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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Discussion of other cars non-Z4
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pvr
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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by pvr » Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:43 am

Only reason I ordered an EV was because as a director I can buy it from my gross income and not nett. That makes the saving worthwhile
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Post by tiglon » Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:27 am

pvr wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:43 am Only reason I ordered an EV was because as a director I can buy it from my gross income and not nett. That makes the saving worthwhile
And that's the only reason I would get one at the moment.

I often wonder what % of EVs you see are leased via a salary sacrifice scheme or similar...
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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by SonnyA85 » Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:21 pm

MikeyH wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:49 pm
SonnyA85 wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:16 pm
MikeyH wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 4:30 pm As I previously said I like many other people either don’t want to or can’t afford to spend over £40,000 on a new ev. So we would end up with an old ev with an end of life battery costing over £5000 for a new one. That’s the cost of a decent low ish mileage ice car. Yes I would love to buy an ev but it is not financially possible for many people.
Majority of people aren't buying them but leasing them.

When your leasing a car and it's £350 a month for the petrol and a model 3 is £450 a month. You then take into account that you spend £200 a month in fuel and the electric car costs £50 a month to charge. You then see you are saving money.

Especially if you use the various mileage schemes if you have a business car the savings become even larger.
Yes but that is a lot of money per month just to have a new car wether EV or ICE. Buy a used car for £5000.00 and keep it for 5 years that is only £1000.00 per year or less than £90.00 per month. And you ain’t on the leasing hamster wheel for years just to have a new car. Older cars are much better made than they were 10 years ago with less to go wrong.
People buying new cars aren't the type to spend £5k on a 15-20 year old car.

It's like saying to someone going on holiday to the Maldives that Blackpool is cheaper.

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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by True-Blue » Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:52 pm

SonnyA85 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:21 pm
MikeyH wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:49 pm
SonnyA85 wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:16 pm

Majority of people aren't buying them but leasing them.

When your leasing a car and it's £350 a month for the petrol and a model 3 is £450 a month. You then take into account that you spend £200 a month in fuel and the electric car costs £50 a month to charge. You then see you are saving money.

Especially if you use the various mileage schemes if you have a business car the savings become even larger.
Yes but that is a lot of money per month just to have a new car wether EV or ICE. Buy a used car for £5000.00 and keep it for 5 years that is only £1000.00 per year or less than £90.00 per month. And you ain’t on the leasing hamster wheel for years just to have a new car. Older cars are much better made than they were 10 years ago with less to go wrong.
People buying new cars aren't the type to spend £5k on a 15-20 year old car.

It's like saying to someone going on holiday to the Maldives that Blackpool is cheaper.
Thought they were leasing them? And your argument was that they are cheaper?

Fairly sure the environmental impact of flying (or cruising) to the Maldives is much worse that driving to Blackpool in a 2nd hand non-electric car

I think a valid point here is that something like a 6 cylinder Z4 is capable of 200k miles with regular servicing.

Currently battery tech is flawed and has nowhere near that capability, and replacement battery costs are prohibitive compared to the value of the vehicle.

So we have a so-called green tech, that is far from green to make and currently appears almost ‘disposable’ compared to previous ICE tech… because most people lease them??
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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by SonnyA85 » Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:55 pm

True-Blue wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:52 pm
SonnyA85 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:21 pm
MikeyH wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:49 pm
Yes but that is a lot of money per month just to have a new car wether EV or ICE. Buy a used car for £5000.00 and keep it for 5 years that is only £1000.00 per year or less than £90.00 per month. And you ain’t on the leasing hamster wheel for years just to have a new car. Older cars are much better made than they were 10 years ago with less to go wrong.
People buying new cars aren't the type to spend £5k on a 15-20 year old car.

It's like saying to someone going on holiday to the Maldives that Blackpool is cheaper.
Thought they were leasing them? And your argument was that they are cheaper?

Fairly sure the environmental impact of flying (or cruising) to the Maldives is much worse that driving to Blackpool in a 2nd hand non-electric car

I think a valid point here is that something like a 6 cylinder Z4 is capable of 200k miles with regular servicing.

Currently battery tech is flawed and has nowhere near that capability, and replacement battery costs are prohibitive compared to the value of the vehicle.

So we have a so-called green tech, that is far from green to make and currently appears almost ‘disposable’ compared to previous ICE tech… because most people lease them??
Leasing or buying doesn't make a difference. People who buy or lease brand new cars aren't in the market for a £5k car.

It's cheaper than equivalent ice car when leasing especially through business mileage schemes.

You cannot compare a 20 year old car with a brand new EV.

Also batteries can be refurbished. I can get a refurbed battery for my lexus for £900

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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by mmm-five » Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:28 pm

So, how does everyone afford these all-electric cars? Surely not every car driver can afford a brand new car - even if they are 'only leasing' one? Some people will need the £5k/10k/15k/20k used car price points (as there will also be some needing the ICE cars that are dumped below the £5k mark).

I know I can't...and I'm relatively well paid...but it's purely because I can't commit to any long-term lease as I don't know that I'll need a car for 24/36/48 months at a time...and I'd be stuck paying a lease on a car that's not being used...and to get the best price I'd either have to sign up to a longer lease, or restrict the mileage.

WITHOUT LOOKING...anyone have any idea how much a (for example) 3+21 month lease for a Hyundai Ioniq 5 would be (one above base 168kW / 77kWh with 256 mile range - to ensure I can drive the 210 miles to the office without having to stop for 30 mins on the way), if I was to return to say a 25,000 mile a year commute?
  1. less
  2. £450
  3. £600
  4. £750
  5. more
ETA: no-one answered, so here's the quote I got...
2022-06-05_16-34-01.jpg
2022-06-05_16-34-01.jpg (175.26 KiB) Viewed 661 times
Last edited by mmm-five on Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by True-Blue » Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:26 pm

SonnyA85 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:55 pm
True-Blue wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:52 pm
SonnyA85 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:21 pm People buying new cars aren't the type to spend £5k on a 15-20 year old car.

It's like saying to someone going on holiday to the Maldives that Blackpool is cheaper.
Thought they were leasing them? And your argument was that they are cheaper?

Fairly sure the environmental impact of flying (or cruising) to the Maldives is much worse that driving to Blackpool in a 2nd hand non-electric car

I think a valid point here is that something like a 6 cylinder Z4 is capable of 200k miles with regular servicing.

Currently battery tech is flawed and has nowhere near that capability, and replacement battery costs are prohibitive compared to the value of the vehicle.

So we have a so-called green tech, that is far from green to make and currently appears almost ‘disposable’ compared to previous ICE tech… because most people lease them??
Leasing or buying doesn't make a difference. People who buy or lease brand new cars aren't in the market for a £5k car.

It's cheaper than equivalent ice car when leasing especially through business mileage schemes.

You cannot compare a 20 year old car with a brand new EV.

Also batteries can be refurbished. I can get a refurbed battery for my lexus for £900
Is your Lexus fully electric? £900 seems way below any kind of indicative costs I can see anywhere.

What does this £900 include? Removal, refitting, VAT? And what sort of warranty does this give? Genuinely intrigued as everything I read suggests very significant battery replacement costs :?
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Scrapage Scheme Madness

Post by Scubaregs » Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:55 pm

Someone is ploughing a lone furrow in this thread championing EV's and failing to convince anyone.
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Post by SonnyA85 » Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:59 pm

True-Blue wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:26 pm
SonnyA85 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:55 pm
True-Blue wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:52 pm

Thought they were leasing them? And your argument was that they are cheaper?

Fairly sure the environmental impact of flying (or cruising) to the Maldives is much worse that driving to Blackpool in a 2nd hand non-electric car

I think a valid point here is that something like a 6 cylinder Z4 is capable of 200k miles with regular servicing.

Currently battery tech is flawed and has nowhere near that capability, and replacement battery costs are prohibitive compared to the value of the vehicle.

So we have a so-called green tech, that is far from green to make and currently appears almost ‘disposable’ compared to previous ICE tech… because most people lease them??
Leasing or buying doesn't make a difference. People who buy or lease brand new cars aren't in the market for a £5k car.

It's cheaper than equivalent ice car when leasing especially through business mileage schemes.

You cannot compare a 20 year old car with a brand new EV.

Also batteries can be refurbished. I can get a refurbed battery for my lexus for £900
Is your Lexus fully electric? £900 seems way below any kind of indicative costs I can see anywhere.

What does this £900 include? Removal, refitting, VAT? And what sort of warranty does this give? Genuinely intrigued as everything I read suggests very significant battery replacement costs :?
It's a hybrid. And it's the cost of a full replacement refurbished battery.

You can remove and fit like you would any other battery. Disconnect. Remove and replace. Videos on YouTube.

Fully electric will obviously cost more but if I went to lexus and say I needed a new battery it's like £5k. Refurbished £900.

You go to Tesla and need a new battery it's £15k. You will also be able to once there are enough spares. Get a refurbished one for like £5k or around that.

The Lexus hybrid system has been around for 25 years now. That's why they are so cheap and the second hand market and forums plenty knowledgeable.

Same thing will happen to ev market. They aren't just going to take batteries and start sending them to landfill.

Only a few cells die. They can be replaced with cells from other non fully functional batteries. Like you take 10 batteries and turn them into 6-8 and give them another 10-15 years of use.

A guy in America uses one as a courier and has done 1 million miles in his with zero issues he does 100k miles per year as a courier.

The battery tech these days is nothing like the horror stories you hear people talking about

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Post by mmm-five » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:16 pm

Scubaregs wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:55 pm Someone is ploughing a lone furrow in this thread championing EV's and failing to convince anyone.
But I want one...as my commuter vehicle...and I'll keep the Z4MC as a fun/track/weekend car.

I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make financial sense to me right now (I can't buy anything for £15k that could replace my F31 320D). BMW do make an electric 3-series now (the i3...not that one...it's different to the original boxy model), but it's not available in the UK yet...and it's 4x my budget (based on the i4 starting at £53k).
2022-06-05_18-17-39.jpg
2022-06-05_18-17-39.jpg (186.2 KiB) Viewed 652 times
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Post by True-Blue » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:20 pm

mmm-five wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:28 pm So, how does everyone afford these all-electric cars? Surely not every car driver can afford a brand new car - even if they are 'only leasing' one? Some people will need the £5k/10k/15k/20k used car price points (as there will also be some needing the ICE cars that are dumped below the £5k mark).

I know I can't...and I'm relatively well paid...but it's purely because I can't commit to any long-term lease as I don't know that I'll need a car for 24/36/48 months at a time...and I'd be stuck paying a lease on a car that's not being used...and to get the best price I'd either have to sign up to a longer lease, or restrict the mileage.

WITHOUT LOOKING...anyone have any idea how much a (for example) 3+21 month lease for a Hyundai Ioniq 5 would be (one above base 168kW / 77kWh with 256 mile range - to ensure I can drive the 210 miles to the office without having to stop for 30 mins on the way), if I was to return to say a 25,000 mile a year commute?
  1. less
  2. £450
  3. £600
  4. £750
  5. more
ETA: no-one answered, so here's the quote I got...
2022-06-05_16-34-01.jpg
So, to rent that car for 50,000 miles over 24 months is £24k before servicing costs… and you have to hand it back :rofl:
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Previous Z4’s :E89 30i, E89 20i, E85 3.0Si (X4) E85 3.0i, E86 3.0 Si, E85 2.5si, E85 2.5i

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Post by Scubaregs » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:29 pm

mmm-five wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:16 pm But I want one...as my commuter vehicle...and I'll keep the Z4MC as a fun/track/weekend car.

I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make financial sense to me right now
Exactly, this is the crux of the matter, the cost of them compared to their petrol counterparts.
True-Blue wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:20 pm So, to rent that car for 50,000 miles over 24 months is £27k before servicing costs… and you have to hand it back :rofl:
But it saves you money.........
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Post by pvr » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:32 pm

It only saves you money if you can do it through a company.

I can deduct 100% against the company’s profits saving 21% corp tax, saves employers NI and saves me 34% dividend tax.

As an individual - no way, but this way does save me a lot of money but cannot be don’t by everyone of course
Current:
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X5M - 575 hp of fun in a V8
Abarth 595 Comp.
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Previous:
Z4M Silver Grey - non flimper spec (gone to Bing)
Z4 3.0 Toledo

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Post by True-Blue » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:42 pm

pvr wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:32 pm It only saves you money if you can do it through a company.

I can deduct 100% against the company’s profits saving 21% corp tax, saves employers NI and saves me 34% dividend tax.

As an individual - no way, but this way does save me a lot of money but cannot be don’t by everyone of course
I detected a hint of sarcasm in Scubaregs post :)
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Previous Z4’s :E89 30i, E89 20i, E85 3.0Si (X4) E85 3.0i, E86 3.0 Si, E85 2.5si, E85 2.5i

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Post by Scubaregs » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:47 pm

True-Blue wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:42 pm
pvr wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:32 pm It only saves you money if you can do it through a company.

I can deduct 100% against the company’s profits saving 21% corp tax, saves employers NI and saves me 34% dividend tax.

As an individual - no way, but this way does save me a lot of money but cannot be don’t by everyone of course
I detected a hint of sarcasm in Scubaregs post :)
Moi? :-P
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