Scrapage Scheme Madness

[Scubaregs]

I think you’re picking parts of people's responses that suit your argument;

^Exactly this.^

[Nanu]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

Its OK to say it only takes so many minutes to charge at a motorway service station for instance and you can go for a coffee. But what if the person whose car is on charge decides to make it a two hour lunch break/ Just because their car is charged doesn't mean they are coming to shift it for you.

As for oil shortages and zero incentive to drill for more, Rubbish. We have enough oil of out own to last all of our lifetimes and Sunak when imposing a windfall tax said the Oil companies can claim up to 90% back if thy invest in more production in the UK.

If anything is going to depose petrol cars it hydrogen. Their is a huge investment these parts taking place on Teesside in Hydrogen production running into billions backed by the Qatar sovereign wealth fund. That's the future not electric.

[Scubaregs]

Nanu, agreed.

[SonnyA85]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

Is every drive you do 300-400 miles?

No but that's usually when I need a break on a long drive. That's when it will also need charging so it's killing 2 birds with 1 stone

[SonnyA85]

Keep seeing the argument that the charge time of 30-45 minutes is what you would spend on a toilet food break at a service station, however you don't always need a toilet or food break.

The other point to consider is the amount of cars ahead of you waiting to use the chargers available. It's minutes wait at a petrol station in such a case, potentially hours at a busy charging station.

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

The tech is here today.

We do 6-8k miles in our main car.

That's say 580 miles per month.

That's 2 charges per month.

My other car does 2k a year. That's 1 charge every 3 months.

For high mileage hybrids will likely be the stop gap until tech catches up for them to only need to charge weekly and a charge will take 30 mins.

You can charge a phone now in 15 minutes to full. 120W charging on the new gen phones. 15 mins to full battery.

More powerful charging will come to cars as it currently is improving all the time.

[True-Blue]

So you can drive 300-400 miles and not need a toilet or food and drink break?

It would be good to take a break just from the driving when you are covering that type of distance.

You can now drive from London to Glasgow on the majority of modern ev's with some needing a 15 minute top up on such a distance.

Older ones yeah have issues. But that shows how much the tecnis improving on a yearly basis.

I imagine a breakthrough in tech and even sunroofs made of solar panels and you will see that you will only need to charge the car once per month for the average driver.

So someone who lives in a flat will have to for an hour once per month park up somewhere and charge their car.

If only there was these places called shops people tend to go to regularly for an hour or so every few days.

Charging points will eventually be installed in every bay in every car park.

Portable charging is already a thing. Whoever mentioned trailing wires across a street or road. There is no need. You charge a battery. Roll it to your car. Then the battery charges your car battery.

You would have a communal battery pack or two for a block of flats.

Elon is planning for life on Mars so I'm pretty sure he will overcome these minor issues with ease.

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

The tech is here today.

We do 6-8k miles in our main car.

That's say 580 miles per month.

That's 2 charges per month.

My other car does 2k a year. That's 1 charge every 3 months.

For high mileage hybrids will likely be the stop gap until tech catches up for them to only need to charge weekly and a charge will take 30 mins.

You can charge a phone now in 15 minutes to full. 120W charging on the new gen phones. 15 mins to full battery.

More powerful charging will come to cars as it currently is improving all the time.

6-8k p.a. Is way below average mileage and why would anyone currently buy a brand new electric car as a second car to do 2k miles P.A.

Now making points that are very specific to you, and fit your argument - the general population don’t fit your model and maths here.

Also conveniently avoiding any arguments around the impact of mining, the timescale for having charging points in every parking space, the environmental impact of recycling dead batteries etc, etc…

In addition, I think range anxiety will be very real for many years… until you are able to charge up literally everywhere.

[SonnyA85]

I think you’re picking parts of peoples responses that suit your argument;

Cars that need to be charged once a month…. By 20?? Realistically, this sort of tech is likely decades away.

Solar panel sun roofs, great idea, but if it was that easy to generate large amounts of electricity those going for solar panels on their house roof would have a couple of discrete panels, not their entire roof covered.

You could spec a solar roof on a Prius at one point, it was expensive and achieved very little.

Battery packs that you roll to your car; How big are these going to be? how and where will you store this in your flat? How are you going to get it down the stairs? Are you going to have to sit in your car while it charges in case someone steals your charger?

Communal battery packs for blocks of flats; will there be a rota for when it’s your turn?

Every parking bay will have a charging point… by When? 2030? I don’t think so.

The tech is here today.

We do 6-8k miles in our main car.

That's say 580 miles per month.

That's 2 charges per month.

My other car does 2k a year. That's 1 charge every 3 months.

For high mileage hybrids will likely be the stop gap until tech catches up for them to only need to charge weekly and a charge will take 30 mins.

You can charge a phone now in 15 minutes to full. 120W charging on the new gen phones. 15 mins to full battery.

More powerful charging will come to cars as it currently is improving all the time.

6-8k p.a. Is way below average mileage and why would anyone currently buy a brand new electric car as a second car to do 2k miles P.A.

Now making points that are very specific to you, and fit your argument - the general population don’t fit your model and maths here.

Also conveniently avoiding any arguments around the impact of mining, the timescale for having charging points in every parking space, the environmental impact of recycling dead batteries etc, etc…

In addition, I think range anxiety will be very real for many years… until you are able to charge up literally everywhere.

Range anxiety? Cars today can do 300-400 miles and I can charge at home.

I will only need to charge up once every 3-4 years whenever we decide to go to London other than that it will be charged at home for me.

There are issues. I'm not denying that. Those will all be ironed out over time.

Range is not an issue for majority of people. How many people do you know who do 300+ miles per day? Even Amazon has switched to electric delivery vans. My local organic fruit and veg shop delivers in a EV.

The more people that adopt the more chargers will also spring up.

Charging will be available because petrol forecourts will be a thing of the past. You will have to travel for 30 mins to find petrol in the future but an ev charger will be within 5 minutes if need be.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Scubaregs]

Range is THE big issue for the majority of people.

I bought a Corsa as a DD for work a few years ago when I had the 718. I do an 80 mile commute for work, I ran the figures for buying an EV Corsa vs the petrol version. By the time I'd recouped fuel costs on the difference in purchase price for the EV, the battery on the EV would have been at the end of its life. A tank of petrol was one fill up a week, including running around outwith the commute miles. 5 minutes tops at the petrol station.

As has been pointed out numerous times, you are making arguments to suit your situation, which is not indicative of the general population.

[Ole gits rule]

I have been looking at leasing SWMBO an EV, based other 8k miles per annum and the additional cost of the lease, it just does not pay with the cost of electric today.

I would love to do it but just not cost effective for me at the time

[mmm-five]

If I was only doing 2k a year, then I’d probably not own a car, and just use one of the car club schemes when I could get around on pubic transport. But of course some people live in areas or have personal/social needs where a car is a necessity.

I’d happily have an EV, and it would be used for my normal (i.e. pre-Covid) 30k a year mostly-motorway commute.

I’d ‘fill up’ much as I do now, so it’s full when I leave home in Liverpool, sits at the B&B in London all week, and gets driven back.

The only difference is that I’d have to ensure the B&B or the local street would allow me to charge up before my return trip, which is not significantly different to what I’d do had I driven the Z4M instead (like I used to for 150k miles)…but with the Z4M it only ever meant a quick trip to any petrol station to fill up.

My only issue with buying one right now is finding an equivalent to the my current 320d for the same price as I could get selling it (i.e. £14k).

[Nanu]

I was reading somewhere that it takes up to 10 years of running your average EV before you break even with costs versus savings. This is not taking into account that if we all get EV’s then excise duty will have to be replaced with charges per mile and charges for clean air zones will disappear so any savings will reduce dramatically.

In previous posts which I will not copy here, it assumes the range of EV as 580 miles equals 2 charges. That very much depends on how they are used. In winter months add heating, lights and any other comforts such as radio and these decrease the range substantially. Tech to increase range is hinted at and with fingers crossed but that is way in the future by which time hydrogen technology will have overtaken electric.

Fortunately or unfortunately these things will not come to pass in my lifetime.

[MikeyH]

As I previously said I like many other people either don’t want to or can’t afford to spend over £40,000 on a new ev. So we would end up with an old ev with an end of life battery costing over £5000 for a new one. That’s the cost of a decent low ish mileage ice car. Yes I would love to buy an ev but it is not financially possible for many people.

[SonnyA85]

As I previously said I like many other people either don’t want to or can’t afford to spend over £40,000 on a new ev. So we would end up with an old ev with an end of life battery costing over £5000 for a new one. That’s the cost of a decent low ish mileage ice car. Yes I would love to buy an ev but it is not financially possible for many people.

Majority of people aren't buying them but leasing them.

When your leasing a car and it's £350 a month for the petrol and a model 3 is £450 a month. You then take into account that you spend £200 a month in fuel and the electric car costs £50 a month to charge. You then see you are saving money.

Especially if you use the various mileage schemes if you have a business car the savings become even larger.

[Scubaregs]

For £50 a month extra, I'll stick with petrol thanks.

[MikeyH]

As I previously said I like many other people either don’t want to or can’t afford to spend over £40,000 on a new ev. So we would end up with an old ev with an end of life battery costing over £5000 for a new one. That’s the cost of a decent low ish mileage ice car. Yes I would love to buy an ev but it is not financially possible for many people.

Majority of people aren't buying them but leasing them.

When your leasing a car and it's £350 a month for the petrol and a model 3 is £450 a month. You then take into account that you spend £200 a month in fuel and the electric car costs £50 a month to charge. You then see you are saving money.

Especially if you use the various mileage schemes if you have a business car the savings become even larger.

Yes but that is a lot of money per month just to have a new car wether EV or ICE. Buy a used car for £5000.00 and keep it for 5 years that is only £1000.00 per year or less than £90.00 per month. And you ain’t on the leasing hamster wheel for years just to have a new car. Older cars are much better made than they were 10 years ago with less to go wrong.