intermittent roof problems

[wetpee]

everything in that picture is as it was when it failed except the trunk lid. by internal o-rings, do you mean the small o-rings around the plastic ends on the hoses that plug into the aluminum block on the pump assembly?

[RobbiZ4]

...small o-rings around the plastic ends

There is really no plastic, it's metal.

..the small o-rings around the plastic ends on the hoses that plug into the aluminum block on the pump assembly?

No, I meant the o-ring on the brass valve on top of the pump. Can't be replaced. I've already shot one pump to hell by doing this under hydraulic pressure.

[RobbiZ4]

... until yesterday i had driven somewhere with my top down, and i began closing it but it got stuck halfway.

Is that the situation, that led to the position on the quoted photo?

[thee89]

Everything about that picture is how it was when it failed EXCEPT the trunk lid. we used the emergency pull cable inside the trunk to open the lid by reaching through the opening. you may not have emergency trunk pull cables in germany, but i believe they are required by law here in the US.
so replace the o-rings on the 2 hoses we disconnected? what about the internal o-ring for the brass screw? best to just focus on switches, sensors and wires to see if we can get it going again and see if it leaks?

[RobbiZ4]

Thanks for clarifying.

Well, as written already several times. Don't touch the pump except it's lying under water and has massive corrosion on the lower side of the motor.

[thee89]

Is that the situation, that led to the position on the quoted photo?

Yes, it worked fine when i put the top down. when i got to my destination i began to put the top up and it stopped in that exact position. i pulled my car into wet pee’s garage and started doing some research. we then opened the trunk lid with the emergency pull cable and after a long night of pulling apart the trunk interior and trying to locate and identify switches and sensors I made my initial post here. Yesterday, we fiddled with the pump and released pressure to move the two panels up to the windshield as shown in the second picture.

[RobbiZ4]

Hope you didn't destroy your pump. It's really no playground.

Well, keep an eye on the two hall sensors plugged into the right hydraulic ram of the trunk lid. You have to support the lid with a broomstick and remove the silver clip at the end of the support arm.
To move the arm, the brass valve to the front has to be released.

Remove the zip tie around the hydraulic ram, don't forget to replaced it with a new one later on.
Take photos, take photos, take photos of it's exact position.
Push a tiny screwdriver horizontally between the ram's body and the black hall sensor to push it vertically(!) down.
Have a very close look at the front side (opposite of the wires) of it. Take a very sharp photo of it. If you can see a rusty red/pink line, it has to be replaced. If it's in perfect condition, no cracked housing anywhere, you can remount it. Don't forget the new zip tie around it together with it's plug.
Check the 2nd hall sensor the same way.

[wetpee]

Thanks for the guidance and my apologies for the redundant posts. it was about ~5am for us having just gotten home from a night of work.
We'll be checking that out tomorrow evening. A few questions we thought of today:
1) The car got bumped into in the rear and recently fixed at a body shop. there was a dent in the rear bumper and trunk lid, honestly not too bad. very low speed crash. how likely could sensor failure be related to the crash? will post pictures soon.
2) do we have to worry about air being in the lines since dismounting them from the pump? is this also the concern for maintaining the position of the ram when reassembling the hose there or is it more about not putting uneven forces on the lift arms, etc.?
3) Is there another way to check proper function of the sensors?
We tried to use a DMM to check continuity of the placement tray hall sensor with and without a steel object placed on the magnetic part of the sensor. I don't remember what the result of this test was, and we also had a complication with our first DMM we used for testing as the battery was dead so it wasn't reading voltages properly. Today I had the realization that this method might not work as my new assumption is that CTM would just detect a change in voltage or resistance, not an open or closed circuit.
Thanks for the correction on the hose end material. Idk why I would have thought they might be plastic lol.
Does anyone a part number or specs for those hose o-rings? I'm plenty familiar with finding small replacement hardware from my experience working on airsoft replicas.

Thanks,
Evan J

[RobbiZ4]

1) no sensor issue to expect
2) air is not a problem, don't care about it if the oil level is ok
3) 1st choice to check the HS visually as written! rusty = dead, not rusty = ok, issues CAN'T BE MEASURED.
Check unplugged with Ohm meter: 33k static or 133k continously descending without any metal nearby
4) if there is no leakage you don't need new ones NBR70 3.3x1.0

[flybobbie]

I tested Hall sensor with 9volt battery in series with voltmeter..
Voltage doesn't change but measure the current, that changes if you pass steel over sensor.

I will be going into action with my roof problems today.
Tough mission...wish me luck

[RobbiZ4]

I tested Hall sensor with 9volt battery in series with voltmeter..
Voltage doesn't change but measure the current, that changes if you pass steel over sensor.

To be honest, this is nonsense regarding identifying an issue with it.
These hall sensors may fail on their magnetic field detection, if there is an issue. Interestingly I've never seen an electrically "dead" hall sensor.

We didn't identify a reproduceable way to measure it's magnetical behaviour up to now. It's easier to just replace both on the right ram with the cheap new ones (E88) than digging around with metals, ohmmeteres or anything else.

[RobbiZ4]

I have a third roof problem occur last week.
Rear shell stopped half way. Code reader says faulty sensor but i know it will be a broken wire.

I agree, as it's the typical fault after 8-10 years.

[flybobbie]

Well the battle was lost today.
Found my previous repair had broken, the wires were too small i size, broke at solder joint..
So decided to replace both pairs of wires rear shell Hall sensor and micro switch with some 10amp mains cable..
Then extended new wire down the arms in the trunk.
All worked fine, until i tided it all up.

Now says Roof System!
No faults on the code reader.

I see the front hooks on the top of windshield that lock the roof shell not moving, the cabin roof trim removed.
Only way to get things moving is to disconnect left limited and manually press the right limit.
Rear shell will then move back and lock.
But front not locked.

Round two tomorrow, retreat and regroup, new attack plan.

[RobbiZ4]

Use high flexible wires (LIFY 0,25 mm), not thicker ones. There are only 4 mA to support, no nuclear power plant!
And once again check the polarity of the two wires of the hall sensor in the roof shell. It's orientation is important, for the microswitch it doesn't matter.

Don't underestimate that there is a second critical arc horizontally on the inner side of the arms where the wires can also break.

[flybobbie]

Yes removed the the guide plate from the lower arm, wondering if something on the bottom bend gone wrong.
But code reader says no breaks.
But it's not driving the latch in the roof to lock it.
The window frame micro clicks, so at this point assuming that is working.