Scrapage Scheme Madness

[True-Blue]

We bought my Mrs daily, a 65 plate Kia Rio on 3800 miles at 6 months old for circa £7200 outright. It’s done around 45k miles now and is still worth circa £4K in the current market.

I appreciate this is far from a ‘high end’ car, but it’s relatively economical, has been incredibly reliable and has been perfect for the mileage she does locally.

This kind of ‘value motoring’ is going to disappear completely with the move to EV’s.

[SonnyA85]

Someone is ploughing a lone furrow in this thread championing EV's and failing to convince anyone.

But I want one...as my commuter vehicle...and I'll keep the Z4MC as a fun/track/weekend car.

I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make financial sense to me right now (I can't buy anything for £15k that could replace my F31 320D). BMW do make an electric 3-series now (the i3...not that one...it's different to the original boxy model), but it's not available in the UK yet...and it's 4x my budget (based on the i4 starting at £53k).

2022-06-05_18-17-39.jpg

A plug in hybrid could replace that. The more up front cost you get back with the savings on diesel.

You can get hybrid diesel vehicles also but my experience is only with lexus which had been a fantastic car. I'm thinking of getting another lexus in future when I go all electric now they have all electric versions

[mmm-five]

Someone is ploughing a lone furrow in this thread championing EV's and failing to convince anyone.

But I want one...as my commuter vehicle...and I'll keep the Z4MC as a fun/track/weekend car.

I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make financial sense to me right now (I can't buy anything for £15k that could replace my F31 320D). BMW do make an electric 3-series now (the i3...not that one...it's different to the original boxy model), but it's not available in the UK yet...and it's 4x my budget (based on the i4 starting at £53k).

2022-06-05_18-17-39.jpg

A plug in hybrid could replace that. The more up front cost you get back with the savings on diesel.

You can get hybrid diesel vehicles also but my experience is only with lexus which had been a fantastic car. I'm thinking of getting another lexus in future when I go all electric now they have all electric versions

What model do you have, and what’s it’s “real world” economy on a 200-300 mile non-stop journey?

My 320D returns no lower than 45mpg no matter how I drive (including hooning through Wales, Scotland, Germany)…and the OBC is currently showing 47.5mpg which includes a recent 1400 mile trip to do the NC500. Official WLTP figures for it are 59-64mpg…so I have a leaden right foot

I’d like to replicate this in an EV or hybrid…and I know I’m probably an edge-case here as most other buyers would do a 20-40 mile commute on purely electric power and charge each night.

[True-Blue]

But I want one...as my commuter vehicle...and I'll keep the Z4MC as a fun/track/weekend car.

I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make financial sense to me right now (I can't buy anything for £15k that could replace my F31 320D). BMW do make an electric 3-series now (the i3...not that one...it's different to the original boxy model), but it's not available in the UK yet...and it's 4x my budget (based on the i4 starting at £53k).

2022-06-05_18-17-39.jpg

A plug in hybrid could replace that. The more up front cost you get back with the savings on diesel.

You can get hybrid diesel vehicles also but my experience is only with lexus which had been a fantastic car. I'm thinking of getting another lexus in future when I go all electric now they have all electric versions

What model do you have, and what’s it’s “real world” economy on a 200-300 mile non-stop journey?

My 320D returns no lower than 45mpg no matter how I drive (including hooning through Wales, Scotland, Germany)…and the OBC is currently showing 47.5mpg which includes a recent 1400 mile trip to do the NC500. Official WLTP figures for it are 59-64mpg…so I have a leaden right foot

I’d like to replicate this in an EV or hybrid…and I know I’m probably an edge-case here as most other buyers would do a 20-40 mile commute on purely electric power and charge each night.

A few guys in work have the 330E plug in and moan about how uneconomical they are. Basically a 2.0 4 pot turbo with ability to run on electric only for around 30 miles IIRC. So decent if your doing local trips but anything further than 15 Miles out and your running on petrol if you don’t stop to charge up again.

Makes a mockery of the road tax & company car tax too as if you do any decent mileage nowhere near as clean as they claim. Cars like the Mitsubishi PLEV fall into this category too, claim something like 123mpg which is laughable.

My company car is a 2019 Prius, I view it as a tool and nothing more, it’s not that difficult to achieve real world mpg of 65MPG, measured by checking miles driven against litres used. I suspect it’s actually cleaner than the 330E but as it has very limited ‘electric only’ range the CO2 figures can’t compete for ‘testing’ purposes.

I would not recommend the Prius for any kind of driver involvement, that’s what my Z4 is for.

[SonnyA85]

But I want one...as my commuter vehicle...and I'll keep the Z4MC as a fun/track/weekend car.

I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make financial sense to me right now (I can't buy anything for £15k that could replace my F31 320D). BMW do make an electric 3-series now (the i3...not that one...it's different to the original boxy model), but it's not available in the UK yet...and it's 4x my budget (based on the i4 starting at £53k).

2022-06-05_18-17-39.jpg

A plug in hybrid could replace that. The more up front cost you get back with the savings on diesel.

You can get hybrid diesel vehicles also but my experience is only with lexus which had been a fantastic car. I'm thinking of getting another lexus in future when I go all electric now they have all electric versions

What model do you have, and what’s it’s “real world” economy on a 200-300 mile non-stop journey?

My 320D returns no lower than 45mpg no matter how I drive (including hooning through Wales, Scotland, Germany)…and the OBC is currently showing 47.5mpg which includes a recent 1400 mile trip to do the NC500. Official WLTP figures for it are 59-64mpg…so I have a leaden right foot

I’d like to replicate this in an EV or hybrid…and I know I’m probably an edge-case here as most other buyers would do a 20-40 mile commute on purely electric power and charge each night.

The equivalent model for you is most likely an IS300.

They should return around 50-55mpg driven in any mode; bare in mind petrol is substantially cheaper than diesel so the equivalent in a diesel would have to be 65mpg or the likes. It's a 2.5 litre petrol engine with self charging hybrid. 183bhp but that doesn't tell the full story the electric motor makes it feel rapid especially in sport mode. I drive only in sport mode everywhere and I see no difference in mpg but a massive difference in performance. Make sure you buy an f sport model they are fully kitted out with toys and £15k gets you a 2016 is300 f sport. The f sport also has sports styling and suspension basically the equivalent of an m sport on BMW but with better toys for the money.

Reliability of lexus is also second to none. I think for you self charging is better than plug in for higher miles per day.

If you only do 30-40 miles per day then plug in hybrid is better.

[mmm-five]

Thanks SonnyA85 and True-Blue

[SonnyA85]

A plug in hybrid could replace that. The more up front cost you get back with the savings on diesel.

You can get hybrid diesel vehicles also but my experience is only with lexus which had been a fantastic car. I'm thinking of getting another lexus in future when I go all electric now they have all electric versions

What model do you have, and what’s it’s “real world” economy on a 200-300 mile non-stop journey?

My 320D returns no lower than 45mpg no matter how I drive (including hooning through Wales, Scotland, Germany)…and the OBC is currently showing 47.5mpg which includes a recent 1400 mile trip to do the NC500. Official WLTP figures for it are 59-64mpg…so I have a leaden right foot

I’d like to replicate this in an EV or hybrid…and I know I’m probably an edge-case here as most other buyers would do a 20-40 mile commute on purely electric power and charge each night.

A few guys in work have the 330E plug in and moan about how uneconomical they are. Basically a 2.0 4 pot turbo with ability to run on electric only for around 30 miles IIRC. So decent if your doing local trips but anything further than 15 Miles out and your running on petrol if you don’t stop to charge up again.

Makes a mockery of the road tax & company car tax too as if you do any decent mileage nowhere near as clean as they claim. Cars like the Mitsubishi PLEV fall into this category too, claim something like 123mpg which is laughable.

My company car is a 2019 Prius, I view it as a tool and nothing more, it’s not that difficult to achieve real world mpg of 65MPG, measured by checking miles driven against litres used. I suspect it’s actually cleaner than the 330E but as it has very limited ‘electric only’ range the CO2 figures can’t compete for ‘testing’ purposes.

I would not recommend the Prius for any kind of driver involvement, that’s what my Z4 is for.

Is your Prius self charging or plug in hybrid?

Self charging uses the electric motor at all speeds and distances. Lexus do a fancy Prius. Well they used to they have discontinued it here in the UK. The Ct200h. When I was reading about them before petrol prices went up. £30 worth of petrol gave circa 400+ miles of driving sometimes 430 miles. Now fuel is more I think a tank these days is probably more like £40. The tank holds a good 5-10 litres when the range says zero. So you are better off doing what you do and compare actual litres put into the car and how far you got on your last reset on fill up.

The Prius is Toyota's test car. All new technology goes into the Prius first before any other car. That's why the Prius is so expensive these days. Same price as the Lexus equivalent even though it's not as nice to look at or be inside.

If you like what the Prius does but don't like the looks then the Toyota auris is the same car in a different chassis. As is the new corolla. So is the Lexus ct200h.

Which means you can use Toyota parts for servicing the Lexus if you use the same equivalent models which makes the Lexus cheaper to run.

I used Toyota transmission fluid and Toyota pink coolant on my recent service. You can sometimes get the equivalent parts too on eBay if you find out if the same engine is used on a Toyota and searching for them on eBay.

The Lexus is like Audi to Toyota's VW/Skoda. But after purchasing the Lexus you can essentially maintain them using Toyota prices if the same setup is in a Toyota vehicle too.

[Pondrew]

A few guys in work have the 330E plug in and moan about how uneconomical they are. Basically a 2.0 4 pot turbo with ability to run on electric only for around 30 miles IIRC. So decent if your doing local trips but anything further than 15 Miles out and your running on petrol if you don’t stop to charge up again.

Those type of 'hybrids' were introduced to purely take advantage of RFL and income tax benefits for company car drivers that our Government introduced as an incentive in their infinite wisdom. They have absolutely nothing to offer the 'save the planet' argument. 19 mile battery range? Seriously? WTF use is that?

Another brilliant marketing ploy is the 'mild hybrid'. No batteries, just electrical regen on lift. Fecking useless.

You can shove your EVs, I'm sticking with liquid trees (that actually rhymes too)........

[True-Blue]

A few guys in work have the 330E plug in and moan about how uneconomical they are. Basically a 2.0 4 pot turbo with ability to run on electric only for around 30 miles IIRC. So decent if your doing local trips but anything further than 15 Miles out and your running on petrol if you don’t stop to charge up again.

Those type of 'hybrids' were introduced to purely take advantage of RFL and income tax benefits for company car drivers that our Government introduced as an incentive in their infinite wisdom. They have absolutely nothing to offer the 'save the planet' argument. 19 mile battery range? Seriously? WTF use is that?

Another brilliant marketing ploy is the 'mild hybrid'. No batteries, just electrical regen on lift. Fecking useless.

You can shove your EVs, I'm sticking with liquid trees (that actually rhymes too)........

I agree, there were specific reasons why I opted for the Prius and it had nothing to do with the fact that it is a self charging hybrid. I wouldn’t go electric out of choice currently, and I wouldn’t buy a Prius with my own money either

[axelleveau]

Another brilliant marketing ploy is the 'mild hybrid'. No batteries, just electrical regen on lift. Fecking useless.

Can you justify that? Having a battery about 100th the size of an EV battery that enables about 15% fuel save on urban drive? You'd prefer wasting this as heat in the brakes?

Sorry Pondrew, nothing personnal but I just picked your comment here as it was at the end of the thread and a good example of claims without any proof.

To everyone either worshiping or hating on EVs, please take the time to read before commenting some misconceptions. Taking example of EVs that are 5 years old or more does not make sense the industry is moving extremely fast and cars are becoming extremely robust and capable. Also for everyone worshiping hydrogen, please have a look at what it takes to integrate that in a car, how much it will cost to produce it and to develop the infrastructure for it and compare it to EVs, then we'll talk

[Pondrew]

Can you justify that? Having a battery about 100th the size of an EV battery that enables about 15% fuel save on urban drive? You'd prefer wasting this as heat in the brakes?

Sorry Pondrew, nothing personnal but I just picked your comment here as it was at the end of the thread and a good example of claims without any proof.

No offence taken by me! I don't do being offended. I also don't do 'linkys' to justify my opinions; they are mine and you can take them or leave them.

The post was mainly a dig at the marketing in the last few years where 'buy our hybrid and you will help save the planet' when they will do nothin g of the kind. I detest bullsh*t, and in the 54 years I have been on the planet, the last few years have seen more and more of it in every walk of life and it seems OK to spout it without question.

[MikeyH]

Here, Here. +1

[rdgreen]

Did I see someone mention "range anxiety"? This is range anxiety, when running out of fuel can literally be a life or death situation. Might work in the city's but no EV's out there.

[Nanu]

For £50 a month extra, I'll stick with petrol thanks.

Me too.

These leasing charges will increase once road pricing kicks in or they slap a VEL on EV’s to replace the money lost on petrol car excise duty

[tiglon]

Did I see someone mention "range anxiety"? This is range anxiety, when running out of fuel can literally be a life or death situation. Might work in the city's but no EV's out there.

In that situation I'd be screwed in my Z4 too