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CSL Airbox

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TomK
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CSL Airbox

Post by TomK » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:44 pm

maupineda wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:22 pm The Z4M seems to have a feed that can connect to the lower air feed of the CSL box, just like the e46 M3. I do not know if the prior owner installed it, but it seems to be a factory item.
This is quite interesting! Can you find reference to this on realoem or such? The few z4ms I've seen don't have this I'm pretty sure? Where is it drawing air from?
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Post by TomK » Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:28 am

For interest perhaps here's how the goeke fits. Fwiw they have a pretty good reputation for engineering this stuff properly. The inlet track length and all sorts of other things well beyond my understanding are important in the design on any variation from the original / installation.
DSC_0022.JPG
DSC_0022.JPG (131.59 KiB) Viewed 669 times
DSC_0021.JPG
DSC_0021.JPG (132.03 KiB) Viewed 669 times
DSC_0019.JPG
DSC_0019.JPG (114.91 KiB) Viewed 669 times
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

maupineda
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Post by maupineda » Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:24 am

TomK wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:44 pm
maupineda wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:22 pm The Z4M seems to have a feed that can connect to the lower air feed of the CSL box, just like the e46 M3. I do not know if the prior owner installed it, but it seems to be a factory item.
This is quite interesting! Can you find reference to this on realoem or such? The few z4ms I've seen don't have this I'm pretty sure? Where is it drawing air from?
I will take some photos tomorrow. Seems the part is not original to the car, but it is a BMW item and it attaches to a stud on the front rail. You can see this stud on your last photo above

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Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:52 pm

TomK wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:35 pm Agree, the ideal scenario is to hire out bruntingthorpe or something like that, it's the only way to really do it properly I think (actually not that expensive for an hour or so).
I'm interested in how much the ecu's can self adjust. I believe there's a barometric sensor on the mss70 board which might take care of one variable. The lambda sensors should help to avoid over-fuelling but are they not disabled on WOT or something like that?
I would hope that Martyn on here can chime in, certain he knows a lot more about this stuff than I do!
The Z4Ms ECU is actually pretty impressive when it comes to it's closed loop lambda control, which is active for the majority of the time, including at wide open throttle. The ECU will always aim to hit its pre-determined lambda setpoint, as part of this it looks at how much positive or negative trim it needs to apply to the base fuel map in order to hit that setpoint. The smaller the trim the ECU needs to apply, the happier the ECU will be.

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Post by maupineda » Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:57 am

I took photos of how my car is set up. it seems the PO installed true CSL items.

This is a lower pipe that attaches to the framerail
IMG_E3343.JPG
IMG_E3343.JPG (102.79 KiB) Viewed 606 times
The following is the "S" pipe that connects the lower pipe to the unfiltered section of the Karb box
IMG_E3342.JPG
IMG_E3342.JPG (149.43 KiB) Viewed 606 times
The next two photos show the "S" pipe routed to the carbon airbox
IMG_E3339.JPG
IMG_E3339.JPG (85.08 KiB) Viewed 606 times
IMG_E3337.JPG
IMG_E3337.JPG (141.7 KiB) Viewed 606 times

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Post by Justino » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:03 pm

maupineda wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:57 am I took photos of how my car is set up. it seems the PO installed true CSL items.

This is a lower pipe that attaches to the framerail

IMG_E3343.JPG

The following is the "S" pipe that connects the lower pipe to the unfiltered section of the Karb box

IMG_E3342.JPG

The next two photos show the "S" pipe routed to the carbon airbox

IMG_E3339.JPG

IMG_E3337.JPG
This is very helpful, thanks

The 2 first photos seem to show the CSL suction tube and air duct that go to the underside and connect to the carbon box - is that correct ? Both oe parts that will fit the Z4 engine bay it would seem. On realoem I cant see what the suction tube utlimately connects to or whether it dangles in free air.

The 3rd and 4th photos - do these connect to the existing Z4m input, and direct air to the open mouth area?
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup

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Post by Justino » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:11 pm

The suction tube connects to the long flexible pipe here

https://www.apmotorsport.co.uk/product- ... parts-4pcs

That has a flared nozzle on it so helps 'catch' the air, but may not be needed for the Z - and at £298 is expensive anyway.

At a guess, your set up uses the other 3 parts shown.
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup

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Post by Justino » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:20 pm

TomK wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:28 am For interest perhaps here's how the goeke fits. Fwiw they have a pretty good reputation for engineering this stuff properly. The inlet track length and all sorts of other things well beyond my understanding are important in the design on any variation from the original / installation.
DSC_0022.JPG
DSC_0021.JPG
DSC_0019.JPG
Its a very neat solution utilising the existing ram air feed.

The 2 things that are drawing me to the Karbonious set up are the design is more OE faithful/identical, and that there is still the opportunity to get more air into the box, which I think is one of the drivers for more power. I'm not necessarily looking for more power, but it seems worth pursuing if all it needs is some ducting etc.

I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and buy the box, and figure out the pipework afterwards when I have it trial fitted.
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup

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Post by Justino » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:23 pm

TomK wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:44 pm
maupineda wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:22 pm The Z4M seems to have a feed that can connect to the lower air feed of the CSL box, just like the e46 M3. I do not know if the prior owner installed it, but it seems to be a factory item.
This is quite interesting! Can you find reference to this on realoem or such? The few z4ms I've seen don't have this I'm pretty sure? Where is it drawing air from?
Its part number 11617833646 and 11617833645 that I can make out on realoem. These ultimately connect to the CSL intake tube - but thats £298. This is a flexible (insulated) pipe that seems to be located to close to the air intake on the CSL bumper, but not connected. You can see it above the bumper intake here.

https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threads/ ... st-1860609

The bumper intake goes to the snorkel.
Last edited by Justino on Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup

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Post by TomK » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:24 pm

Justino wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:03 pm or whether it dangles in free air.
I believe that's the case, it just draws air in from low in the engine bay in the csl application.
MC[IB], CSL airbox, Schrick 288/280 cams, 4.44FD, UUC SSK, SS race cat back, AP CP9660[F]/5144[R] brakes, Apex ARC-8 with AR-1 or PS5, KW ClubSport 2-way, Turner spherical arms, PMC uniball rtab, VB engine mounts, Rogue pulleys & RSMs, Tillett B6, half cage

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Post by Justino » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:33 pm

yep - just found a photo that shows the fitment which helps me figure out the 3 sources of air to the OE CSL airbox which I am trying to replicate as closely as possible

CSL Bumper - snorkel
Behind CSL Bumper - underside of airbox before filter
Open end when flaps open

Those 3 combined are much greater than the existing Z4M inlet, hence my desire to replicate as closely as possible.
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup

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Post by Martyn » Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:37 pm

You'll get more than enough air into the airbox using the standard airbox feed alone, the lower feed is pointless in my opinion.

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Post by maupineda » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:10 pm

Justino wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:03 pm at the suction tube utlimately connect
The suction tube was cut. in the M3 that tube bends 90deg towards the side of the car, where a flexible hose connects to it, and then the flexible hose loops around the other suction tube that connects to the CSL OEM Flap assembly (google it, and you will see).

In the Z4M there is no space for the suction tube that connects to the S pipe to pass over the other side of the frame rail as you have the oil cooler lines and steering pump hoses, so it was cut to point straight down. I am sure I could get a flexible hose to squeeze and route through to the air brake cooling ducts side, and if modified, made that a cold air feed from the outside, but that is too much faff for what it is.

Those two pipes are still available, but the OE flex hose is not, but an aftermarket 60mm one would do.

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Post by maupineda » Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:13 pm

Justino wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:11 pm set up uses the other 3 parts show
Only two out of the four. the other pipe goes to the snorkel, which I believe does not package on the Z4M. The Karb snorkel was cut so it could install to the car. The two pipes I have are just to not suck hot air right the side of the engine, but a bit lower, not sure if that is better or not, that is how it is though, and I assume once the car is moving, all that area is "cool".

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Post by Justino » Sun Oct 09, 2022 4:21 pm

Martyn wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:37 pm You'll get more than enough air into the airbox using the standard airbox feed alone, the lower feed is pointless in my opinion.
For the sake of 2 pipes, I will give it a go connecting to the lower feed - can’t hurt.

Did you have any thoughts on printing another mouth piece or sharing the file so I could get one printed? Happy to pay of course
2008 Z4MR Silver Grey
2017 Audi A6 Avant Quattro 3.0 BiTdi
2003 Clio 172 Cup

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