - we use the finest English double extra mature Cheddar to produce the brackets. Sometimes we use French brie, but that will cost extra...

There is no way in hell an insurance person would know that my dust shields at the rear have been modified... But I agree with you, it is better to tell them that you have fitted Porsche brakes and that the car has gone through a MOT. No need to explain about custom brackets. After all, if you want to fit AP Racing, MOVIT or Stoptech you will be using a bracket too...


P.S. In reality, the brackets are made of steel and fit perfectly. The last thing that I want on my mind when I am getting air on the approach to Schwedenkreuz in the car at 160mph is whether I had done a good job on the bracket

I've already got braided lines but havent installed them yet.. By the way my insurance company wont know the difference at all, i once asked them if changing to an aftermarket exhaust changes anything and they asked me: "Will it increase the cubic capacity?" -"Well, no." "Then it's OK."

Now say i want to go with this setup, would you be able to sell me brackets/bolts? Or perhaps point to someplace that does?

Agree on the insurance front and have a suggestion... Let's leave the question of declaring or not declaring mods outside of the scope of this topic. Most of us are grown up individuals who I believe are capable of looking after our own interest most of the time.

I can supply the brackets and bolts, which means that eBay is your friend with regards to the calipers. Alternatively, I can supply new calipers from Porsche on top of the brackets and bolts, but the costs will go up.

I will not become rich overnight with this kit, but I would be happy if I can offset some of the costs of my brake upgrade.

[ga41]

Another question if you will (starting to get annoying, i'm sorry ) am i right in believing that there are at least 3 different brake callipers on recent 911's, the silver and black ones from the Carrera 2 and 4, the red ones from the Turbo, the C4S and GT3 and the big yellow ones (carbon ceramic disks).

The brackets that you've had made, are for which ones? The black/silver AND big red?

[cj10jeeper]

Did you need to make any changes to the master cylinder given that the Porsche caliper will almost certainly be running a different master to slave ratio to stock? Result is going to either be more travel or more pedal effort for a given applied brake force.

Not a criticism, just curios (so speaks the guy who welds and bolts any brake combination, changed drums to disk, etc onto off road Jeeps to get appropriate performance )

[Cheburator]

No, I am not annoyed, after all I started the thread, thus I should expect questions...

The calipers used are the ones off Carerra 2, 4, Boxster S, Cayman S. You are correct that the Carerra 4S, 996GT3, 996TT and 997S use a bigger caliper. I spoke to a few guys who built and maintain race cars at the Nurburgring and they adviced that the bigger pad will be too much for our discs. Remember, Porsche uses 32mm, while ours are 28mm. The smaller Carerra 2 caliper is just right in terms of pad size vs. breaking vs. disc cooling and longevity.

Good question on the master cylinder - I follow the logic that E46M3 and E46M3 CSLs get the AP Racing front and rear upgrade without doing anything to the master cylinder. Given that the Porsche upgrade is similar and if anything smaller than the AP in terms of caliper pistons volume, we should be ok. Of course, I will not know until I am hurtling towards the armco frantically trying to smash the brake pedal into the carpet

[cj10jeeper]

No, I am not annoyed, after all I started the thread, thus I should expect questions...

The calipers used are the ones off Carerra 2, 4, Boxster S, Cayman S. You are correct that the Carerra 4S, 996GT3, 996TT and 997S use a bigger caliper. I spoke to a few guys who built and maintain race cars at the Nurburgring and they adviced that the bigger pad will be too much for our discs. Remember, Porsche uses 32mm, while ours are 28mm. The smaller Carerra 2 caliper is just right in terms of pad size vs. breaking vs. disc cooling and longevity.

Good question on the master cylinder - I follow the logic that E46M3 and E46M3 CSLs get the AP Racing front and rear upgrade without doing anything to the master cylinder. Given that the Porsche upgrade is similar and if anything smaller than the AP in terms of caliper pistons volume, we should be ok. Of course, I will not know until I am hurtling towards the armco frantically trying to smash the brake pedal into the carpet

Ha ha - best do some testing on a quiet piece of road to see what pedal feel is like. I had some horrors like changing rear drums to disk and being able to lock the rears with a feather on the pedals. Also had residual pressure valves in lines that meant they never loosened off when you lifted. Ended up with bias valves and all sorts of fun.

AP will almost certainly tune their kit to the Zed master cylinder. In your case if the piston area of the Porsche replacements is the same as AP or OEM you'll be pretty much good to go