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Aggrieved rant....!
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- Lifer
- Posts: 11075
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:27 pm
Aggrieved rant....!
What the hell is going on with common sense, or the huge lack of it, when a 77yr old lady in the village can drive again one month after a minor stroke, yet I can't drive for a year after two blackouts 4 and 5 months ago due to cough syncopy, now no issues after the doc made the correct call with meds, not had any issues since....?? it's not Sue, the lady I'm pissed at as I'm glad she's ok as she's very nice, but FFS even the doc said if it made any difference she'd happily give me a clean bill of health. But no, makes no difference, it's a year off the road, blanket, no arguments.
Pisses me off like I cant tell you....
Pisses me off like I cant tell you....
M roady...OEM CSL’s, strut brace, Remus back boxes, ZHP
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
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MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
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- Senior Member
- Posts: 1084
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:42 pm
Aggrieved rant....!
It's scary the number of old folk still on the road because they reckon it's better to have their license taken off them after an awful incident has occured than give it up before said incident occurs. As if their right to drive is somewhat more important than others right to safety.
I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. We sold my grandads car to get him off the road 2 years back. We just give him lifts now to wherever he needs to go.
I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. We sold my grandads car to get him off the road 2 years back. We just give him lifts now to wherever he needs to go.
- BeeEmm
- Senior Member
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- Location: London
Aggrieved rant....!
Have you come up with an age that you think people should stop driving?SonnyA85 wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 1:26 am It's scary the number of old folk still on the road because they reckon it's better to have their license taken off them after an awful incident has occured than give it up before said incident occurs. As if their right to drive is somewhat more important than others right to safety.
I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. We sold my grandads car to get him off the road 2 years back. We just give him lifts now to wherever he needs to go.
I used to have two boys and a girl. Now I have two Men and a Woman.
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- Senior Member
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Aggrieved rant....!
I suppose mental competence is the most important factor combined with reaction times.BeeEmm wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:56 amHave you come up with an age that you think people should stop driving?SonnyA85 wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 1:26 am It's scary the number of old folk still on the road because they reckon it's better to have their license taken off them after an awful incident has occured than give it up before said incident occurs. As if their right to drive is somewhat more important than others right to safety.
I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. We sold my grandads car to get him off the road 2 years back. We just give him lifts now to wherever he needs to go.
I would say once you hit 65 you should need to do another driving test every 2-5 years but it's a much more mental based test. Split 50/50 where a computer records your reaction time and ability to comprehend danger, etc. As well as a driving part. To see how you cope on the roads.
Remember people start retiring around this age so some people will be knackered and others fine.
My grandad is in his 80's when we finally got rid of his car for instance. So there is no specific age it depends on individual basis but I'd say retirement age sounds about right
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- Senior Member
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Aggrieved rant....!
There are unquestionably elderly people on the roads who shouldn’t be there. But dangerous driving is not just related to old age. Why do you think insurance premiums are so high for young drivers? The problem really is how you ‘weed out’ those who are dangerous before they cause an accident. I am sure that we all know people of all ages who are a menace. But it is wrong to generalise.
- Smartbear
- Lifer
- Posts: 13685
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- Location: a barn in Somerset
Aggrieved rant....!
And yet young drivers have the most accidents
Rob
Rob
e89 Sdrive 20i, plenty of mumbo & good economy-the thinking bears z4
e89 Sdrive 30i, this ones busted, pass me another...
e85 3.0si sold
- MikeyH
- Lifer
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Aggrieved rant....!
If we made drivers have a test at 65 yrs old and say 50% failed that would be half our membership, maybe me included.
Now, Sterling grey Z4 2.2 with cup holders, stubby aerial and sport seats. Roadsters ‘cause they’re great with the roof down.
Ford Anglia, Red Sprite, a few MG midgets, MGB Roadster and yellow Ford Capri, all gone many years now.
Ford Anglia, Red Sprite, a few MG midgets, MGB Roadster and yellow Ford Capri, all gone many years now.
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Online1536Z4
- Senior Member
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Aggrieved rant....!
You may change your mind when you are 65
Montego Blue E86 . MILV`s . Simpson Custom Manifold Race Exhaust . xHP transmission stage 3 . VT engine mounts . BC RA coilovers . H&R arbs . Adjustable rear camber arms . Ultra Racing front strut brace . Drexler LSD .
- pvr
- Legend
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Aggrieved rant....!
John - is there an appeal process?
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- buzyg
- Legend
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Aggrieved rant....!
Sounds like your on the wrong side of a poor rule John. Your rant is valid sir.
I for one was probably a more dangerous driver when I was younger, made more poor decisions/mistakes behind the wheel, I fortunately got away with, than I do now. Experience counts for a heck of a lot. No doubt there will come a point were the balance swings back the other way, due to mental and/or physical deterioration. My dad kept driving after he had Alzheimer's, until he left the parking break off one day and his car rolled into others. After that mum stopped him driving.
Another, in his 60s now, who scoffs at the suggestion of 65. It really has to be case by case IMHO. If you muck up or are ill/disabled at 21, you should be treated the same at 91. If you don't then just get on with life and enjoy driving.
I for one was probably a more dangerous driver when I was younger, made more poor decisions/mistakes behind the wheel, I fortunately got away with, than I do now. Experience counts for a heck of a lot. No doubt there will come a point were the balance swings back the other way, due to mental and/or physical deterioration. My dad kept driving after he had Alzheimer's, until he left the parking break off one day and his car rolled into others. After that mum stopped him driving.
Another, in his 60s now, who scoffs at the suggestion of 65. It really has to be case by case IMHO. If you muck up or are ill/disabled at 21, you should be treated the same at 91. If you don't then just get on with life and enjoy driving.
- Vornwend
- Member
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Aggrieved rant....!
I think the length of ban will be risk based. This extract from the government's fitness to drive web page on cough syncope:
"Having experienced an episode or episodes of cough syncope, a person has identified themselves as being in a higher risk group that is predisposed to cough syncope. Therefore, even if the cough syncope episode occurred during a short-lived period of increased cough (such as an episode of acute respiratory infection), this would not alter the fact that the person is then at a higher risk of experiencing an episode of cough syncope whenever they cough, regardless of the cause.
Treatment, management or resolution of the condition which caused the cough does not reduce the risk of syncope with further episodes of cough"
The last sentence is probably the key one?
On the question of how safe any of us are behind the wheel at any age I think attitude is also an important factor. No easy way for an external agency to assess that on an individual basis but maybe AI (black boxes etc) may one day be the way to determine it? Insurance companies obviously have access to lots of generalised data hence the higher costs for younger drivers etc
"Having experienced an episode or episodes of cough syncope, a person has identified themselves as being in a higher risk group that is predisposed to cough syncope. Therefore, even if the cough syncope episode occurred during a short-lived period of increased cough (such as an episode of acute respiratory infection), this would not alter the fact that the person is then at a higher risk of experiencing an episode of cough syncope whenever they cough, regardless of the cause.
Treatment, management or resolution of the condition which caused the cough does not reduce the risk of syncope with further episodes of cough"
The last sentence is probably the key one?
On the question of how safe any of us are behind the wheel at any age I think attitude is also an important factor. No easy way for an external agency to assess that on an individual basis but maybe AI (black boxes etc) may one day be the way to determine it? Insurance companies obviously have access to lots of generalised data hence the higher costs for younger drivers etc
Now: 2004 Z4 3.0i - Merlot Red
Before: VW Corrado VR6 Storm - Classic Green
Before: VW Corrado VR6 Storm - Classic Green
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- Senior Member
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- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:42 pm
Aggrieved rant....!
It really depends on the person as you guys say a lot of young drivers are bad drivers.
But old age does put your competency into question you cannot outrun ageing. I'd much rather hand up my driving gloves before being forced to because of a bad incident.
By the time I'm 65 we will have autonomous driving with zero need to drive yourself. So I have zero issues with hanging my gloves forever tbh.
But old age does put your competency into question you cannot outrun ageing. I'd much rather hand up my driving gloves before being forced to because of a bad incident.
By the time I'm 65 we will have autonomous driving with zero need to drive yourself. So I have zero issues with hanging my gloves forever tbh.
- pvr
- Legend
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Aggrieved rant....!
But that means that the one year is an arbitrary number which has no impact on the risk (i.e. you are as much of a risk at 1 year as you are at 1 month).Vornwend wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:52 pm I think the length of ban will be risk based. This extract from the government's fitness to drive web page on cough syncope:
"Having experienced an episode or episodes of cough syncope, a person has identified themselves as being in a higher risk group that is predisposed to cough syncope. Therefore, even if the cough syncope episode occurred during a short-lived period of increased cough (such as an episode of acute respiratory infection), this would not alter the fact that the person is then at a higher risk of experiencing an episode of cough syncope whenever they cough, regardless of the cause.
Treatment, management or resolution of the condition which caused the cough does not reduce the risk of syncope with further episodes of cough"
The last sentence is probably the key one?
In a way it would sure make you hesitant to "report" yourself if you have an episode for the first time ever as seeking treatment does not seem to make any difference and you just get a random length ban.
Current:
911-50 Black - unique spec
X5M - 575 hp of fun in a V8
Abarth 595 Comp.
Golf Clipper - collectors item
Z4 3.0si Black Sapphire
VW ID.3
Previous:
Z4M Silver Grey - non flimper spec (gone to Bing)
Z4 3.0 Toledo
911-50 Black - unique spec
X5M - 575 hp of fun in a V8
Abarth 595 Comp.
Golf Clipper - collectors item
Z4 3.0si Black Sapphire
VW ID.3
Previous:
Z4M Silver Grey - non flimper spec (gone to Bing)
Z4 3.0 Toledo
- Vornwend
- Member
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- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:42 pm
Aggrieved rant....!
It doesn't really say that. There are varying lengths of ban for various conditions which suggests risk reduces over time? Some conditions also have different lengths of ban depending on type of vehicle you drive - eg coach or lorry drivers sometimes have longer bans. This suggests that the risk of harm to others is also a factor in determining the length of ban.pvr wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:40 pmBut that means that the one year is an arbitrary number which has no impact on the risk (i.e. you are as much of a risk at 1 year as you are at 1 month).Vornwend wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:52 pm I think the length of ban will be risk based. This extract from the government's fitness to drive web page on cough syncope:
"Having experienced an episode or episodes of cough syncope, a person has identified themselves as being in a higher risk group that is predisposed to cough syncope. Therefore, even if the cough syncope episode occurred during a short-lived period of increased cough (such as an episode of acute respiratory infection), this would not alter the fact that the person is then at a higher risk of experiencing an episode of cough syncope whenever they cough, regardless of the cause.
Treatment, management or resolution of the condition which caused the cough does not reduce the risk of syncope with further episodes of cough"
The last sentence is probably the key one?
In a way it would sure make you hesitant to "report" yourself if you have an episode for the first time ever as seeking treatment does not seem to make any difference and you just get a random length ban.
Yes, the self reporting dilemma occurred to me too but set against that is the duty of care we all have to others and the huge risk of prosecution that you would expose yourself to should something bad happen and it then emerged that you had not reported yourself.
Now: 2004 Z4 3.0i - Merlot Red
Before: VW Corrado VR6 Storm - Classic Green
Before: VW Corrado VR6 Storm - Classic Green
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- Lifer
- Posts: 11075
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:27 pm
Aggrieved rant....!
The piece you're quoting is exactly why Im so aggrieved and mentioned no common sense Vornwend. Your quite right that the last sentence quoted which you point out is key but in that quote there is no mention of a time scale thus suggesting I'm banned for life then. I'd quite like to know where you got it from if you wouldn't mind please.Vornwend wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 6:35 pmIt doesn't really say that. There are varying lengths of ban for various conditions which suggests risk reduces over time? Some conditions also have different lengths of ban depending on type of vehicle you drive - eg coach or lorry drivers sometimes have longer bans. This suggests that the risk of harm to others is also a factor in determining the length of ban.pvr wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:40 pmBut that means that the one year is an arbitrary number which has no impact on the risk (i.e. you are as much of a risk at 1 year as you are at 1 month).Vornwend wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:52 pm I think the length of ban will be risk based. This extract from the government's fitness to drive web page on cough syncope:
"Having experienced an episode or episodes of cough syncope, a person has identified themselves as being in a higher risk group that is predisposed to cough syncope. Therefore, even if the cough syncope episode occurred during a short-lived period of increased cough (such as an episode of acute respiratory infection), this would not alter the fact that the person is then at a higher risk of experiencing an episode of cough syncope whenever they cough, regardless of the cause.
Treatment, management or resolution of the condition which caused the cough does not reduce the risk of syncope with further episodes of cough"
The last sentence is probably the key one?
In a way it would sure make you hesitant to "report" yourself if you have an episode for the first time ever as seeking treatment does not seem to make any difference and you just get a random length ban.
Yes, the self reporting dilemma occurred to me too but set against that is the duty of care we all have to others and the huge risk of prosecution that you would expose yourself to should something bad happen and it then emerged that you had not reported yourself.
The subject of reporting is an interesting one. After the first blackout on 1st November last year I put it down to a one off choking thing eating peanuts, didn't give it another thought tbh, until the 2nd one 22nd Jan this year when I looked it up and doc confirmed cough syncope. So here's the rub, a medical GP can correctly identify the issue, asminister meds to cure it which is the case yet you don't even get a 6 month ban Instead of a year even with said GP willing to declare I'm fit to drive, yet a 77yr old only one month after a stroke is ok to drive, it's crazy. Let's say I get to 21st Jan with no more incidents then have another 10 mins to midnight, it's another 6 months ban. If I dont have another for 4yrs then have one it's 6 months ban again. Where does this one year, no arguments ban come from...? It's ludicrous. The impact this is having on my new business, finances and my wife is quite heavy. I haven't submitted my licence on the grounds of the ridiculous lengths the DVLA are taking on issuing new ones once you can drive again, 6months wait is not uncommon, the hell with that. Im not driving as it's morally wrong, plus I wouldn't be insured, but why am I any more of a risk after 6 months than a year..? I'm not, I'm cured, coughing has stopped, meds are working perfectly as they're designed to do, if we're going to ignore them and the GP's what does that say about any medical intervention. Zero sense to this whole scenario.
M roady...OEM CSL’s, strut brace, Remus back boxes, ZHP
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29
MR2 MK 2
E89 35i project car...mapped 365bhp, M4 stoppers & wheels, KWV3’s, H&R front ARB, M3 front arms, strut brace Eisenmann cat back race exhaust, VRSF downpipes inbound
E89 35is
G29