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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Discussing the current generation Z4
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Mr Tidy
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by Mr Tidy » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:37 pm

My memories of Autos date from torque converter 3 and 4 speed boxes so I've steered clear of them ever since! And I don't think an Auto would really suit an S54 engine - despite the SMG offered on the E46 M3.

I've never driven anything with a modern Autobox but I'm sure it would be a totally different experience, although giving buyers a choice can only be a good thing.
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ronk » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:49 pm

I remember the Borg Warner three speed box and it was awful

The torque converter box in my 335 and the DCT in my 35is are both an absolute dream. They are both always in the appropriate gear and the charges are lighting fast.

I hear the driving experience and proper gear changes a lot but don’t really understand it - I never heard of anyone objecting to synchromesh

Each to their own and If you like a manual then go for it!
Last edited by ronk on Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by Mr Tidy » Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:02 pm

That's probably what my 1978 Granada Ghia had, and it was pretty hopeless!

But my 1980 Mercedes 280e and 1994 C280 weren't much better, although my 1985 Scorpio was better than I expected.

I only bought them because I wanted the cars and manuals were virtually non-existent. :roll:

Every other car I have owned has been manual, and my MC and 330i are always in the right gear anyway - because I chose it. :lol:
Coupes because stunning!
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ronk » Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:32 pm

I don’t think either camp will. be swayed by discussion somehow . :rofl:
You don't stop playing when you get old - You get old when you stop playing!
So I bought a 35is with all the toys to play with. :thumbsup:

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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ori » Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:15 am

ronk wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:32 pm I don’t think either camp will. be swayed by discussion somehow . :rofl:
Well, if a manual box was faster then f1 cars would still have them. ;)

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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ori » Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:30 am

Just putting it out there. Don’t get me wrong. Driver involvement is a different argument.

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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ori » Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:45 pm

Mr Tidy wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:37 pm My memories of Autos date from torque converter 3 and 4 speed boxes so I've steered clear of them ever since! And I don't think an Auto would really suit an S54 engine - despite the SMG offered on the E46 M3.

I've never driven anything with a modern Autobox but I'm sure it would be a totally different experience, although giving buyers a choice can only be a good thing.
The ZF8 gearbox is nothing like a slush box. It’s actually completely different. The way it works is really quite impressive, but it’s the first auto I’ve driven that actually feels like a DCT. In sports and sports plus, it’s super fast on the shifts and while it might be fractionally slower than a dct on the changes, it isn’t really noticeable and is smoother in traffic.

The only advantage of a manual in todays world is small cars and driver involvement. Nothing feels as good as a perfectly timed downshift before a corner.
Performance…..auto wins.
Economy…….auto wins.
Comfort……..auto wins

Plus clutch plates are so expensive on powerful cars and flywheels aren’t cheap either!

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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by N4LLY » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:31 pm

ori wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:45 pm

The only advantage of a manual in todays world is small cars and driver involvement. Nothing feels as good as a perfectly timed downshift before a corner.

This is so true. I have some step hill's round here with some serious corners half way up them. Is a joy to drop a cog as you enter the bend 8)
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ronk » Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:33 pm

ori wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:45 pm
The ZF8 gearbox is nothing like a slush box. It’s actually completely different. The way it works is really quite impressive, but it’s the first auto I’ve driven that actually feels like a DCT. In sports and sports plus, it’s super fast on the shifts and while it might be fractionally slower than a dct on the changes, it isn’t really noticeable and is smoother in traffic.
If the ZF8 gearbox is fitted to the 335 (I think it is) then I can compare it directly to the DCT fitted to the 35is
I would say the differences are at best minimal.
:D
The TC box will find a forward gear after a neutral Pause much faster than the DCT

Normal gear changes are slightly softer in the TC box which is more comfortable in traffic but switch into sport and both will swap a cog faster than the blink of an eye - every time !

The DCT will give a throttle blip on the way down if in Sport. I dont know about theTC as mine is attached to a Diesel lump.

I don’t intend this to be an argument for or agin an auto box of any kind - purely my observations of the two BMW offerings. However I cannot imagine a time that I will ever contemplate buying a car with a third pedal again..
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by Mr Tidy » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:29 pm

ori wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:45 pm The only advantage of a manual in todays world is small cars and driver involvement. Nothing feels as good as a perfectly timed downshift before a corner.
Performance…..auto wins.
Economy…….auto wins.
Comfort……..auto wins

Plus clutch plates are so expensive on powerful cars and flywheels aren’t cheap either!
I know, but Autoboxes don't seem quite as robust and if they go wrong repairs soon get very expensive! But then G29s are all still pretty new.
Coupes because stunning!
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ronk » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:38 pm

How many people have you seen who drive along resting their hand on the gearstick, riding the clutch or sitting with the LH pedal depressed at traffic lights?

Misuses are less likely on an auto - no doubt possible but less likely I would think.
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by pvr » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:49 pm

I can only compare the Porsche boxes where the PDK is more expensive to maintain due to the services required, breaks more often than a manual. The top speed is also lower than a manual but that is really irrelevant those few mph.

Having just returned from an Alps run, the enjoyment with the manual box in the hairpins is so good that I would have hated doing the same in the PDK version.

My X5M was not available as a manual, but it is nice for the performance etc but the involvement is virtually non existent. The playing with the pedals and the performance settings is ok for a bit, but you soon stop doing that.
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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by ronk » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:56 pm

The first time I drove the 3.0 auto down the Autobahn at 90 / 100 mph it surprised me when I floored if and it dropped down the box - i don’t know how many? - I wouldn’t have done that on a manual box

It confounds the “always in the correct gear argument “
You don't stop playing when you get old - You get old when you stop playing!
So I bought a 35is with all the toys to play with. :thumbsup:

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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by Mr Tidy » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:03 pm

When I felt the need for speed in my Coupes I'd often change from 6th to 4th at those sort of speeds - on a private road obviously!
Coupes because stunning!
Current - Silver Grey MC, Imola Red heated Nappa & carbon trim. Aeros, H & R Coil-overs, 224s, OE Strut brace, Nav, cup-holders, DSP Hi-Fi, pdc, cruise, MFSW, no CDV! E90 330i daily
Gone - Montego Blue
Gone - Ruby Black

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Would you trade in for a manual M40i...?

Post by john-e89 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:09 pm

ronk wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:56 pm The first time I drove the 3.0 auto down the Autobahn at 90 / 100 mph it surprised me when I floored if and it dropped down the box - i don’t know how many? - I wouldn’t have done that on a manual box

It confounds the “always in the correct gear argument “
I don't think that's the issue though Ronk, it's the fact that with a manual you can be in the wrong or right gear and it doesn't matter, physically using a shift and pedals is the fun. I have to admit as much as I liked my G29 it was just steering, even with paddles, just not enough driver input. I'd happily have another but only if, A, I had a manual M or something for pure fun, or, B, a manual G29.
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