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Again you keep harping on about the "real" experience. Rather patronising don't you think, telling others their experiences aren’t real as they don't drive a manual?

I get why there is an eternal argument of manual vs auto, people have their preferences, however it's a bit like a follower of one religion decrying a follower of another for their faith not being real.

Ok - change that into a "more engaged" experience rather than "real". Don't think there is much argument about using that terminology.

Most people don't want that as part of their driving, which comes back to the original point of the thread that there will be a smaller group to which it really appeals.

Not being a dog with a bone, but I've never felt less engaged when driving an automatic for fun rather than a manual.

I could say that I do feel more engaged riding my litre sportsbike, as it feels like every other road user is out to get me.

pvr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:12 pm Throw a manual Z around a mountain pass versus an automatic. Getting those gear changes just right in the hairpins is the real experience.

I am not talking about going up and down the A9.

My X5Mis not manual, and it is really nice to drive and I have taken it in the mountains, but compared to my manual? Nah

Use the paddle shifts when you want "a real driving experience" Just the same as moving a gear stick and dipping a clutch without the bother.

Still get just the right choice of gear changes in hairpins but using paddles instead of a stick

Nanu wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 pm Use the paddle shifts when you want "a real driving experience" Just the same as moving a gear stick and dipping a clutch without the bother.

Still get just the right choice of gear changes in hairpins but using paddles instead of a stick

It isn't just that, though, is it? It's not just the 'lack of clutch pedal' that makes a manual different and more involving. It's many things IMO.

But we are in danger (again) of getting into the tribal argument of manual vs auto. On other forums it's ICE vs EV nowadays, but we haven't quite got there yet on here!

Having owned a B58 with the ZF auto, I would LOVE to have a manual version of anything with that engine.

My thoughts are more or less every dealer will have one as a demo or in stock car, as for myself I would have the 8 speed auto every time although had I wrote this 20 years ago it would have been manual all day long

Using an Automatic changing gears as you would in a manual takes a lot of practice and paddle changes don’t make it any easier. If you have a manual changes become second nature, it’s easy to use the paddles to overtake a car, it’s not easy to use on a twisty road.
I have paddles but I find if I want to overtake or be a hoon the sport button is just as effective.

deltasierra wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:42 pm Using an Automatic changing gears as you would in a manual takes a lot of practice

I imagine it would without a third pedal. Infinite practice...in fact it's impossible.

Despite my initial aversion to the MT colour scheme I've really warmed to it now. I think it's distinctive and rather lovely, though I may change my mind once I see one in real life. Would I buy one ? There's an itch there. I really like the AT in my M40i, but I remember the hard charging MT pump from my old M3. Maybe it's all a bit much at my age but I still enjoy charging about in our MT hot hatch. One to ponder for a while I think.

Do you three pedal enthusiasts never fluff a gear change or get caught out in the wrong cog?

However back on subject I’ve placed my vote !
(Less than 100)

ronk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:44 am Do you three pedal enthusiasts never fluff a gear change or get caught out in the wrong cog?

However back on subject I’ve placed my vote !
(Less than 100)

I fluff my MT things occasionally. Note to self: must do better Maybe I really need to have more time paddling my AT. 35
years of MT driving is conditioning writ large compared with just a year of AT.

I also voted less than a 100.

Not getting involved in the manual vs auto debate.

My PERSONAL choice would be manual for a weekend car. Love the extra engagement with a manual, but that dreaded London traffic as a daily is a no for me. I’m too old. Bad enough the car is so low to get in and out of!

I would also add that modern auto and dual clutch gearboxes are excellent and light years better than the sludge boxes of old.

I must be missing something.

It's a Z4 we are talking about right? A BMW Z4?

Nobody will care in the future (or I suspect, when they go on sale).

A purist hunting down a manual option in the future for that 'ultimate experience' will not be lusting after a Z4.

It might sell a few, as I don't think there are many 2 seater convertibles available anymore with a manual gearbox - so if you want one, this is the one. But I expect future residuals to sink like a stone, it's just not special enough to stand out.

(I like them BTW - but won;t be buying one).

I have a Z4 in my stable which is 17 years old

And yes, I did hunt it down

In disagreeing, it feels like we are agreeing

Your 17 year old z4 is a great example - small, light, manual box, engine good enough. The tech inside ages well & it drives well.

But the modern ones?

Too big, too complex, tech that will look like a dinosaur in 10 years. Driving dynamics by dint of power & ekectronics, not mechanical goodness.

Just not for me.