Lineker. Winner or Woketard w@nker?

[sars]

Stop believing the tory politicians and press and look for yourself, from the House of Commons library

"The annual number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010. It rose steadily throughout the 2010s, then sharply in 2021 and again in 2022 to reach 74,751 applications, the highest annual number since 2002"

Small boats are just the current methodology of asylum seekers getting here, again from the library, here is where they come from

"In 2021, 42% of applicants were nationals of Middle Eastern countries, and 23% were nationals of African countries. This pattern shifted in 2022 with the largest nationality groups being Asian countries (31% of applicants) and European countries (24% of applicants).

Between 2014 and 2022, 54,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In 2021 and 2022, nearly 21,400 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.

In 2022, two new routes were introduced for Ukrainians. As of December 2022, around 154,500 people had arrived under these schemes. This flow was much larger in scale than any other single forced migration flow to the UK in recent history. The number of Ukrainian refugees who arrived in the UK in 2022 was equivalent to the number of people granted refuge in the UK from all origins, in total, between 2014 and 2021"

Asylum seekers are not a significant burden on our society, many of whom want to make a better life for themselves and hopefully contribute to our society, they are not all freeloaders. We also accept far less than the majority of EU countries, we are willing to give France over £479 million over three years to stop them coming by boat, which equates to a cost of £1,800 per asylum seeker per year, but there is no potential financial return, just cost.

[coldel]

Well its worth a look at the numbers, the prediction of it 'hitting 100,000 a year shortly' cant possibly be correct, given that we are already seeing a plateau in the trend i.e. the growth from 2020 to 2021 to 2022 is not climbing its reducing. There are only a few data points but it looks like a typical S curve.

Interestingly if you read the actual government numbers it shows some obvious issues...

They cannot process people quick enough, either understaffed (most likely) or poorly set up (also highly likely) to handle the numbers. Interestingly, over half of all irregular small boat arrivals that are processed are granted asylum, in that their reason to travel was valid. To date, nearly two thirds of migrants are left unprocessed and they are sat waiting.

The issue here isn't that 'we cant keep going at this rate' because, properly managed of course we can, its just that the government rather than owning up and saying their immigration services are underfunded and poorly managed, decide instead to convince the nation that we are under some sort of attack - hence the language. Many migrants enter into gaps in our labour market, pay taxation, contribute economically. Given that as a nation historically we are all migrants of some sort, its unsurprising.

[Nanu]

Nanu, According to the Government’s own sources asylum seekers, of which there were 89,000 of them in 2022 (ranked 16th in Europe) and accounted for about 18% of total migrants to the UK, which includes those from Ukraine, all other migrants were visiting students or on work visas. But according to Braverman there’s 100’s of millions of them coming, which is just pure scaremongering and pandering to the right wing nationalists, as that’s all this party has left.

she said 100’s of millions were eligible not were actually coming

[Nanu]

In fact they blame these economic migrants of damaging the genuine refugees claims by flooding the system with their claims for asylum.

There are legal routes. We take asylum seekers from refugee camps such as those in Lebanon.

Why would someone fleeing war or persecution from their home country throw away passports and any identification papers. Surely they would want evidence that they were from a war torn country?

How about jumping on a flight to Heathrow and on landing present their documents to immigration and claim asylum. A business class flight on BA would be cheaper than paying people traffickers and slightly more comfortable.

[Nanu]

Asylum seekers are not a significant burden on our society, many of whom want to make a better life for themselves and hopefully contribute to our society, they are not all freeloaders. We also accept far less than the majority of EU countries, we are willing to give France over £479 million over three years to stop them coming by boat, which equates to a cost of £1,800 per asylum seeker per year, but there is no potential financial return, just cost.
[/quote]

Approx £7 million per day cost of housing asylum seekers in hotels sounds like a burden on society to me.

As for we taking less than most EU countries, we are a lot more densely populated than the likes of France and Germany. We are 8 th on the list of EU countries behind the likes of the Vatican City, Monaco, San Marino, Malta. You get the picture?

As for migrants just wanting a better life, fair enough, totally agree, but that is not a condition for granting asylum and proves they are economic migrants.

The proposed legislation passed its second reading last night seeks to deter economic migrants which if it succeeds, will allow more energies and resources to be targeted at genuine refugees.

[coldel]

Nanu, According to the Government’s own sources asylum seekers, of which there were 89,000 of them in 2022 (ranked 16th in Europe) and accounted for about 18% of total migrants to the UK, which includes those from Ukraine, all other migrants were visiting students or on work visas. But according to Braverman there’s 100’s of millions of them coming, which is just pure scaremongering and pandering to the right wing nationalists, as that’s all this party has left.

she said 100’s of millions were eligible not were actually coming

And this is kind of the crux of it. And the reason for the Tweet by Lineker.

The asylum issue has been going on for decades, centuries, its not a new thing. However, using language like 100s of millions are eligible is done deliberately to scare the populous, make it sound like there is an invasion imminent.

There are millions of people already living in the UK that could come punch your face in, knock your house down, attack your children...but the fact of the matter is they don't. Just as 100s of millions of people that could come to the UK, wont.

The comment was inflammatory and designed to scare people to be afraid of something that wont happen, to gain public support for an unpopular policy this government had to push through as its been promised as part of their wider agenda - and it worked. In much the same way totalitarian governments of the past, such as 1930's Germany did so.

[pvr]

Wasn't that the same method / language used to get Brexit through? Turkey was coming in the EU and millions were going to come to the UK unless Brexit was voted for.

[Vornwend]

In fact they blame these economic migrants of damaging the genuine refugees claims by flooding the system with their claims for asylum.

There are legal routes. We take asylum seekers from refugee camps such as those in Lebanon.

Why would someone fleeing war or persecution from their home country throw away passports and any identification papers. Surely they would want evidence that they were from a war torn country?

How about jumping on a flight to Heathrow and on landing present their documents to immigration and claim asylum. A business class flight on BA would be cheaper than paying people traffickers and slightly more comfortable.

I think you might be referring UNHCR route which the UK participates in? - we took just 1,185 in 2022. Technically its a legal route but effectively you'd have no chance of getting here.

Normally people throw away documents they don't believe have any value. In the case of refugees, sadly its a fact that there chances of asylum are probably greater if they have no documentation and thats also what the people smugglers tell them. It remains an offence to arrive in the UK with no documentation after having destroyed it - I don't think its ever been prosecuted though - impossible to prove I suppose

I'm sure you could have worked out for yourself why refugees don't just fly in but here you go - You need a visa to arrive in the UK from these countries. Refugees need to show this at the point of departure and airlines who allow travel without them are liable for full costs if they subsequently have to be deported. You can't get a visa, so you can't get on a plane, hence the need to look for other highly dangerous routes.

I invite you, if you can be bothered, to look into what the new bill means for the victims of modern slavery. Theresa May made a compelling speech about in during the debate... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u245_Rb0cKo

[coldel]

Wasn't that the same method / language used to get Brexit through? Turkey was coming in the EU and millions were going to come to the UK unless Brexit was voted for.

Fear is a powerful driver. And it definitely lends itself to nationalism, rather than patriotism. Too many people think they are patriots, when in fact they are borderline jinogistic.

[Nanu]

Re the reference to modern slavery. Why would someone pay thousands of pounds to people smugglers to come to this country to be then become trapped as “ slaves”. That is the point of the legislation, these people are not being forced to come here.

The legislation is being used by lawyers as a last resort to avoid deportation.

The reason people dispose of documentation is so it’s virtually impossible then to either disprove their claim where they have come from or to identify where they have come from. If you can’t identify which countries they are from, you cannot send them back.

As for visa requirements, normally you only need a passport for departure, it’s upon arrival that you need to show a visa. Also you can apply for a tourist visa on line. If the country you’re in has access to the internet, say Albania, Pakistan or India where many are currently coming from, then you can apply.

The reason for using boats is they know they have very little chance of being granted asylum if the apply legally, but once here if they are refused, there is little chance of deportation.

[coldel]

The reason for using boats is they know they have very little chance of being granted asylum if the apply legally, but once here if they are refused, there is little chance of deportation.

This is incorrect. The governments own data shows that of the irregular immigrants on small boats that arrived, over half were granted legal asylum status. It also shows deportations of those not granted, sending them back to point of origin.

The policy is nothing to do with stopping slavery or people smugglers or any such heroic rhetoric, it is about as ever two things, winning an election and money.

The Tories appealed to the nationalist cohort in this country during the previous election, in effect promising 'we are an island that makes our own rules' and small boats makes a mockery of this. Additionally, the system the government have in place to deal with irregular immigration (which happens globally in every country, this isn't uniquely a UK thing) is not fit for purpose. A large proportion of all irregular immigrants on small boats are still waiting to be processed.

All that aside, that wasn't really the point of Linekers tweet. It is the 'panic the nation' language used by Braverman to dehumanise, to make them the enemy, to make all Tory voting nationlists who are potentially leaning away come back onside.

[Nanu]

You state quite correctly that over half arriving on small boats were granted asylum. You appear to be assuming that as a result, they are genuine asylum seekers. (Apologies if I am incorrect)

Just to put that into context however, when an Albanian national applies for asylum in EU countries, they have legislation that deem Albania to be a safe country and as a result have zero tolerance and they are sent back to Albania.

In 2022, just over 12,000 arrived in the UK with approx 55% of Albanians applying for asylum in the UK being granted with only a few hundred returned.

Just because the percentage of asylum claims being granted is high in the UK it doesn't necessarily prove they are genuine. More like we have a very poor immigration judiciary, exceptional lawyers or a very lax asylum system when compared with the EU. I suspect the latter.

[Nanu]

You also suggest that Braverman was trying to dehumanise asylum seekers and make them the enemy. Not correct. She was trying against sever opposition from out leftist civil service and immigration lawyers to stop economic migrants, who have no right to be here and game the system from coming.

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

The UK have always been welcoming genuine asylum seekers and hopefully always will be.

[Chris_D]

You also suggest that Braverman was trying to dehumanise asylum seekers and make them the enemy. Not correct. She was trying against sever opposition from out leftist civil service and immigration lawyers to stop economic migrants, who have no right to be here and game the system from coming.

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

The UK have always been welcoming genuine asylum seekers and hopefully always will be.

Good synopsis.
UK govt needs to get their genuine/fake asylum-seeker filter together asap as it is patently obvious that it's being abused by economic migrants and Albanian criminal freeloaders.
I currently live in an area of NL where if I bike 15 minutes down the road it's migrant-central. They stand out a country mile and the Dutch govt sees that they all receive money, housing, clothes, medical insurances and food. The 'furnished apartments' they receive all have TV in Arabic as well as a specially-decorated prayer room/space.
When I see them on the street harrassing Dutchies, women and kids, singing 'Allah u snackbar' at the top of their voices, stealing sh!t from the Lidl everytime I go shopping there then I'm really not surprised that we had a landslide right-wing party victory in the local elections this week!
Admittedly, that victory was due mostly to the resistance to the Nitrogen-reduction debacle and support for Dutch farmers but there is also a LOT of sentiment for nationalistic policies that the BBB party et al have as part of their political charters such as maintaining Dutch values, identity and traditions and curtailing migrant numbers.

Answer me this: why is it that the vast majority of migrants are young men?
Where are the women and kids? Anyone got the stats on that??

[sars]

All that aside, that wasn't really the point of Linekers tweet. It is the 'panic the nation' language used by Braverman to dehumanise, to make them the enemy, to make all Tory voting nationlists who are potentially leaning away come back onside.

This

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

A few years ago, just after we voted to leave the EU, I was in Germany, talking to a German colleague, he couldn’t believe why we as a nation would want to leave the EU. Pretty much every German I’ve spoken to then and since, thought we were crazy to leave. Anyway, he couldn’t understand how we were convinced to leave, my response was similar to Gary Linekers, how did Hitler get his followers to massacre over six million Jews, it didn’t just happen overnight, it was a progressive, ever increasing rhetoric and the demonisation of the Jews during the 1930’s. We had years of the Conservatives and their press blaming everything that was wrong with this country on the European Union and the only way we can make everything better was to leave. Now that we’ve left, they need a new enemy to divert and distract from the realities of our economic issues and whom better that Asylum seekers who have no voice. I think that’s what Lineker was trying to say with the limitations of Twitter.